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nickrose's picture
Eventide Staff
nickrose
Joined: Jan 17 2008
Posts: 3995

Adding a Swell/Volume pedal function

(Eventide Staff)
February 24, 2015 - 01:07 pm

Many people have asked that we add some volume or swell pedal functions to our pedals, probably one before the effect, and another after the effect. We are considering this for a future release.

There are a number of unclear issues here which are worthy of discussion. Nothing is simple.

1) Should such a setting be global (meaning always active), or only active on a preset by preset basis? People viewing it as a volume pedal might want it always global, whereas a swell pedal might be used on some presets and not others. We have some examples of things that can be selected as either global or preset based (mix, tempo, etc), but too many of these causes confusion.

2) If these functions can be controlled by the Expression pedal, what would happen to preset parameters controlled by the pedal - should such control be disabled when the pedal is active in volume/swell mode, or might people want both functions active at the same time ?

3) There currently is no concept in our stomps of using the Expression pedal as a general controller (it is only used to control preset parameters). Adding this might be fiddly, and would bring up the issues in (2) above.

4) Our though is that the level settings for these features should not be saved at powerdown, so as to be sure the pedal will have full output when next switched on. An apparently dead pedal will cause a flood of unhappy customers.

5) It appears to us that there is little need for manual control of these levels, as it would be almost always driven by some sort of pedal or controller. This also relates to (4) above.

So, the easiest (and hence quickest) way to add this feature would be to make it global (always active) and restrict it to MIDI control only. Would this be useful ?

spaceJam
Joined: Jan 21 2015
Posts: 170
February 24, 2015 - 03:23 pm

I'm thinking in a simple approach with the Timefactor in mind. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people might want a more "real" volume pedal embedded in the Stompbox by controlling it with an Expression Pedal.

It will take a simple switch stomp, similar to "rpts", to activate and deactivate.

User can select either (rpts or swll) to use in "Play mode" by pressing the middle switch.

Decay time, from 0 to 10+ secs, set by the user in the globals menu.

MIDI, sure, why not.

Make it global.

robleishman's picture
robleishman
Joined: Dec 4 2013
Posts: 49
February 25, 2015 - 02:04 pm

Midi control as described would be handy, however, maybe i'm missing something, but could the input gain parameter by controlled to same way as the preset parameters are controlled? ie hotknob values)?

If so, couldn't a post gain parameter be added and controlled in the same manner, this would give us pre and post volume control using an expression pedal.

On a side note, it would also be swell if there was some way to edit the value curve of an expression pedal. something simple like 0.0 volts = hotknob val 0 - 1.0 volts = hotknob val 20 - 5.0 volts = hotknob 100. This would allow us to create a smoother expression curve for whatever expression pedal we are using, i've always wondered why this isn't a standard parameter on digital pedals.

nickrose's picture
Eventide Staff
nickrose
Joined: Jan 17 2008
Posts: 3995
February 24, 2015 - 04:34 pm

Thanks for your reply, but it illustrates some of he problems we face:

1) There is no available switch to activate it (on all presets), so it will probably be on all the time, or on a preset by preset basis.

Although, maybe you mean is that you could cycle the switch by pressing it twice to select "Swell" mode  (would this be too fiddly ?) - it would go normal -> rpt -> swell - > normal..

2) If it was on, would it also control parameters in the normal way ? But maybe if you used the switch operation described above, when it was in swell mode it could defeat all other expression functions

This might work if the cycling mode was not too confusing.

spaceJam
Joined: Jan 21 2015
Posts: 170
February 24, 2015 - 06:19 pm

No, I meant to give the middle switch the following options within the System Menu (Globals/Utility):

MIDDLE SWITCH:

SWELL | RPTS

I don't see why other parameters (besides mix/decay of course) might change when using "Swell".

LA Keys's picture
LA Keys
Joined: Feb 10 2015
Posts: 109
February 24, 2015 - 07:11 pm

Sniff, there's no middle switch on my H9s  Crying

LA

spaceJam
Joined: Jan 21 2015
Posts: 170
February 25, 2015 - 01:06 pm

Don't worry. There's always MIDI.

nickrose's picture
Eventide Staff
nickrose
Joined: Jan 17 2008
Posts: 3995
February 25, 2015 - 02:41 pm

spaceJam:

I don't see why other parameters (besides mix/decay of course) might change when using "Swell".

My concern is that many presets may have expression pedal assignments to various knob parameters - the issue is whether these should still work when using the expression pedal for swell.

robleishman's picture
robleishman
Joined: Dec 4 2013
Posts: 49
February 25, 2015 - 03:02 pm

Why not? This is how the current parameter system works right? chances are if you need a swell, your not going to have a wah effect at the same time right, so you could make 2 versions of the preset, 1 with swell hotknob values another with filter values...

nickrose's picture
Eventide Staff
nickrose
Joined: Jan 17 2008
Posts: 3995
February 25, 2015 - 05:11 pm

OK - we've given this some thought and listened to your suggestions and this is our current thinking:

1) There will be system parameters for MIDI control of InSwell and OutSwell. Aux switch control will NOT be supported (on/off only - not very useful).

2) There will be parameters to enable/disable Expression pedal control of InSwell and OutSwell. These can be saved either with each preset or globally, depending on new settings on the Global menu in system mode. When Expression pedal is enabled, any pedal controlled parameters will also be controlled.

3) The hardest part - how to  control the parameters in (2). We're a bit short of spare controls on the pedals, AND we want them to work the same way on both H9 and Factors - this means we can use neither middle switch nor HotKnob. Sorry. This is a bit fiddly, but we can't think of a better way - it does at least simplify gain setting on H9.

Our best effort for this is to change the way the current gain settings work. If you press and hold the left switch, it will go to Active mode and bring up the current Preset Outgain value, which you can adjust with the encoder.

H9 Only. Pressing and holding the encoder will bring up Input Gain value, which you can adjust with the encoder.

Pressing and holding the encoder again will bring up InSwell, which you can enable/disable with the encoder.

Pressing and holding the encoder again will bring up OutSwell, which you can enable/disable with the encoder.

Pressing and holding the encoder again will return to Preset Outgain.

After 5 seconds of no changes, or if any other switch is pressed, the unit will return to normal, restoring the prior Active/Bypass state.

Some new additional details:

1) If global is ON, the swell will be always enabled. If it is off, it is enabled on a preset by preset basis as described above.

2) If global is off, the swell will be reset to full level on loading a preset with swell disabled.

robleishman's picture
robleishman
Joined: Dec 4 2013
Posts: 49
February 25, 2015 - 05:22 pm

I'm picking up what your putting down...

This all seems reasonable to me.

Thanks for asking the forum about this it is so cool to know what may be coming up in the next update.

cowudders
Joined: Jan 23 2008
Posts: 38
February 26, 2015 - 06:09 am

what a great addition!!

acsewalk
Joined: Mar 20 2014
Posts: 27
February 26, 2015 - 11:39 am

Apologies, not sure I'm grasping the concept of what you're talking about adding.  Is this to act as an "auto swell" type feature?  

gkellum's picture
Eventide Staff
gkellum
Joined: Mar 2 2011
Posts: 2013
February 26, 2015 - 11:47 am
acsewalk:

Apologies, not sure I'm grasping the concept of what you're talking about adding.  Is this to act as an "auto swell" type feature?  

No, Nick is talking about adding a way to make either the input gain or the output gain controllable with an expression pedal or MIDI.

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 761
February 26, 2015 - 01:09 pm

I never got the chance to chime in on this design-in-progress, but my reply would've been nearly identical to nickrose / Eventide's conclusions.  Very versatile, and well thought out.

The only small item that hit me was the exclusion of Aux switch control.  Non-essential, for the most part.  But if the Aux Switches had the same treatment as KB0-KB9 control [MIN VAL and MAX VAL], they could be used to toggle between two preset InSwell / OutSwell level values.  Just a thought.

nickrose's picture
Eventide Staff
nickrose
Joined: Jan 17 2008
Posts: 3995
February 26, 2015 - 02:26 pm

We'd thought about what you suggest, but could not think of a clean way to set min/max values on the 'Factors - these have knobs which can select them - whereas the swells do not. One might think of using the pedal, but this is already used to select the mins and maxes.

Plus, it was already getting difficult....

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 761
February 26, 2015 - 04:25 pm

That makes a whole lot of sense, Nick (difficulty setting the Aux values).  I was thinking about another 'feature sell', but not so much about how to actually implement it.

Using the EXP PED for MIN & MAX values would be awkward and inaccurate, at best.  And the encoders / HotKnob are doing enough already.  Respectfully submitted & withdrawn.

styrioci
Joined: Sep 22 2009
Posts: 72
February 28, 2015 - 06:32 am

sounds great, controlling swells like another parameter on preset basis sounds like lot of fun in combination with other parameters controlled by exp pedal

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 761
February 28, 2015 - 07:26 am

styrioci:

sounds great, controlling swells like another parameter on preset basis sounds like lot of fun in combination with other parameters controlled by exp pedal

I think this was a key decision, and the main one I was hoping to have implemented.  Among the many other applications across the 'Factor / H9 algorithms, InSwell is one component missing for accurate XP-300 Space Station presets (for example).

I'm curious to see how it all interacts with envelope-controlled effects, or pitch shifts and mix.  We all know how useful this is going to be with delay lines.  But parallel parameter control as a per-preset option is as versatile as it gets.

badmelonfarmer's picture
badmelonfarmer
Joined: Jan 26 2009
Posts: 635
March 04, 2015 - 08:27 pm

Good point regarding existing envelope effects.

given a lot of posts asking about "Auto Swell"... Where possible / makes sense... I think people would also like a envelope control where a physical expression pedal is not present or needed... Obviously this would clash with some other envelope controlled effects.

i guess another option would be to build a dedicated algorithm arround auto swells... I am sure you guys could create some cool things arround filters, shimmers, crystals etc.

Etienne
Joined: Jun 11 2012
Posts: 7

By the way, is this

November 18, 2017 - 07:11 am

By the way, is this modification (swell/volume through the expression pedal) included in the software 3.5.0[4] ? or I miss something ?

I really want to remove my volume pedal in my pedal chain...

Thanks

 

nickrose's picture
Eventide Staff
nickrose
Joined: Jan 17 2008
Posts: 3995

Etienne wrote:

November 18, 2017 - 07:59 am

Etienne wrote:

By the way, is this modification (swell/volume through the expression pedal) included in the software 3.5.0[4] ? or I miss something ?

No - this was added as an update. You should update to the latest software.

da7thson
Joined: Nov 10 2017
Posts: 1

Volume

November 29, 2017 - 06:50 am

For me a good enough solution would be a Volume algo, that you program as a preset which basically controls the volume via an expression pedal. I can recall that patch via midi if i need a volume pedal. Job done.

 

i would need to pre / post feature on the patch then i can have it at the end of the chain or at the start.

 

simples.

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 761

Parked Tremolo

November 29, 2017 - 09:33 am

da7thson wrote:

For me a good enough solution would be a Volume algo, that you program as a preset which basically controls the volume via an expression pedal. I can recall that patch via midi if i need a volume pedal. Job done.  i would need to pre / post feature on the patch then i can have it at the end of the chain or at the start. 

simples

Something like this should work for you:

With my Roland EV-5's, most of the swell control is in the upper 2/3rds of the pedal throw.  It's possible to snap between two fixed volume levels, with a 'parked wah' position (toggling the left Active / Bypass footswitch).