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CC Set parameter controlling mix and other params

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harmamusic
Joined: May 31 2014
Posts: 51

CC Set parameter controlling mix and other params

June 05, 2016 - 10:40 am

I just got a BOSS ES-8 and it's working great to change patches on, send midi clock to and activate/disable my H9s.
After selecting a patch I want to increase the mix by sending a CC.
I've tried sending CC 22 (set parameter 1) with a certain value. Also tried sending CC15 which I have set to expression control.
Somehow I can't seem to change the mix value via CC? Which set parameter corresponds to the Mix?

Thanks.

JCR
Joined: Feb 13 2014
Posts: 65
June 05, 2016 - 11:57 am

Since firmware H9_5.0.1 the H9 has a problem handling midi data received from an external device like the Boss ES-8 after sending a program change. After sending a program change the H9 init the selected preset. During preset init (takes about 300ms) no other midi data is processed!. So if the Boss ES-8 sends a program change and two CC messages for setting params only the pc is handled and the other midi data is ignored. Before firmware H9_5.0.1 this was not a problem. Eventide is aware of this behaviour from december 2014. I have mentioned this in this forum and in a mail to support. On feb. 2 2016 they answered:

"Please let him know that we are aware of the problem and it is in our backlog to fix it.  It’s a hard problem to solve though as it involves timing issues which can be difficult to reproduce in a debugging environment, but thank you for mentioning the problem again.  We’ve forwarded it on to the developer responsible for the H9 OS in the hopes that he’ll push it up higher in priority in the backlog."

Let's hope the new firmware which is due for end of this month (Sculpt algo) has finally a fix for this...

harmamusic
Joined: May 31 2014
Posts: 51
June 06, 2016 - 05:59 am

Thanks for your reply!

It's good to know that its not related to the ES-8 but is an issue in the OS of the H9.
I've currently copied the preset and changed the mix value in there but it would be much easier if I could send an extra CC message to set it.
Luckily the program change and expression CC message work together when I activate the patch on the ES-8 as I can use the expression pedal to control the H9 via midi.
I'm not sure what has changed in the OS area between firmware versions but something like this should just work.

harmamusic
Joined: May 31 2014
Posts: 51
June 07, 2016 - 03:16 am

Question I have is why I can send a program change to the H9 and disable it with a CC #11 from the Boss ES-8 in one preset of the ES-8? 

That should be the same behavior right? 

Just for debug purposes? Which CC message should I "normally" send to set the Mix value? Is that CC #22? 

JCR
Joined: Feb 13 2014
Posts: 65
June 07, 2016 - 07:58 am

CC22 is the default midi control change message for setting parameter 1, which is the mix for a lot of presets, but not for all. It depends on the algo. You can set it however to every CC value you want it to be. Be aware that for now, with the firmware midi timing issues, you have to wait about 350 msec after sending a program change to the H9 before sending CC messages to successfully set parameters. So sending a PC, wait 350 msec and than send CC messages will do the trick, but the big problem is that the Boss ES-5 and ES-8, like most midi controllers, are not capable of integrating midi delays between PC's and CC's.

Eventide speaks of timing issues, maybe disabling the H9 takes very little midi processing power and thats why it works. Enjoy, for my H9's it does not work...

To Eventide: Please fix this asap! It has worked in the past and should work again...

nickrose's picture
Eventide Staff
nickrose
Joined: Jan 17 2008
Posts: 4350
June 07, 2016 - 08:19 am

Thos is fixed in the next release, due on a month or so.

 

JCR
Joined: Feb 13 2014
Posts: 65
June 07, 2016 - 08:23 am

nickrose wrote:

Thos is fixed in the next release, due on a month or so.

 

GREAT!!! Thanks.

harmamusic
Joined: May 31 2014
Posts: 51
June 07, 2016 - 10:14 am

nickrose wrote:

Thos is fixed in the next release, due on a month or so.

Great to hear! Thanks for confirming this!

JCR
Joined: Feb 13 2014
Posts: 65
June 23, 2016 - 07:00 pm

nickrose wrote:

Thos is fixed in the next release, due on a month or so.

 

 

Sorry nickrose, the midi timing fix for sending CC's after a PC does not work for all algo's. Yes, there are some algo's now you can send two midi CC's after a PC to set parameters, but I have found several algo's that still does not process CC messages after a PC.

The ones that still not process CC's after an PC that I have found so far just after a quick check are: Tremolopan, Chorus, Phaser, Flanger, vibrato, q-wah, undulator, tape echo, digital delay, vintage delay and mod delay! I have not checked all algo's, no time...

For all named algo's I have send a PC to select the preset and one CC message to set parameter 1 to 0 (zero) and that failed. Only the preset was selected, no processing for parameter 1, it was as it was saved.

The algo's that past the test so far are: micropitch, rotary, ultratap, hall.

So it seems the midi timing is still not ok for a lot of algo's after init. I realy hope this will be fixed a.s.a.p...

JCR
Joined: Feb 13 2014
Posts: 65
June 23, 2016 - 07:04 pm

nickrose wrote:

Thos is fixed in the next release, due on a month or so.

 

I forgot to mention I am running firmware version H9_5.4.0[0].

Adamixoye
Joined: Jan 30 2013
Posts: 61
June 29, 2016 - 12:41 pm

I have also had this problem with MIDI Designer on an iPad running into a Zivix PUC+ as my MIDI source.  Version 5.4.0 did not seem to fix it.  I have not tested as a function of algorithm.

sanchezguitar
Joined: Sep 19 2015
Posts: 2
January 15, 2018 - 11:04 pm

I have a Boss ES-8. It works great changing Patches, Sending Midi clock, Activate/Deactivate, Expression, etc..  However, I am having difficulties sending midi CC# along with a midi PC command, like illustrated in the attached image. In essence, I am trying to load Preset 21 with a Set Parameter (Mix).  The H9 will change to the corresponding Preset but will not adjust the Mix accordingly.

Any suggestions? 

nickrose's picture
Eventide Staff
nickrose
Joined: Jan 17 2008
Posts: 4350
January 17, 2018 - 09:45 am

During the time it takes to load a program the unit may also be processing MIDI messages, so it is possible that your CC is received and then the parameter is overwritten by the loaded program. If you send (essentially) simultaneous MIDI messages you can't really be sure in which order they will be handled. Sorry.

It looks as though you should save the required settings as a preset, and then load it in the normal way.

 

 

JCR
Joined: Feb 13 2014
Posts: 65
January 18, 2018 - 04:46 am

If that is the problem than hold (buffer) the incomming midi messages on the H9 until the preset is completely loaded before executing them. It worked ok until firmware H9_5.0.1. Please Eventide: fix this...

Adamixoye
Joined: Jan 30 2013
Posts: 61
January 18, 2018 - 09:02 am
JCR wrote:

If that is the problem than hold (buffer) the incomming midi messages on the H9 until the preset is completely loaded before executing them. It worked ok until firmware H9_5.0.1. Please Eventide: fix this...

^This! I don’t recall the exact version history but I find it hard to believe that there isn’t a reasonably simple solution for this on Eventide’s end. Furthermore, many devices that send MIDI will send messages in this manner; it’s not an unreasonable request.

neonshadows
Joined: Jan 11 2011
Posts: 4
January 07, 2019 - 05:09 am

I am having this problem on my Timefactor, but not on my Space or Modfactor, both of which can receive and act upon PC and CC messages sent simultaneously. My DD-500 (similar style of delay pedal) can receive and act upon simultaneous PC and CC messages, so it would seem not be something specific to delay. I am also using an ES-8. Does anyone have a workaround?