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freeze function like EH superego on H9?

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borisinger
Joined: Jan 19 2014
Posts: 38

freeze function like EH superego on H9?

June 27, 2014 - 07:40 am

Hello,

do you think it will be possible to realize an algorithm for a multiple freeze function like the EH superego pedal?

http://www.electroharmonix.com/products/superego

I'd love to sell my superego and buy a second H9 (no more space on my pedal board for hand bag on airplane)...

possible?

b.

pauliusmm
Joined: Oct 25 2009
Posts: 68
June 29, 2014 - 10:47 am

Superego is a very cool effect. I bet Eventide could make even better and more tweakable freeze effect. My favorite part of Superego was the mode where it automatically freezes a chord you play until you play next chord - then it morphs into next chord . Really great effect and kinda new way to play guitar, because it sustains chords forever.

chadwhipped
Joined: Jun 21 2017
Posts: 6

Super Ego please

July 02, 2017 - 06:04 am

Can anyone replicate this EHX superego with thier H9? Is it possible??

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 762

Frozen Switch Contacts

July 03, 2017 - 05:04 pm

chadwhipped wrote:

Can anyone replicate this EHX superego with thier H9? Is it possible??

In about half of the reverb & H9 Special algorithms, you can emulate the Momentary and Latch freeze modes. You'll need an Aux switch or expression pedal, to get in & out of the H9 FREEZE / INF parameter values.

But you can't  currently simulate the glissando or Auto mode of the SuperEgo (with a single algorithm).  What you end up with is closer to the EHX Freeze pedal functions.  Many examples are scattered throughout the forum here.

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 762

Previously Frozen - Do Not Thaw At Room Temperature

November 28, 2017 - 07:18 pm

Necro-Update:  I skipped the original SuperEgo pedal, but recently added a SuperEgo+ (alongside a Freeze pedal, H9s, etc.).  I haven't logged many hours in the woodshed with this, but GLISS and AUTO mode emulations remain elusive.  LAYERS are somewhat limited to control by technique.  Some SE+ modes can be simulated perfectly; including built-in FX.  Other mode setups: impossible, or difficult with workarounds.

As an aside, I wrote:

For AUTO mode, Eventide would need to divert the audio input signal to trigger (pulse) a "buffer sample" (automating the process below).  I don't know how you could fit adjustable THRESHOLDs between the H9 algorithms' FREEZE - INF values.  It may be a matter of choosing a fixed THRESHOLD value that covered most input conditions.  Audio in samples the delay buffer, then immediately snaps back to a FREEZE variation.

This preset is more like the SE+ LATCH mode, and the MOMENT mode (using HotSwitch control).  But using a soft-touch switch, the techniques feel organic, and interactive.  THRESHOLD is bottomed out, to pick up most any input signal.  Other than [H9] DECAY, most parameters are at neutral settings.  ATTACK and RELEASE (SE+ 'DECAY') mirror functions in both units.  OMNI-RATIO adjustments push the H9 into another class of effects.

Select between momentarily sampling the buffer for your frozen note, or latching between a frozen state, and a 'rest' state.  Both options have their musical usefulness.  Use an Aux switch mapped to the expression pedal, or an Aux switch mapped to the HotSwitch / Performance switch function.

Momentary Action:

Aux Switch -> Expression Pedal Heel:  DECAY  FREEZE

Aux Switch -> Expression Pedal Toe:   DECAY  0.1 S

Latching Action:

HotSwitch = OFF  DECAY  FREEZE

HotSwitch = ON   DECAY  0.1 S

In either action, holding an 'ON' state - with silent input - samples that silence into FREEZE (effectively erasing it).  H9's DECAY parameter can be increased to 1.0 - 2.0 Seconds, to simulate the SE+ DECAY parameter.  Too much H9 DECAY, and the 'LAYERS' will begin to overlap in FREEZE mode.

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 762

Instant P&W - Just Add Expression

December 01, 2017 - 06:46 am

SE+ Fake The Auto preset wrote:

The Aux switch control in the preset above serves a couple of purposes.  The switch action toggles between two fixed values, and that's needed for the SuperEgo+ emulation.

Default to FREEZE, 'sample' the note playing, then snap back to FREEZE.

But when you release the switch determines the FREEZE output level(s).  FREEZE mixing by tap timing.

  • Rapid switch release, and you'll capture a stronger signal; closer to your note attack. 
  • Wait longer to release the switch, and you'll capture some of the note decay.
  • Switch during muted input to 'erase', or freeze inharmonic transients.

If LAYERS are the focus of a SE+ simulation, it's better to break out the expression pedal.  Yes, that brings a BLACKHOLE-ish reverb component with it.  A simple swap of the Heel & Toe values - with the change to expression pedal - turns that preset into an ambience generator with full-range mixing.

Expression Pedal Heel:  DECAY  0.5 S

Expression Pedal Toe:   DECAY  FREEZE

The DECAY default was increased to 1/2 second.  That, along with the larger SIZE for thickness, produces a small room ambience.  It also smooths out the abrupt contrast between 100% FREEZE, and 100% UN-FREEZE.

Moving the expression pedal away from Heel, the room reverb expands.  Depending on DECAY & SIZE interaction, you'll begin to add true 'LAYERS' around 8 - 10 - 12 Seconds of DECAY.  In the area closer to Toe, it hits the ultimate LAYER generator [INF].  That's the equivalent of an SE+ LAYER knob set fully clockwise.

Just beyond that, at fully Toe ... FREEZE.  One smooth technique is to hover in the upper half of the expression pedal throw.  Notes are blended between INF, FREEZE, and the mega-seconds reverb area.  When you need to pull back on sustaining output & levels, just 'pull back' on the expression pedal.

mistercharlie's picture
mistercharlie
Joined: Mar 26 2017
Posts: 26

Is there any practical

December 05, 2017 - 09:03 am

Is there any practical difference in having the hotswitch settings reversed? i.e. with the “freeze” state set to hotswitch on, and 0.1 sec set to hotswitch off?

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 762

Degrees of FREEZE

December 09, 2017 - 05:20 am

Sorry for the delayed response.  Rough week ...

mistercharlie wrote:

Is there any practical difference in having the hotswitch settings reversed? i.e. with the “freeze” state set to hotswitch on, and 0.1 sec set to hotswitch off?

There sure is.  It's all in what you want to accomplish, and how you want to engage an effect in live performance.  In general terms, the advantage lies in the ability to latch a FREEZE effect, and play "dry" over the top of it.  (The 2nd feature being ... the HotSwitch effectively alternates between two-presets-in-one.)

The "hidden" advantages are found in how FREEZE / INF is implemented in a particular algorithm.  Each Reverb algo (as well as some of the H9 Special offerings) routes the frozen signal in slightly different manner.  So your "dry" could also have delay, reverb, modulation ... with FREEZE as the switched option.

Space Update Release Notes - Changes in Version 4.0.0(6) wrote:

INF and FREEZE options added to 9 of the 12 SPACE algorithms. 

  • INF causes the reverb to persist indefinitely while continuously layering in the input signal. 
  • FREEZE kicks the reverb into infinite decay mode while locking out the reverb input. The dry signal is routed in parallel with the 'frozen' reverb section. 
  • Each algorithm imparts its own flavor to the FREEZE function, allowing the parallel dry signal to be effected with another reverberated sound, delay, modulation, etc. 
  • INF and FREEZE are accessed by Parameter Knobs and therefore can be controlled via HotSwtich, Expression Pedal, or MIDI.

Details on the specific action of the INF and FREEZE function for each of the 9 algorithms:

  • Hall: INF and FREEZE on all 3 Decay knobs. Use the Decay Knob to select INF or Freeze for the entire (full bandwidth) reverb. This allows you to solo over the reverb with a dry parallel signal. Use the Xnob or Ynob to freeze individual either low or high frequency bands of the reverb and solo over the frozen reverb band with a reverberated parallel signal.
  • Plate: INF and FREEZE on the Decay knob. This allows for a Plate slap sound over the frozen reverb.
  • DualVerb: INF and FREEZE on both Decay knobs (Xnob for B-decay). Also, during FREEZE the A/B mixer on FxMix is post for the frozen reverb (it is usually a pre-reverb input mixer). This allows for a myriad of options between freezing one reverb, or both, and mixing between the two.
  • Reverse: INF and FREEZE on the Size knob, which affect the forward reverb. This allows for reverse reverb climbs with feedback delay all in parallel with the frozen reverb section.
  • ModEchoVerb: FREEZE added to the Decay knob. The signal is rerouted during FREEZE to allow for parallel modulation and/or delay over the frozen section. We also added a Reverb OFF option to the Decay knob, so you can have delay and/or modulation alone.
  • BlackHole: INF and FREEZE on the FxMix knob.
  • TremoloVerb: INF and FREEZE on the Decay knob. We also made the EQ post reverb so the EQ will now affect the frozen sound (the manual says it's supposed to be anyway, but it wasn't).
  • DynaVerb: INF and FREEZE on the Decay knob, so you can duck, expand, or gate an infinite reverb with your input signal.
  • Shimmer: PITCH FREEZE and PTCH+VRB FRZ on the FxMix knob. PITCH FREEZE locks out the pitch shifters, but feeds the reverb, allowing you to freeze the Shimmer pitch climb at opportune times. PTCH+VRB FREEZE freezes everything, pitch and reverb for dry soloing on top of the frozen reverb.

In the H9, you can create a SuperEgo+ / Freeze effect, plus other effects in parallel.  So, you can select:

  • Your switching preference [momentary 'sampling' of the FREEZE, or latched LAYER overdubs]
  • The direction of the switch [FREEZE as the default, or FREEZE as the switched option]
  • How "dry" your "dry signal" will be [pure dry signal, or dry w/FX, plus the FREEZE overlay]
  •  

    I'll follow up with a couple of practical examples.  But - looking back at that algorithm implementation list - the creative choices jump out at you. Virtually a multi-effect, with FREEZE options at every turn.

    brock's picture
    brock
    Joined: Jan 3 2010
    Posts: 762

    Yeah, But It's A Dry FREEZE ...

    December 09, 2017 - 05:36 pm

    Here's an example of the 'standard' HotSwitch effect, but with a twist.  It takes advantage of this algorithm's parameter set; enabling dry+FREEZE in parallel, or INF-type layering FREEZE.  It's a matter of using the "wrong" algo, for selecting just the "right" effect.

    HotSwitch - OFF

    This preset starts out 100% dry, because no signal has been frozen yet.  Any "shimmer" here is limited to the slight detuning, and the upper-frequency sheen over the frozen signal.

     

    HotSwitch - ON

    The HotSwitch latches into a layering / freeze mode.  This is where to 'capture' the background FREEZE.  You can add up impossible fretboard leaps in a sequence.  Eventually (over a long period), frozen input will degrade.  Newer notes take precedence, in a limited sense.  When you tap the HotSwitch back to OFF, that's both the 'capture point', and stored signal level of the background FREEZE.

     

    HotSwitch - OFF (subsequent toggling)

    At this point, you're back to 'dry' again, but with the captured layers droning in the background.  If you're running a y-cable for expression pedal + the Aux HotSwitch [or even 2 Aux Switches], the expression pedal mappings remain free to exploit.  Programmable, variable, and live control over the effected signal, whether the HotSwitch is in the ON or OFF latched position.

    Expression Pedal Heel:  SIZE  25  DELAY  1000mS

    Expression Pedal Toe:    SIZE  50   DELAY  50mS

    An esoteric EXP PED mapping, to be sure, but exaggerated here to highlight its effect.  The long DELAY at Heel makes for a 'breathing' recirculation with frozen staccato notes, and smears the FREEZE with legato input.  Pushing towards Toe will 'bend' the medium room 'verb, and drop the DELAY to minimum.

    A few pedal punches will disintegrate the FREEZE into lower frequency noise.  That also helps to shorten the fade-out time of the frozen signal.  When HotSwitch = ON, that 'room-bending' from an expression pedal can be captured in the frozen loop.

    brock's picture
    brock
    Joined: Jan 3 2010
    Posts: 762

    Relatively Dry Conditions

    December 10, 2017 - 05:06 am

    Now, the following preset is an example of the "hidden" advantages:  Dry, with added live effects, alongside a parallel FREEZE.  At the default settings, a one-second DECAY separates the reverb from the 1.5 second ECHO, on a handful of repeats.  A touch of higher frequency sheen & room girth are added.

    HotSwitch OFF

     

    HotSwitch ON

    Latch the HotSwitch ON within the one-second DECAY window, to capture a frozen signal.  Your dry signal will still be augmented by the DELAY settings, with FREEZE droning on in the background.

    Expression Pedal Heel:  FLANGR MIX  0

    Expression Pedal Toe:   FLANGR MIX  100

    For a more practical expression pedal routing, I targeted the (very nice) flanger effect onboard.  It's routed in a way that effects the ECHO and repeats, while 'dry' remains dry.  MODRATE is fairly slow, to match up against the lengthy ECHO time.  With HotSwitch OFF, it will sweep both the reverb and delay.

    Unlatching HotSwitch ON to HotSwitch OFF, FREEZE will DECAY quickly, with a few trailing ECHO repeats.

    brock's picture
    brock
    Joined: Jan 3 2010
    Posts: 762

    Shattering Ice Crystals

    December 11, 2017 - 06:27 pm

    This example combines many characteristics from the presets above.   Dry+multi-FX, an INF component that's not really infinite, and sensitive toggling to FREEZE, with a dry signal overlay.  It's a FREEZE-type effect that stays out of the way; switchable to an in-your-face FREEZE effect to perform over.

    HotSwitch OFF

    At default, the dry signal is followed by a one-measure PRE DELAY.  LOW- / HIGH-LEVEL and LOW / HIGH DECAY tweak the EQ & contour of the main DECAY / SIZE hall parameters.  The result is a boomy impact that fragments into an upper frequency wash.  Like biting into a SweeTart [tm].

     

    HotSwitch ON

    There are three places in the HALL algo to target INF / FREEZE:  LOW DECAY, HIGH DECAY, or the overall 'master' DECAY parameter (used here).  Latching the HotSwitch ON immediately locks in a strong FREEZE signal.  Dry can be played over the FREEZE drone.  Switching back to HotSwitch OFF, there's a smooth fade, followed by disintegration back to the pre-delayed reverb default.

    Expression Pedal Heel:  MOD-LEVEL  0

    Expression Pedal Toe:   MOD-LEVEL  100

    An under-rated modulation effect here.  It seems to me that MOD-LEVEL changes more than just the level of random modulation.  In any case, it's a great effect.  It seems to 'bend' reverb and FREEZE signals, but tonality can remain centered (or not?).  I've set the expression pedal mapping for a full range of subtle to extreme modulation FX.  Varying the MOD-LEVEL will also hasten the DECAY of any current reverb / FREEZE FX.

    AlwaysLittle
    Joined: Sep 23 2017
    Posts: 1

    Thank you for these great freeze presets, brock

    December 11, 2017 - 08:54 pm

    I recently played a song circle, where I improvised a freeze setting from the Carnegie Hall preset.  Then I played part I from "Shine On You Crazy Diamond."  There were many bits of exploded skull around the room afterwards.

    I narrowed the pedal sweep on the decay parameter: MIN around 2 seconds, MAX just at FREEZE, giving me a nice broad pedal travel for INF.  The CH preset worked surprisingly well as the template.

    I shared my experience over at the Facebook group, and directly a curious player towards your examples here.

    Thanks again.

    brock's picture
    brock
    Joined: Jan 3 2010
    Posts: 762

    Polterg-Ice

    December 13, 2017 - 08:24 pm

    It's good to know that people are applying these concepts, and even better ... modifying the presets, and making them their own.  That's the whole point of this 'graphics & prose' approach - as opposed to simply dumping out canned preset downloads.

    I'm constantly surprised by the the depths that you can push these algorithms to, regardless of (or maybe because of) any parameter limitations.  Take a general effect type like FREEZE, then customize the result with careful algorithm & parameter choices.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    HotSwitch OFF

    I should drop in another preset here.  Along the same lines of 'DELAY+MOD FREEZE' above, but with reverse reverb sweeps, delay repeats (accents from LATE DRY), and really INF freeze from the SIZE parameter.

     

    HotSwitch ON

    Since this is a building reverse reverb, you'll want to 'capture' a later section of the buffer.  In this example, closer to 2 seconds after note input.  But capturing any lower level signal is still going to build ... INF-initely.

    There's a strange, subtle bending of INF / FREEZE pitch here, even with no MOD-LEVEL added.  If you want to create a latched Wall Of Sound, this is it.  It will 'morph' back nicely when you unlatch HotSwitch to OFF.  The reverse reverb / delay are available throughout; with or without the INF freeze and layering.

    Expression Pedal Heel:  MOD-LEVEL  0

    Expression Pedal Toe:   MOD-LEVEL  100

    ... because I'm a sucker for dynamically blended modulation effects.

    brock's picture
    brock
    Joined: Jan 3 2010
    Posts: 762

    Frozen In Time [Sequence]

    December 17, 2017 - 06:51 am

    An unconventional choice for a FREEZE simulation.

    At default, this preset loops a sequence of resonant 'NOTES'; centering around an [E] tonality.  There's a very long fade time (around 40 repetitions with FB:1  90 FEEDBACK), before the sequence eventually decays to silence.  Similar to a TimeFactor REPEAT function, with more control over the buffer capture.

    You can easily change the sequence / tonality in the NOTE GRID view:

    HotSwitch OFF

    The slight, negative RESONANCE will make the individual 'notes' of the sequence stand out with staccato input.  But you can easily create a SE+ type FREEZE wash with legato input & softened attack. New input will be layered over the sequence; similar to an H9 INF setting.

     

    HotSwitch ON

    Locking in the FB1 FREEZE value allows dry input over the frozen sequence.  It will loop the levels from the point where the sequence was originally 'captured'.  Switching between HotSwitch ON & OFF refreshes that sequence with additional input layers, and allows for limited editing of the sequence.

     

    Big Caveat wrote:

    It's close to impossible to get FB1 FREEZE to behave as the HotSwitch ON value.  There are just too many values crowded into the midpoint of the FEEDBACK parameter.  You may initially lock in FB1 FREEZE, and even save the preset as such.  But eventually, FB1 FREEZE will shift to FB1:  99, or FB2:  1, destroying the FREEZE FX.

    You may get lucky, and get the parameter to 'stick'.  If frustration takes over, use the alternate FB2  FREEZE value, fully clockwise on the parameter dial.  It will degrade your repeating pattern, away from the sequence that was originally input.  That's not necessarily a bad thing.  This alternate FREEZE can be used to great effect, and will become a non-issue in SuperEgo+ background washes.

     

    HotSwitch ON [Alternate FREEZE Value]

    Expression Pedal Heel:  FB1:  90  RESONANCE  -2  REVERB  5

    Expression Pedal Toe:    FB1:  10  RESONANCE  2  REVERB  20

    The expression pedal will override the current FREEZE setting, as both actions share FEEDBACK control.  But the pedal also acts as near-instant decay of the frozen sequence, and a method for 'chopping up' the sequence in progress.  REVERB is slightly increased, to smooth out the transitions.

    But it also acts as a unique, warbling modulation, as it shifts from negative RESONANCE, through none, and onto positive RESONANCE.  That warble can be imprinted on the repeating sequence.  Take a look at the following link for more information on RESONATOR 'modulation':

    https://www.eventideaudio.com/community/forum/stompboxes/resonator-otherworldly-wah-filter-sweeps

     

    At full Toe, this preset is almost a 'normal' reverb, with an overlay of several quickly decaying loops.  At midpoint, moderate REVERB, and controllable sequence fades.  For modulation effects, there's some advantage to using two Aux switches here [one for HotSwitch OFF & ON; the other mapped to the expression pedal].  Quick shifts between Heel & Toe create the most watery modulation FX.