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bohan's picture
Eventide Staff
bohan
Joined: Jan 9 2018
Posts: 887

H9 Control 4.0 is now in beta testing

bohan (Eventide Staff)
April 16, 2021 - 07:14 am
Eventide would like to invite everyone to join our beta test of H9 Control 4.0, in which we removed the algorithm store, refreshed the UI, and fixed some bugs.
 
As announced last year (https://www.eventideaudio.com/one-h9-rule-them-all), Eventide has stopped producing the standard H9 and H9 Core, and will release a new version of H9 Control and retire the algorithm store. We offer a special Max Out Upgrade promotion indefinitely for the foreseeable future. Any purchased algorithms will count toward the upgrade. Visit the H9 Max Out Upgrade Page to verify your discounted upgrade price: https://www.eventideaudio.com/store/upgrade-h9
 
We will continue to manufacture the H9 Max, and provide support for the H9, H9 Core and H9 Max. That's why we'd like to invite you all to this beta test. We look forward to your feedback. Let us know if you find any bugs, or have any suggestions. Thank you very much.
Hermetech's picture
Hermetech
Joined: Oct 13 2015
Posts: 16
Hermetech
April 17, 2021 - 06:37 am

Nice, all seems to be working from a quick look here today, Win 10 64.

O2LAMJU
Joined: Jun 21 2018
Posts: 34
O2LAMJU
April 26, 2021 - 04:43 am

trying to post my -long- answer, i get this :

bohan's picture
Eventide Staff
bohan
Joined: Jan 9 2018
Posts: 887
bohan
April 26, 2021 - 10:37 am

O2LAMJU wrote:

trying to post my -long- answer, i get this :

Oh...Sorry about that. Hopefully you can post it again. Maybe save your notes somewhere else fisrt...

O2LAMJU
Joined: Jun 21 2018
Posts: 34
O2LAMJU
April 26, 2021 - 01:55 pm

Hi Eventide and fellow users !

all seems to be working (win 10 x64 also), yes.

So you decided to mainly focus the work on changing -just a bit- the look of H9 control ? :D so efficient !

I already had doubts for 2 years about "store tab" relevance for H9max users (to buy twice an algo?). especially on (tiny screen) phone app. So thank you ! bravo à vous !!! enfin !!!! merci !

If you're at ending your work with H9 & H9 Control, and (perhaps already mentionned or desired) although i'm not a native english source/speaker, i'll add a few propositions (and a French user gift perhaps at the end, if able to upload, a listing of algos parameters in excel format). Hoping to be properly understood despite my english. I’ve been thinking about writing this for 2 years…

I – on the H9 device

1- considering the complexity of H9 parameters (so much algos have so much different parameters), it would be really "user-friendly" to have the ability to present on the H9 device display the NAME of the CC# being changed (when using midi CC# to parameter) before (or after) the present value of the parameter with a point somewhere on the display (whatever sign?) dispayed only when you are at the origin value of the parameter.

(or you could perhaps use the 3 led buttons winking when changing value to display if you are now "down/on it/up of" the origin value of the preset being changed). So you can (or try to) come back precisely to the original setting after variations (the device setting option to define the “alternate timelap” between name & value would be also really "user friendly")

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O2LAMJU
Joined: Jun 21 2018
Posts: 34
O2LAMJU
April 26, 2021 - 01:57 pm

II – in H9 Control

2- (on this one, i cried soooooooo many times ;) sometimes I even don’t power-on my PB thinking of the long management I still have to do with a jurassik user interface’s ergonomy) I dream for years of having an "excel-type list tab" in h9 control -or another PC compatible app- with multipreset/parameters editor/manager with list of presets -multiselection possible- and columns filtering of parameters including (please... :) ) routing, instr source, by preset

in which we would definitely have the "user/workflowing friendly" possibility to copy/move presets AND a selection of presets (French jokin’ : did you ever realize we will soon be using computers with keyboard and mouse for music production ? computers use some kind of shortcuts to go faster, easier, workflower... like CTRL, ALT, MAj or even CMD for esteticians or designers... CTRL to copy or add to selection, MAJ to Move or multiselect, etc. and mouse shortcuts also with something more than left click... a new technological world is coming !)

O2LAMJU
Joined: Jun 21 2018
Posts: 34
O2LAMJU
April 26, 2021 - 01:58 pm

Sorry i sometimes try to laugh :) but always cry about H9 management workflow, i mean... H9 control is really good (one needs recognition) to use with fingers on the phone to tweak one sound, but when you worked hard and found many useful and beautiful ones and want to retrieve them, organize them especially, prepare rehearsals, changing band project or preparing a particular soundset, changing the nature of instrument, or work and control with a daw (except Ableton Live... thanks to a generous volunteer user…)… things are going really bad. As if a full even tide's timelap is much faster than trying to reorganize your many eventide H9 sounds through H9 Control. Such an horrible sensation that computers (real ones, not mobile or console) permitted to avoid (i managed to deal with DOS, ok it was hard times… and windows 3.1 or after 95 where you could use right mouse click and even some keyboard shortcuts !!!!)

Enough with the jokes. Ok so we can order easily presets with lists (especially when you can select column and sort presets by these) you can identify many things (type/parameters threshold) very fastly to search sounds that fit an idea (and change it fastly also if needed to try before trying another) without infinite goings and comings -loosing precious time- through different menus

This dreamed-of editor would have a one/two (We, users, may choose) panel listing (sort of Excel one) where i can import/export/edit multiple sounds at once with listing and multiselection facilities. The icing on the cake would be the possibility to edit multiple parameters of multiple presets with a multiple selection's editing function (when changing instrument and thresholds or tone parameters have to be changed a bit for more darkness or brightness ie)

O2LAMJU
Joined: Jun 21 2018
Posts: 34
O2LAMJU
April 26, 2021 - 01:58 pm

On each panel (with the possibility to work with two panels aside) we would have an horizontal ribbon with the source (H9-1, H9-2, H9-3,... , H9-Ctrl preset list, H9-Ctrl usage history, Settings) and a ribbon with the object (preset, preset list, parameters list).

Then, beneath, a list with preset parameters and some preset settings (source instrument -bass, guitar,…- ie should be able to be recorded as a preset setting and VERY easily browsed/editable/reachable through this listing board filtering, as would be the routing setting send/return loop and dsp/fx setting), in columns. we should be able to edit on each panel and copy/move/replace/insert any preset/multipreset selection from and to each panel to/from the other.

A very tiny little underline-"ribbon" on each preset line (down of it?) could represent the actual programming of expression parameters and values (as you did with white and blue points and a blue line between, this is absolutely perfect !)

3- About saving/editing FX list. The idea is to make a list of current presets and choose (none, one, two, multiple, all) presets that you will be ask where to save them (replace current -if on gear-, insert (then decide which to erase if presets full), copy and replace on another preset). the others will be saved on themselves by default without need to retrieve it manually… time saving)

O2LAMJU
Joined: Jun 21 2018
Posts: 34
O2LAMJU
April 26, 2021 - 01:59 pm

4-On the PC you don't use the possibilities coming from having space (on the screen you could have all "more"functions and access to pages directly even on a simple HD screen) neither from having a true keyboard. not even one shortcut set up for pc. none. PC users will use mouse extremely with no multiple selection, no shortcut, no screen tweaking or optimisation and no shortcut...

5- One other thing is Tempo related questions... I slaved my H9/2 to H9/1tempo through midi out/1 to midi in/2. Is H9/1 sending only a tempo message when tempo changed or is it sending continuous midi clock messages ? because sometimes the tempos get unsynced... !?? and if I chain the tempo prog (one CC# on H9-1 sets the tempo with footbutton and sends it by midi to h9-2) what happens if the first effect has no tempo but the second has (and needs one) ?

6- having a preset/edition history also would be perfect. especially when jamming or searching with your band. you search through songs, make a whole session with evolutive sounds and record it to work on it as a material, but we can't have a historical trace of  what we've done on H9 Control. i'm not about parameters' historical review, but at least presets used (and time used would be waouuuh). I’m not sure this kind of info is easily reachable but well…

O2LAMJU
Joined: Jun 21 2018
Posts: 34
O2LAMJU
April 26, 2021 - 02:01 pm

i believe users may probably need 4 environnements/tabs :

A- Sound effects research/exploration with filters and criterias search among 50+ effects (if you make a matrix of the kind of effects included in algos, an effect search by criterias - me : "i want a delay with chorus and/or pitch" H9-CTRL : "these – pitch fuzz, spacetime, undultaor, micropitch etc- are the matching algos and referenced presets for these criterias" - would be an awesome feature, as an effect browser for a complex unit)

B- Live control (parameters in its 2 forms, expression, xy...)

C- managing presets naming/order-list/"per-preset"options/usage history as described earlier !!!

D- Settings

I had a hard time writing this (i'm French – no one’s perfect- but i wanted to be understood at the same time...) i hope it can be at least understood, I know it’s long and unformal but at the end I admit that i do not have many expectations regarding the result... well somehow

Thank you

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
May 11, 2021 - 07:21 am

Windows 10 user here.  I've spent a lot of time with H9 Control over the last 3 years.

Knee jerk reactions.  I hate the look of the new GUI.  The preset symbols/icons are difficult to read for two reasons:  The icons are very wide and the color scheme is awful.  Between the two, the color problem is the worse.  I think you already know what I'm about to say.  One cannot readily distinguish between the SPACE and H9 algorithms and presets. 

You boxed yourself into a corner by relying on font color to distinguish between them.  The font color for SPACE should be black, but it can't be block because the background is black.  So you made it gray, the same color as the H9 font.  Restated it is a mistake to use black/gray as the color scheme for both the SPACE and H9 algos/presets.

These are new problems.  You broke something that didn't need to be "fixed".  I suggest you "unfix" this.

 

 

 

 

 

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
May 11, 2021 - 10:01 am

As a brief follow up:

The preset icons/symbols are now much wider than the algo icons/symbols.  They used to be consistent.  It's disorienting and you should put space between the preset icon columns like you have with the algo icons.  Thanks.

 

bohan's picture
Eventide Staff
bohan
Joined: Jan 9 2018
Posts: 887
bohan
May 11, 2021 - 11:22 am

apalazzolo wrote:

The preset icons/symbols are now much wider than the algo icons/symbols.  They used to be consistent.  It's disorienting and you should put space between the preset icon columns like you have with the algo icons.  Thanks.

I don't think we changed the width of those icons. Can you take a screenshot to explain what you mean?

rxb216
Joined: Jun 18 2018
Posts: 8
rxb216
May 11, 2021 - 12:04 pm

how do we download on Android?? Clicking on the provided link yields a picture I attached. Can you upload the APK somewhere?

Attachment
apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
May 11, 2021 - 12:35 pm

bohan wrote:

apalazzolo wrote:

The preset icons/symbols are now much wider than the algo icons/symbols.  They used to be consistent.  It's disorienting and you should put space between the preset icon columns like you have with the algo icons.  Thanks.

I don't think we changed the width of those icons. Can you take a screenshot to explain what you mean?

Please see attached. I chose a screen shot that has presets for all the Factor and H9 algos.  The identical colors for Space and H9 is not good either.   The color code system you used before was really helpful in zeroing in on one algo out of 50+.

Also note, the color blue for the delays is looks faded, like a powder blue.

Oh, and sorry about the initial error in my post and then the double post.  I thought I was editing my first post.

Thanks!

~Tony

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
May 11, 2021 - 12:57 pm

My Win 10 computer has the correct date, but the new Preset List screen lists today's date as Wednesday April 7, 2021 and the Drag & Drop screen lists today's date as Monday February 1, 2016.

The preset icons in the Drag & Drop screen are also stretched/widened. please see attached screenshot.

 

 

 

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
May 11, 2021 - 12:59 pm

Not sure my first screenshot made it.  second attempt.

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
May 11, 2021 - 01:08 pm

And my PRESET OPTIONS appear to be inactive as they are displayed in"ghost gray".  Please see attached screen shot.

bohan's picture
Eventide Staff
bohan
Joined: Jan 9 2018
Posts: 887
bohan
May 11, 2021 - 06:47 pm

apalazzolo wrote:

And my PRESET OPTIONS appear to be inactive as they are displayed in"ghost gray".  Please see attached screen shot.

Thank you for all your feedback. I'll see if I can make them better.

Regarding this one, I think those options are greyed out because you didn't pick a preset in that list. If you select a preset, those options should be clickable.

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
May 11, 2021 - 06:55 pm

Tricky!  :o)   That's it.  Thanks.

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
May 20, 2021 - 10:25 am

At the beta testing stage the following comments may be moot but ...  it looks like you have chosen not to add new functionality to the Control App.  Since this may be your last chance to do so, I think that is a mistake.  O2LAMJU has some good ideas above.  I and others have some other ideas in the thread here regarding desirable features for an H9 replacement.  Restated there are some good ideas in that thread for improving H9 Control now.

Here's another idea that may be too late:

On each preset edit screen, the editor gui window is great!  To the right of it, there is a large blank space.  IMHO it would be great to add a basic text editor window where the user could add, edit, delete, etc. their personal text for the preset shown on the left.  These would be like developer notes regarding functionality and/or sound quality etc. This would help remind the user returning to a preset after a long time and they should be part of the h9z file so that shared presets include the developer's notes to future users.  

I think you know what I mean but let me just say that Brock's notes in various threads and in the preset sharing webpage are a great example of doing it right.  So I'm basically suggesting you provide a means for people to make such notes right along with each user preset (in the edit screen) and as part of the h9z file.

Thanks for making great stuff. 

 

 

 

 

O2LAMJU
Joined: Jun 21 2018
Posts: 34
O2LAMJU
May 20, 2021 - 01:41 pm

thank you Apalazzolo for saying so !!!

nearly 1month later and not even 1 message of gratitude from eventide for the many hours i spent writing this sh** in english, regardless of the project management they're in and the possibility or not they have to fully finish their h9 ergonomy work.

not even an answer to the 5th question. apathy, indifference ? cultural difference ? i know i don't know. is it political behaviour ? lol

Glad to know someone (even a h9 user !!!) was able to read and understand my vision/propositions. LOVE !

tbskoglund's picture
Eventide Staff
tbskoglund
Joined: Aug 28 2020
Posts: 102
tbskoglund
May 21, 2021 - 01:28 pm

O2LAMJU wrote:

thank you Apalazzolo for saying so !!!

nearly 1month later and not even 1 message of gratitude from eventide for the many hours i spent writing this sh** in english, regardless of the project management they're in and the possibility or not they have to fully finish their h9 ergonomy work.

not even an answer to the 5th question. apathy, indifference ? cultural difference ? i know i don't know. is it political behaviour ? lol

Glad to know someone (even a h9 user !!!) was able to read and understand my vision/propositions. LOVE !

I would suggest reposting your 5th question as a new forum thread. I'm sure it was just overlooked, but it doesn't seem like the question is related to this public beta release. If you create a new post, someone will answer your question and it will be easier for other users to find the answer.

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
May 21, 2021 - 08:03 pm

Just a note to say I used the new software to prepare a few new preset lists and it functioned flawlessly, including renaming presets (which was problematic before).  This was on a Windows 10 computer.

bohan's picture
Eventide Staff
bohan
Joined: Jan 9 2018
Posts: 887
bohan
May 22, 2021 - 07:39 pm

apalazzolo wrote:

Just a note to say I used the new software to prepare a few new preset lists and it functioned flawlessly, including renaming presets (which was problematic before).  This was on a Windows 10 computer.

Yeah we fixed that in this version. It should be good for all platforms now.

I will look into other issues/requests you suggested, but I probably cannot address them all.

bohan's picture
Eventide Staff
bohan
Joined: Jan 9 2018
Posts: 887
bohan
May 26, 2021 - 07:30 pm

rxb216 wrote:

how do we download on Android?? Clicking on the provided link yields a picture I attached. Can you upload the APK somewhere?

Yes. I updated this post. The APK can be downloaded here: https://etide.io/zPrQm

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
June 06, 2021 - 02:22 pm

TWO POSSIBLE HOTSWITCH PROGRAMMING BUGS IN BOTH H9 AND SPACE ALGORITHMS

Hi.  Please see the attached jpeg demonstrating two possible hotswitch bugs.  For a long time I've noticed what seemed to be random hotswitch programming errors, but the attached jpeg shows that quirks exists but they are not random.  They confused me for a very long time and after looking at the manual, I can't believe this is considered normal.  The same issues arise in Space and H9 algos and whether the presets changes are made to presets dragged into a new list or copied and pasted into a new list.  I am running H9 control on Windows 10.  Thanks.  

 

bohan's picture
Eventide Staff
bohan
Joined: Jan 9 2018
Posts: 887
bohan
June 07, 2021 - 02:22 pm

apalazzolo wrote:

TWO POSSIBLE HOTSWITCH PROGRAMMING BUGS IN BOTH H9 AND SPACE ALGORITHMS

Hi.  Please see the attached jpeg demonstrating two possible hotswitch bugs.  For a long time I've noticed what seemed to be random hotswitch programming errors, but the attached jpeg shows that quirks exists but they are not random.  They confused me for a very long time and after looking at the manual, I can't believe this is considered normal.  The same issues arise in Space and H9 algos and whether the presets changes are made to presets dragged into a new list or copied and pasted into a new list.  I am running H9 control on Windows 10.  Thanks.  

Hi

#1 is not an issue. When you program the hotswitch mapping, it doesn't remove the existing mappings automatically. Otherwise, it would confuse users if all old mappings are gone when they program new mappings. So what you noticed was correct. If you'd like to remove old mappings, you can either right click the HotSwitch button to remove all existing mappings or double click the knob/parameter that you'd like to remove mapping from.

#2 is not reproducable on my computer. When I program HotSwitch for all knobs, their existing Ribbon/HotKnob mappings are not affected. Could you please try it again? Maybe you right clicked the ribbon and removed the ribbon mappings accidentally?

Let me know. Thank you!

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
June 07, 2021 - 06:29 pm

bohan wrote:

apalazzolo wrote:

TWO POSSIBLE HOTSWITCH PROGRAMMING BUGS IN BOTH H9 AND SPACE ALGORITHMS

Hi.  Please see the attached jpeg demonstrating two possible hotswitch bugs.  For a long time I've noticed what seemed to be random hotswitch programming errors, but the attached jpeg shows that quirks exists but they are not random.  They confused me for a very long time and after looking at the manual, I can't believe this is considered normal.  The same issues arise in Space and H9 algos and whether the presets changes are made to presets dragged into a new list or copied and pasted into a new list.  I am running H9 control on Windows 10.  Thanks.  

Hi

#1 is not an issue. When you program the hotswitch mapping, it doesn't remove the existing mappings automatically. Otherwise, it would confuse users if all old mappings are gone when they program new mappings. So what you noticed was correct. If you'd like to remove old mappings, you can either right click the HotSwitch button to remove all existing mappings or double click the knob/parameter that you'd like to remove mapping from.

#2 is not reproducable on my computer. When I program HotSwitch for all knobs, their existing Ribbon/HotKnob mappings are not affected. Could you please try it again? Maybe you right clicked the ribbon and removed the ribbon mappings accidentally?

Let me know. Thank you!

Thanks for the prompt response bohan.

#1 Not removing the mappings might avoid one source of confusion but it causes another.  I note that this topic is not covered in the manual (at least the part I looked at).  So these details are left to inference and assumptions developed from usage.  And that's fine. 

FWIW here was my thought process:  Whatever I see after long-pressing the hotswitch is the starting point.   The existence of possible hidden mappings didn't/doesn't seem reasonable so that didn't occur to me until I specifically tried to test and deduce source of my confusion (after many many frustrating efforts).  

It seems to me that the problem is not in maintaining prior mappings, but in hiding them after long-pressing the hotswitch.  Why not display the prior mappings upon long-pressing the hotswitch?  That way the starting point is always totally unambiguous.

#2 My apologies for the confusion.  In this case I intentionally removed the blue range values but inadvertently changing or eliminating them happens to me fairly often.  The aspect that surprised me is that it is possible to change/remove those ranges for the primary present sound when programming the hotswitch.  I guess this arises from my assumption that whatever happens after I long-press the hotswitch applies to the hotswitch mapping sound.   Thus, after long-pressing the hotswitch I shouldn't have an ability to make any changes to the primary sound (intentionally or accidentally) until I exit the hotswitch mapping.  That would prevent inadvertent errors from arising.

By way of background/explanation, I'll say that I often use the ribbon controller and hotswitch for radically different sounds, not just one-parameter tweaks.  It's easy to get confused when trying to vary 6-8 parameters for each, especially when switching back and forth to zero them all in. 

Whether or not you make changes, thanks for looking into my concerns.  ~Tony

P.S. I know it's  a lost cause to mention it but we really do need ribbon control of the output fader.  :o)

 

 

  

 

 

bohan's picture
Eventide Staff
bohan
Joined: Jan 9 2018
Posts: 887
bohan
June 07, 2021 - 08:25 pm

apalazzolo wrote:

#1 Why not display the prior mappings upon long-pressing the hotswitch?  That way the starting point is always totally unambiguous.

Good point! I'll see if I can improve.

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
June 10, 2021 - 10:04 am

bohan wrote:

apalazzolo wrote:

#1 Why not display the prior mappings upon long-pressing the hotswitch?  That way the starting point is always totally unambiguous.

Good point! I'll see if I can improve.

 

Thanks, that will definitely ease HS programming.

With respect to my second concern (HS programming failing to remember some parameter changes), I did more testing to try to find heart of the matter.   It's up to you but I think there is a reproducable there there.

It boils down a failure to remember changes made to any/all parameters after touching the ribbon controller or the "side buttons" for it in any way when in HS programming mode.  This is in Windows 10.

Please consider trying these: 

Recall Ultratap F1 preset.

Long-press the HS.

Press either one of the "side buttons" for the ribbon controller (turning it on) and then press it again (turning it off). 

Change any one or more parameters.

Press HS (to exit programming mode) and press HS again (to view the changes that should have been remembered).  None are remembered.  Note changes made BEFORE touching the side buttons WILL BE remembered.

*****************************************************************************************************************************************

Recall Ultratap F1 preset.

Long-press the HS.

Move the ribbon controller any amount in any direction.  

Change any one or more parameters.

Press HS (to exit programming mode) and press HS again (to view the changes that should have been remembered).  None are remembered.  Note changes made BEFORE touching the ribbon WILL BE remembered.

********************************************************************************************************************************************************

bohan, I want to thank you directly for considering my thoughts/concerns throughout this thread.  I sincerely appreciate it and hope I'm not becoming a pest/gadfly.   ~Tony

 

apalazzolo
Joined: Apr 30 2019
Posts: 80
apalazzolo
June 10, 2021 - 10:13 am

PS If you agree this is a concern, would a reasonable solution be: disabling the ribbon controller upon entering HS programming mode and re-enabling it again upon exiting it?

Thanks for making great products!

 

bohan's picture
Eventide Staff
bohan
Joined: Jan 9 2018
Posts: 887
bohan
June 10, 2021 - 05:59 pm

apalazzolo wrote:

PS If you agree this is a concern, would a reasonable solution be: disabling the ribbon controller upon entering HS programming mode and re-enabling it again upon exiting it?

Thanks for making great products!

Good idea. I cannot promise that but I'll try to make you happy.