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Dario
Joined: Feb 8 2008
Posts: 86

Sustain pedal

April 30, 2019 - 07:59 am

Hello guys, 

I've always had the dream to have a sustain pedal to use with my bass and I'm looking for a preset which emulates a regular piano sustain footswitch.

 

I DON'T WANT a Freeze or Hold effect because I already have a SuperEgo for it, I need of a preset where the H9 HotKnob behaves like the piano sustain pedal

I mean it sustain every note/chord you play whilst its held down, until you release it.

Other pedals as the SuperEgo or the new PLUS pedal have a Layer function but it's not the same, because you have to press the pedal everytime to sustain a new note or a new chord

 

Any suggestions or ideas to create a preset like that? Brock you are preset designer genious, any tips?

Thank you very much

 

 

 

mjahoger
Joined: Sep 20 2018
Posts: 33
April 30, 2019 - 10:02 am

Can't you do this by using an expression pedal to set the decay length of a reverb to infinity? To quote Brock from a different thread:

"Most of the algorithms featuring reverb have INF and FRZ positions in the DECAY parameter.
 Infinite continues to layer your input through the reverb. Freeze takes whatever is currently in the buffer, and holds it (no new input). Latch or unlatch the INF and FRZ features with an Aux switch, HotSwitch, expression pedal, or over MIDI."

 

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 897
April 30, 2019 - 07:30 pm

Mjahoger's right.  I'd take most any FREEZE-capable algorithm from some minimal DECAY time to INF.  I'll add this:  I would bind an Aux switch to the Expression Pedal mapping, for the momentary switch action you want.  If you're not using the H9 port for anything else [EXP PED, pedal + 1 switch, or triple AUX switches], I've gotten excellent results from using an actual (M Audio) sustain pedal.  Great feel; just like a keyboard.

As for a preset, here's a general idea of how you'd do it in the HALL algorithm. In the 2nd image (linked below), map the expression pedal to INF, rather than FREEZE.  Bind an Aux switch to EXP PED, and you'll "layer" on your notes until you release the sustain pedal / switch.  Here's that HALL preset link:

https://www.eventideaudio.com/comment/34691#comment-34691

I know what you mean about the SuperEgo.  Some kind of mixture of the MOMENT & AUTO modes come closest to what (I believe) you want.  AUTO ... you have to latch & unlatch, but it will overlay notes.  MOMENT is more like a FREEZE (single capture) mode.  I've got several H9s, EHX Freeze and SuperEgo here, so feel free to expand on any more questions you might have.  Each unit has its advantages, and some disadvantages.

Dario
Joined: Feb 8 2008
Posts: 86
May 01, 2019 - 01:45 pm

Hi Brock!

ok I've followed your suggestions with the HALL algorithm. Yeah, It's very close to a sustain pedal effect, actually

but there is still a "problem" :   as a sonic result, the timbre of sustained notes not is not clear, predominate the Reverb tail effect, thus I'm no more able to listen to the original and clean sound of the notes. A shorter INF Decay value could help to keep them clear, I guess, but if I set it to 20 seconds (the last value before the INF) I have no more a sustain effect

when they are layered one after the other the final result is more as a drone effect, almost a cluster of notes. On the other hand, when I use the regular sustain footswitch on the piano the sound/timbre of the notes remains unchanged, they are only sustained. Any suggestions?

 

Well, said that, I have another question for you : do you own the SuperEgo + ? 

On the manual I see a Mode called "SUSTAIN" , they say that It works similarly to a piano sustain pedal, but it is true? Have you ever tried that mode? On my SuperEgo I have only three modes: Momentary,LATCH and AUTO but they are far from my purpose

Let me know

Thank you very much

mjahoger
Joined: Sep 20 2018
Posts: 33
May 01, 2019 - 04:11 pm

What if you use a different algorithm with a longer decay time, like the dynaverb, which has a decay of 50 seconds?

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 897
May 01, 2019 - 10:36 pm

Dario wrote:

... the timbre of sustained notes not is not clear, predominate the Reverb tail effect, thus I'm no more able to listen to the original and clean sound of the notes ... when they are layered one after the other the final result is more as a drone effect, almost a cluster of notes ...

Yes, that's going to be a function of how the H9 approaches freeze / infinite.  In just about any algorithm, you're "sampling" the reverb; not the original input tone.  It will be close, but modified by the reverb type, SIZE, DECAY, any EQ settings, any MOD RATE or LEVEL ...

The HALL algo is fairly straightforward, as far as coloration at neutral settings.  But you're still capturing the reverb itself; unlike the SuperEgo, which captures a small slice of the input itself.  An INF setting in the H9 does tend to pile up on itself.  But it's worth exploring all of the variations over multiple algorithms.

Each one has a unique take on routing, modulation, etc., and the resulting tone in FREEZE / INF.  Using a bass as input, the ones with finer control over EQ tweaking may turn out to fit the best.

Dario wrote:

... On my SuperEgo I have only three modes: Momentary,LATCH and AUTO but they are far from my purpose ...

I forgot to mention the SUSTAIN mode.  When you click through the modes, it's between MOMENT & AUTO [both the amber & green LEDs lit].  It might be closer to what you're after, but with a few problems there:

It's tied to the SuperEgo DECAY knob position.  You'll need to crank it clockwise to get an INFINITE-type sustain.  So releasing the BYPASS switch isn't going to be instant-dry.  You need to double-tap BYPASS (with silent input) to get it to cleanly shut down the sustained notes.  Good news is that a single external switch (like a physical sustain pedal) defaults to BYPASS control.

Plus, any note that passes the THRESHOLD value will replace what was sustaining before it.  These aren't necessarily "bad" features, but I don't think it's what you want.  That said, the SuperEgo sustain (in any Mode) is subjectively closer to your original tone going into it than the H9 variations.

Neither approach is good or bad; just different.

Dario
Joined: Feb 8 2008
Posts: 86
May 02, 2019 - 03:53 pm

"....Good news is that a single external switch (like a physical sustain pedal) defaults to BYPASS control..."

ok, I can use my Boss FS-5U footswitch, but I will have

1) again to double-tap to achieve the BYPASS

2) use the same with two switches : the Boss FS-5U and the SuperEgo+ Bypass switch.

I don't know if it will be handy...

anyway, I'd use a lower Decay setting to get it to cleanly shut down the sustained notes,

it could be a solution

 

brock's picture
brock
Joined: Jan 3 2010
Posts: 897
May 03, 2019 - 03:49 pm

Dario wrote:

... anyway, I'd use a lower Decay setting to get it to cleanly shut down the sustained notes,

it could be a solution

You may be able to find the 'sweet spot'; the DECAY knob is kind of touchy.  It will be the 'master' control over how long your sustain lasts, though (unlike the reverb DECAY parameter in the H9).