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bronzejames2
Joined: Apr 29 2014
Posts: 1

Univibe algorithm?

April 29, 2014 - 09:40 am

Is there anything in the works for a univibe effect to be in the h9? I'd say its a very important!!

marcusm750's picture
marcusm750
Joined: Sep 26 2012
Posts: 63
May 03, 2014 - 11:55 am

[crickets chirping]

Yeah, a convincing and realistic Uni-Vibe algo has been requested for years, basically since the initial release of the ModFactor.  Just search the forum archives and you'll see for yourself.  One would think this would be a priority with the H9, but Eventide seems either unwilling or unable to develop such an algo.  (Don't feel bad, Big E, I find the Fulltone, MXR and other Uni-Vibes to be pale imitations of the original Shin-ei as well.)

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gkellum
Joined: Mar 2 2011
Posts: 2280
May 03, 2014 - 04:22 pm

People have posted various presets for a Univibe sound using the Phaser algorithm on the gearpage. Have you all tried those?  I'd be interested in hearing how they measured up to your expectations.  

For example here's one from the H9 Owners thread

* Ken replied on 24 Mar 2009 11:48 PM rated by 0 users
Phaser
Intensity=48
Type=Positive
Depth=25
Speed=1.65
Shape=Sine
Xnob=Stags-2
D-Mod=45
Smod=28
ModRate=.25x5

How does this measure up to your expectations?  A lot of people have been asking for a Univibe.  I guess we need to gauge whether people think they can get close enough to the sound they want with one of the current algorithms or do we need a dedicated Univibe algorithm?


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marcusm750
Joined: Sep 26 2012
Posts: 63
May 04, 2014 - 01:02 pm

Fair enough, gkellum.  Since I threw the gauntlet down...

Yes, I've tried the Lou-nivibe (12:2) in the ModFactor as well as the Fulltone and MXR models against a vintage (borrowed) Shin-ei Uni-Vibe and my own home-built unit based upon the original circuitry.  All "challengers" sound flatter with not as much lumpiness or lop-sidedness even with the intensity turned to maximum.  They're not bad, they just don't go far enough into the hippy, trippy territory.

The original Shin-ei Uni-Vibe was a four-stage phaser which employed light-sensitive resistors (LSRs) driven by a lamp and LFO to control the phase sweeps.  The first three cascaded stages had the same notch frequency while the fourth had a slightly higher notch and didn't sweep as far (it also buffered the phased signal before hitting the mixer).  Since the LSRs were not matched (as far as I know), the sweeping was slightly different which created pleasant beat frequencies that a two-stage simply cannot recreate.  All the other remakes (with the exception of the out-of-production Dunlop Uni-Vibe which copied the original circuit including the LSRs) use FETs which, while having a similar transfer function as the LSRs, are too close in their variances/tolerances to create the sometimes-very intense beats of the original.

Perhaps if the phaser algorithm was expanded to include four stages with "intentional" (and possibly controllable) variances in their notches and sweeps, the same level of warble and beating could be achieved.

cormallen
Joined: Jan 4 2014
Posts: 12
May 06, 2014 - 09:21 am

Hi there,

I just compared that phaser patch against my Castledine SupraVibe (reckoned to be one of the more faithful univibe clones) to see how close they were... and the short answer is: they're absolutely nothing like each other.  The vibe is a much stronger effect than the H9 patch, and a lot more interesting to listen to.


(I don't have a horse in this particular race: I'm quite content with my current setup and was doing this purely out of interest).

marcusm750's picture
marcusm750
Joined: Sep 26 2012
Posts: 63
October 28, 2014 - 12:52 pm

So I recently borrowed/stole another vintage Shin-ei Uni-Vibe from the studio where I work part time (equipment maintenance).  All I can say is WHOA!  My usual setting for Trower/Hendrix (and Gilmour) was waaaaaaay too aggressive and pronounced.  Had to back the Intensity control down two full notches to get back to familiar territory.

In comparing this unit with my home-brewed clone (based upon the previous Shin-ei unit I borrowed/stole), the fixed component values didn't seem to be that far off even with 10% resistor and cap tolerances through 40 years of aging.  Didn't beta test the transistors, obviously, but I would expect them to be similar.  Using a 1 kHz sine wave as a test signal between this unit and my clone, it appears the second-stage phaser is "hotter" as is the fourth-stage phaser/vibrato section.

This reinforces my hypothesis that the LSRs were not matched originally and have gone through inconsistent aging, resulting in some units being "sweeter" than others with more pleasant lumpiness and lopsidedness from the beat frequencies.  (Not a surprising result when comparing vintage gear built with looser components and, sometimes, what was available at the time.)

Back to the Lou-nivibe in the ModFactor (which I recently acquired again): in direct comparisons, it's just too "perfect" without the lumps!  I don't know how else to describe it.  Sure, it gets hippy trippy but no where near the stoner haze of yesteryear.  IMHO, having the four stages with "adjustable sloppiness" for the modeled LSRs would provide the characteristic sound of the original and should justify a new algorithm for the H9.  Thanks for your further consideration (and putting up with my rants).

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KCStratman
Joined: Apr 14 2014
Posts: 149
(My Eventide Gear)
October 30, 2014 - 01:29 am

Marcusm750, how about using two ModFactors or H9s to get four stages of effect? I also have been underwhelmed by the Lounivibe preset and phaser variations for a real univibe sound. Any suggestions for parameters for two units to achieve the effect you describe? Or, how about a combination of the phaser with another algorithm to induce the "wobble" to the oscillation? There is something of a contest for the best (truest) univibe effect on another very serious forum I frequent - - yes, ET Mothership, authentic univibe is a very desired retro effect eminently worthy of your emulation - - and I would love to be able to pop in with the clear winner from an H9 or two! Maybe this is yet another great reason for a dual engine "H99"...with a bigger display and more external controls!

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marcusm750
Joined: Sep 26 2012
Posts: 63
October 30, 2014 - 05:25 pm

It's a good idea, KCStratman, and one that I've thought of before to slake my insatiable lust of that Uni-Vibe sound.  I think with four stages of phasing set slightly off from each other, the lumpiness I'm desperately seeking may present itself.  The only thing holding me back is that I don't have a second ModFactor nor an H9 (yet!) to try this out.  While the studio has a couple H3000s, they're older models and, more so, I think they'd notice the gaping hole in the rack.  (I can't get the equipment manager to splurge for an Eclipse, not that he'd let me tuck it under my arm one evening!)  They do have an MXR Auto-Phaser of dubious condition in the closet so perhaps I can see if it works to add to the ModFactor as a preliminary indicator of this potential.

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marcusm750
Joined: Sep 26 2012
Posts: 63
November 02, 2014 - 10:32 am

OK, so I nicked a friend's MXR Phase 45 to try with the ModFactor.  For the few not in the know, the Phase 45 is a two-stage phaser with just a simple speed knob.  Ran guitar --> Phase 45 --> ModFactor on default Lou-nivibe settings.  Set the speed by ear as close to the 2.8 Hz of the Lou but, obviously, they're not in sync like in the real Uni-Vibe.  It didn't really work, because they weren't in sync, but the results were quite interesting, even if over the top and too much.  When the two would briefly sweep together, it was closer to the target sound than just the Lou alone.  But when they were sweeping against each other, way too much fast w-w-w-w-w-warble.  Similar to going to four stages via the Xnob on the Lou setting (even when the speed is reduced a bit).

It was an interesting experiment that really shows all four stages need to be swept together (as the four LSRs in the common light box driven from the one lamp ensures).  With two ModFactors or two H9s, I'm not sure if tap tempo via MIDI would be the proper way to sync them.  Even if this were possible, it may be too "perfect" as well since the slight differences in response times of the LSRs, while keeping the stages moving together, provide some variance to make the overall effect more rich and interesting.  I've noticed too that when either the real-deal Uni-Vibe or my clone was engaged for some time, the effect would change (the speed seemed to increase ever so slightly) so I wonder if the lamp's response changes a little as it gets warmer over time.

Back to the drawing board to think about this some more.  I guess I'll flip back to my Binson Echorec clone (four BBD delay lines with extended but equally-spaced times out to about 500 msec, toggle switches to select any combination of the four delays, cascaded FET preamp) for a while!

mcvittym
Joined: Sep 13 2008
Posts: 6
July 24, 2015 - 01:28 am
gkellum wrote:

People have posted various presets for a Univibe sound using the Phaser algorithm on the gearpage. Have you all tried those?  I'd be interested in hearing how they measured up to your expectations.  

For example here's one from the H9 Owners thread

* Ken replied on 24 Mar 2009 11:48 PM rated by 0 usersPhaserIntensity=48Type=PositiveDepth=25Speed=1.65Shape=SineXnob=Stags-2D-Mod=45Smod=28ModRate=.25x5

How does this measure up to your expectations?  A lot of people have been asking for a Univibe.  I guess we need to gauge whether people think they can get close enough to the sound they want with one of the current algorithms or do we need a dedicated Univibe algorithm?

I reckon that a credible Univibe algorithm for ModFactor/H9 would be of significant commercial benefit to Eventide!

rlynch
Joined: Jul 3 2015
Posts: 21
July 24, 2015 - 09:55 pm

+1 .........come on eventide give us a killer accurate univibe algo. Its one of the greatest effects ever produced.

DFToone
Joined: May 9 2010
Posts: 4
July 30, 2015 - 06:31 pm

+2. 

It doesn't look like this issue is going to go away.  I'd like to have a great Univibe effect on the Modfactor and the H9.

gchilders
Joined: Jun 8 2015
Posts: 5
August 05, 2015 - 12:28 am

I just sold my Dunlop Uni-Vibe, figuring I could get something close enough on the H9.  I played around with the presets and settings in the phaser and rotary algorithms, but the Uni-vibe's tone proved elusive.  A really cool reference point for a Uni-vibe tone is Pink Floyd's "Breathe In the Air."  Hwew is a version with the drums, bass, and vocals removed where you can really hear Gilmour's tone:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxjTwVN5w4Y

It would be pretty amazing to have a great Uni-Vibe tone on the H9. 

rlynch
Joined: Jul 3 2015
Posts: 21
August 05, 2015 - 10:09 am

I think its pretty silly that eventide has not brought a great univibe out yet. wonder what the problem is and why we have waited so long with tons of request seems no one is listening. the phaser algos will NEVER work its not even close. come on guys make this happen for your customers your Eventide for God's sakes!!

f.y.i...Strymon has one, not that good but at least its there.

rlynch
Joined: Jul 3 2015
Posts: 21
August 05, 2015 - 10:14 am

gchilders wrote:

I just sold my Dunlop Uni-Vibe, figuring I could get something close enough on the H9.  I played around with the presets and settings in the phaser and rotary algorithms, but the Uni-vibe's tone proved elusive.  A really cool reference point for a Uni-vibe tone is Pink Floyd's "Breathe In the Air."  Hwew is a version with the drums, bass, and vocals removed where you can really hear Gilmour's tone:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxjTwVN5w4Y

It would be pretty amazing to have a great Uni-Vibe tone on the H9. 

I agree totally now if they would listen to the customer request's ??? f.y.i..I tried a lot of univibes all the top units even the drybell. I thought the drybell sounded way to phasey finally picked up a jam pedal retrovibe.BINGO! the only one I found that was as good was the 500.00 voodoo vibe.

 

rlynch
Joined: Jul 3 2015
Posts: 21
August 05, 2015 - 10:14 am

its almost 2016 and still no univibe?

spaceJam
Joined: Jan 21 2015
Posts: 170
August 05, 2015 - 12:19 pm

Never been fan of univibe but I guess it would be nice (and simple for Eventide) to have one.

 

 

I like what they did with the DynaVerb algorithm in the Space that when you put the "decay" knob to 0 it becomes in the OmniPressor.

 

I guess they could do something like that in the Chorus or the Vibrato algorithm.

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jgoldbach
Joined: Jan 12 2015
Posts: 60
August 05, 2015 - 01:12 pm

Right now there's nothing to report on a possible UniVibe algorithm. Can't say much more than that but we are listening.

rlynch
Joined: Jul 3 2015
Posts: 21
August 05, 2015 - 01:53 pm

something like tc electronics new vibe effect would be cool should be easy cheesy for eventide to pull off and maybe give it a eventide spin with a panning left/right dual amp stereo feature. thanks glad your listening......... now about that Boss pn-2 type panning algo that would be awesome effect to add to any preset... :)

 

DFToone
Joined: May 9 2010
Posts: 4
August 05, 2015 - 03:31 pm

Eventide staff,

Thanks for reading and checking in.  I'd like to comment again.  I really don't mean to sound contentious.  I like Eventide products a lot, and you have no obligation to provide a product just because the customers ask for it.  You make what you want to make, and we buy what we want to buy.  But to say there is "nothing to report" and "we are listening" isn't anything new or helpful.  That is basically what Eventide said at the beginning of this thread more than a year ago.

I would like a nice Univibe effect.  I would rather not have to add another pedal to my board to get it.  It seems to make sense on the Modfactor and H9, but if you're not going to do it, I would prefer that you just said that so I can move on.

  • Is Eventide even working on a Univibe effect to add to one of the existing products?  (Or a new product?)
  • Is Eventide unable to produce a satisfactoy Univibe effect for some reason?
  • Have you decided not to offer Univibe but just don't want to make an announcement?

Just looking for clarity.  Thanks.

Chaz
Joined: Nov 11 2013
Posts: 2
August 05, 2015 - 08:11 pm

Funny that today I decided to look for a Univibe effects pedal because I have not been happy with the Lounivibe preset. Just happen to see  this post. Yes, I would like to see Eventide come out with a univibe algorithim. That would make life a lot sweeter!

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jgoldbach
Joined: Jan 12 2015
Posts: 60
August 06, 2015 - 05:28 pm

DFToone wrote:

Just looking for clarity.  Thanks.

I'm sorry it's been such a trial and that we haven't been able to say more. We're not trying to be coy or make life difficult, we just don't disclose what we are and aren't working on. There are a number of reasons why, but none of them are aimed at frustrating or ignoring a customer. I'm sure you understand. Maybe someone above my pay grade can answer your questions more directly. 

PBGas
Joined: Jun 7 2015
Posts: 9
August 16, 2015 - 11:51 am

I'll add in that I would love a univibe preset as well.  Thanks to Eventide for listening!  I'm sure they will be coming up with some new and great things for these awesome pedals!  So happy with both of them on my board.  Never had a better and easy to use setup!   

Keep up the great work, Eventide and thanks for listening! 

kcardita
Joined: Dec 7 2015
Posts: 7
January 11, 2016 - 01:26 am

Just want to add my $.02 - as a happy owner of 2 H9 pedels ( Max+Standard) and one who is wanting an authentic univibe sound , I really don't want to drop another $300+ to get "that sound".

Heres the Challenge ....

Having read up on the original Univibe and having an understanding of both analog electronics (BSEE by degree)  and DSP programming ( many years a coder and having managed a team of DSP coders)  I realize the difficult engineering task it is to emulate the unique analog circuitry of a univibe in the digital domain.  In fact, all of the currently manufactured "best of breed"  univibes are ALL analog.  (Note: The only decent, but not considered best of breed DSP/digital one that I have found is the one by TC)

From what I have observed EVENTIDE == Studio quality - best in breed effects .

Speculation ...

My guess is that the R&D team has worked on and/or is working on it, but that the powers that decide what becomes a product have not been happy with the results and that it is still under development.

Finally  I realize that all high tech companies never disclose what is in the development pipepline - legal departments never allow it :)

Ever Hopeful ...

Having said all of that, I am sitting on the fence waiting hopeing that at the NAAM show that is in 2 weeks, EVENTIDE will make all of us insanely happy with an annoucement  or I will have to go by one of the best in breed pedals while I continue to wait....

Thanks for letting me get this off of my chest :)

DFToone
Joined: May 9 2010
Posts: 4
January 11, 2016 - 12:08 pm

kcardita wrote:

Heres the Challenge ....

Having read up on the original Univibe and having an understanding of both analog electronics (BSEE by degree)  and DSP programming ( many years a coder and having managed a team of DSP coders)  I realize the difficult engineering task it is to emulate the unique analog circuitry of a univibe in the digital domain.  In fact, all of the currently manufactured "best of breed"  univibes are ALL analog.  (Note: The only decent, but not considered best of breed DSP/digital one that I have found is the one by TC)

I think this must be true.  I think Eventide would nail it if it were possible.  They probably just have not been able to develop something that they wanted to put their name on.

ranchorock
Joined: Jan 25 2016
Posts: 5
February 09, 2016 - 02:44 pm

Hi eventide staff,

are you working on a univebe algorith already? Last post from staff was a year ago, any good news?

thank you

ranchorock
Joined: Jan 25 2016
Posts: 5
March 06, 2016 - 08:43 pm

Any News on a Univibe Algorithm?

Thank you

dleuen
Joined: Sep 26 2014
Posts: 1
March 06, 2016 - 09:13 pm

Just wanted to add my voice to those wanting a Univibe.

ranchorock
Joined: Jan 25 2016
Posts: 5
April 20, 2016 - 02:00 pm

Any news from staff working on univibe algorithm?

Thank you

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javiceres
Joined: Jan 10 2010
Posts: 70
(My Eventide Gear)
April 30, 2016 - 07:00 pm

UniVibe, please, yeah.

Phaser can get to sund similar, but it only can do so much, cool but still dfferent.

When I've had the pleasure to Play an UniVibe I placed it before gain FX, so it could use an additional Comp fx for instance to make the algo even more desirable...

But really I've been looking for an Eventide UniVibe since I checked there wasn't on in the Mod Factor. And no phaser tricks neider mixed resonat analog filters will make a proper UniVibe. Actually I've turned down many analog pedals claiming to be UVibes because they sounded like mere tuned phasers.

ranchorock
Joined: Jan 25 2016
Posts: 5
April 30, 2016 - 07:15 pm

Please Staff, say something

richpjr
Joined: Mar 25 2010
Posts: 3
May 08, 2016 - 11:21 pm

Another plug for a Univibe!

tombinasco
Joined: Jul 20 2016
Posts: 1
July 20, 2016 - 01:10 am

Just got the H9 Max. Sounds good so far, but I'd love a UniVibe!

LukeGibson
Joined: Aug 9 2016
Posts: 5
August 09, 2016 - 12:20 am

Crickets Chirping.....

 

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BMW-KTM
Joined: Jul 19 2016
Posts: 13
August 09, 2016 - 01:51 pm

I'm glad to know I'm not alone here.

I guess the old heavy Fulltone Mini-DejaVibe II Treadle will remain on my pedalboard a while longer.

I can't live without my UniVive.

The Fulltone treadle style is a really good one and I'm guessing it will be a tough act for Eventide to follow.

Fingers crossed.

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gkellum
Joined: Mar 2 2011
Posts: 2280
August 09, 2016 - 02:32 pm

Sorry no one from Eventide has responded to this Univibe thread.  We've been talking about it, and we're planning on having someone take a look at this and try to figure out how hard of a modeling problem this will be.  This won't be our next algorithm, but given how many people have been asking for it, we're going to look into it.

ranchorock
Joined: Jan 25 2016
Posts: 5
August 09, 2016 - 02:41 pm

gkellum wrote:

Sorry no one from Eventide has responded to this Univibe thread.  We've been talking about it, and we're planning on having someone take a look at this and try to figure out how hard of a modeling problem this will be.  This won't be our next algorithm, but given how many people have been asking for it, we're going to look into it.

 

Thank you!!

Chaz
Joined: Nov 11 2013
Posts: 2
August 09, 2016 - 03:06 pm

Glad to see that Eventide is looking into users request. Hope to see something soonsmiley

mcvittym
Joined: Sep 13 2008
Posts: 6
August 09, 2016 - 06:30 pm

Very impressed with your willingness to engage with your customers.

gilmouracadamy
Joined: Jan 26 2017
Posts: 1
January 26, 2017 - 06:12 pm

Well, it's been over a 1/2 year since the last message about this...where are we at with the Uni-vibe algo???

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javiceres
Joined: Jan 10 2010
Posts: 70
(My Eventide Gear)
January 30, 2017 - 09:49 pm

gilmouracadamy wrote:

Well, it's been over a 1/2 year since the last message about this...where are we at with the Uni-vibe algo???

 

What about Univibe + echoPlex !?!

smj
Joined: May 17 2015
Posts: 11
May 01, 2017 - 02:09 pm

Surely they've looked into it by now???

Crickets....

Sean Meredith-Jones
www.seanmeredithjones.com

rlynch
Joined: Jul 3 2015
Posts: 21
May 01, 2017 - 08:58 pm

Yeah best to just go buy a retrovibe or vibe machine and be done with it. Digital univibe will never sound as good anyway,unless eventide proves us all wrong :)

smj
Joined: May 17 2015
Posts: 11
May 01, 2017 - 11:34 pm

I have the mjm sixties vibe big box version from several years ago but it's a real estate hog... was hoping to gage an alternative to free up some space.

Sean Meredith-Jones
www.seanmeredithjones.com

rlynch wrote:

Yeah best to just go buy a retrovibe or vibe machine and be done with it. Digital univibe will never sound as good anyway,unless eventide proves us all wrong :)

aviavi
Joined: Sep 27 2016
Posts: 10
May 05, 2017 - 08:02 pm

Yes, another vote. This would be a useful addition.

st.bede
Joined: May 7 2014
Posts: 93
May 10, 2017 - 01:23 pm

I have to thiink that it is not possible for Eventide to get a high enough quality sound for a univibe algo.I am ok with that. I would rather have quuality over filler. I guess around a year ago I just went out and bought a Fulltone Deja Vibe.  

kcardita
Joined: Dec 7 2015
Posts: 7
May 10, 2017 - 08:53 pm

I posted on this thread about a year ago -- since then I have purchased a DryBell Vibe Machine -- a most awesome analog vibe pedal.  I got tired of waiting on Eventide.

I recently aquired a Fractal Audio Axe Fx II XL -- it has a very usable digital vibe implementation.   I am working a doing a side by side comparison video.  So with enought DSP power and programming it can be done ......

Chalky
Joined: Dec 2 2015
Posts: 31
May 15, 2017 - 08:38 am

I recently bought an Atomic AMpliFIre guitar modeler and tried a very convincing UnivIbe patch submitted to the Atomic forum... it was explained that a univibe is basically a four stage phaser...it is certainly convincing playing Trower and Hendrix material, and I have gone thru a few lesser univibe pedals (MXR, Voodoo, Line 6, Lovepedal...). I don't have my H9 yet but when I get it I'll have a look see if I can replicate that AmpliFIre recipe for H9.

nitefly
Joined: Dec 22 2009
Posts: 19
September 29, 2017 - 06:38 pm

Id love a juicy thick Univibe algo. Please

llemtt
Joined: Oct 14 2011
Posts: 49
October 05, 2017 - 10:11 am

Years have passed and I'm still here ready to trigger the "ModFactor/H9 buy button" but lack of Univibe still forbid's it!

btw in the meantime I developed a good (to my ears it sounds at least a little better than an MXR M68...) but low dsp consuming univibe algorithm that I run on my diy pedal...

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Hermetech
Joined: Oct 13 2015
Posts: 10
October 27, 2017 - 06:29 am

I also want a Univibe algo.