Program Mix and Presets Mix and Overall Volume

[Rulo]

Hi!

I’m trying to understand the way that the program overall volume works with my current setup, which is a Friedman Runt 50 with the H90 in Dual Mode, using the 4CM. I’ve set the inputs and outputs to inst level and I’ve also tried DSP and Relay Bypass but I’m finding difficult to understand the way the mix and output knobs works.

I’ve seen that most of the programs are already with the Mix at 100%, but if I move it to 50%, I’m hearing an increase in the output of the dry signal. I’ve read in the forum that this happened to some users. I’ve tried to reduce this issue using the Kill Dry in the algorithm going through the amp’s loop and reducing the algorithm mix to a lower %. I found that with this, the wet signed is similar to my dry tone, but not 100% perfect. It’s like finding unity gain is not easy.

Is this the normal behavior of the pedal? I saw that the only way to solve this is to reduce the program output gain to match the bypassed signal. Is this the way meant to be? It seems strange to me that I have to reduce the overall output and trying differents combinations to match the output of my bypassed signal.

Maybe I’m not understanding how the Mix works in every algorithm or maybe there is something in my setup that I’m missing?

Thanks for the help!

[tbskoglund]

Hello,

The Program mix works in a way that reduces the volume of either signal. At 0, the wet mix is reduced completely, at 100 the dry signal is reduced completely. At 50% both the wet and dry mixes are not reduced at all, so both signals are at full volume, and this can result in a perceived increase in loudness.

If you are using Kill Dry, the mix knob becomes a level control for the wet signal. There is no dry signal to blend, the mix knob is simply a level control for how loud you want the wet signal. I would suggest continuing to use Kill Dry for whatever effects are in the loop of the amp and use the mix control for that preset to adjust the wet signal to test. Your level for a wet signal may be different for reverb or delay, for example.

Does the amp have a mix or level control for the effects send? Have you tried running the H90 at instrument level instead? The FX Loop of the amp is most likely a line level signal but your path before the preamp could be run at instrument level.

Bypass mode should not make a different when settings your levels.

Let me know if that is helpful.

 

[Rulo]

Hi! Thanks for your answer.

What I perceive is that, if Kill Dry is not engaged, reducing the program mix increase the volume of the dry signal and it’s very noticeable. It’s not mandatory for me to reduce the Program Mix, but in some cases I prefer to have some dry signal blended but, even if I use the Kill Dry on, I feel that there is an increase in the volume. Is it possible that, per algorithm, the levels are set in a different way? Eg. Blackhole being louder than Dual Verb.

The amp has no mix or level control, is a super clean series fx loop (according to the manufacturer). I’ve also tried setting the inputs to line and instrument level and there is a perceived increase in the output. Should I set the In/Out 3 to line level?

And, finally, is it normal that, in order to compensate this, I have to set programs with negative outputs levels?

Thanks!

[tbskoglund]

You should not have to compensate with the program output levels too much.

Are you using the amps effects loop with I/O 3? If that is the case, then yes it should be line level.

The best way you can troubleshoot this is by loading to “THRU” presets to get a clearer idea of where the signal is getting louder. The H90 should not be changing your signal level at all with 2 thru algorithms and all of the gains set at 0db, but you should have Program mix at 100% for this test.

 

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