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May 8, 2014 at 12:35 pm #111604MookakianMember
Seems insane, some effects I get need to be wet all the way, not all! Bar rotary the others do not have a mix knob… I for one would be most impressed with a mix knob, so many options and to miss this is nuts, mix control is so powerful but not available!!
So let E-Tide know! Please 🙂
You can do it Eventide! Mix it down for us, the X-Knob does nothing most of the time, use that!
May 8, 2014 at 1:02 pm #125884underwoodMember
May 8, 2014 at 4:12 pm #125886st.bedeMember
May 8, 2014 at 10:46 pm #125889derelict78Participant
This is THE reason I don't own a modfactor.
May 8, 2014 at 11:27 pm #136611MookakianMember
Yeah I am about to sell mine actually, too important!
May 9, 2014 at 12:42 pm #125899batmanarm67Member
May 10, 2014 at 1:57 am #125903kibooMember
May 10, 2014 at 1:38 pm #136617dimitris1179Participant
May 11, 2014 at 9:57 pm #125907st.bedeMember
I totally dig the use/reason for an intensity compared to a wet/dry mix. I am not sure how many modulation fx come with a wet/dry mix. Off the top of my head, I can not really think of any of my other stomp boxes that do. Because of that, I would be very happy for a universal wet/dry or intensity setting in the utility menu. Peace
May 13, 2014 at 1:34 pm #125916MookakianMember
We could just use the X-Knob too St bede, it is not used a lot of the time but you are right, even in the utilities menu for the wet/dry setting would be very nice indeed!
May 13, 2014 at 2:19 pm #136627underwoodMember
I would like a preset mix setting, not a global mix setting.
May 13, 2014 at 3:25 pm #136629wedelichModeratorEventide Staff
Ok, I've been thinking about this thread, and figure we've got explaining to do. In general, I agree that modulation effects don't usually have wet/dry mix knobs (please enlighten me on the ones that do). This is because the way you build a modulation effect is to mix your dry signal with some modulated, delayed, and/or filtered signal. Other times the mix knob just doesn't make sense, and wouldn't have an outcome any different than turning the depth to 0 (filtering effects, tremolo, vibrato). That being said, the intensity knob the MF algorithms does already actually do wet/dry mixing in the majority of cases (thought not always to completely dry). I'll go through this per algorithm.
Chorus: Among other things, the Intensity knob does control the wet/dry mix of the original signal and the delayed / modulated voices. Doesn't go all the way to zero, we assumed people would just bypass.
Phaser: This is really a filtering effect, achieved my modulating allpass filters (filters that effect phase or small values of frequency dependent delays, but pass amplitude at 0 dB), so the explanation below for QWah kind of applies. That said, it the Intensity knob still does some wet/dry mixing, though, like chorus, not all the way to zero.
Q-Wah: doesn't make sense to have Wet/Dry. Adding the dry signal would change the filtering response to something more like a peaking filter.
Flanger: Same as chorus
ModFilter: same as Q-Wah
Rotary: This does have a wet/dry, even though we didn't think it made too much sense to do it at first, but we liked the sound of it (comb filtering and all), so we implemented it after people asked for it.
TremoloPan: Doesn't need a wet/dry, use the depth for this or simply bypass it.
Vibrato: Intensity is wet/dry mix
Undulator: Intensity is wet/dry mix
RingMod: Intensity is wet/dry mix
So, in reality, we're only actually talking about three algorithms, of the which the whole effect is accomplished by mixing your dry signal with other signals, and the Intensity knob on these is already doing wet/dry mixing in order to give varying degrees of the effect.
May 13, 2014 at 7:19 pm #136630ImerkatParticipant
makes me wonder how the killdry works in those effects
May 13, 2014 at 8:10 pm #136631wedelichModeratorEventide Staff
I just glanced at the code, and for the most part, it does what you would expect, it mutes the dry paths. I say most part because I didn't spend all day reverse engineering it, but I'm fairly confident in my assessment.
May 13, 2014 at 8:47 pm #136633MookakianMember
No the intensity does not give a wet/dry mix knob…on any of the setting bar rotary. What it does is very different than a wet/dry control, you can't pass the intensity as a wet/dry, its just not true so i ask, why write this?
May 13, 2014 at 8:55 pm #136634MookakianMember
i think we all know what a wet/dry control does on a pedal, and Eventide does not have one on the modfactor period.
May 13, 2014 at 9:07 pm #136636wedelichModeratorEventide Staff
I'm sorry you don't believe me, but what I wrote is entirely truthful. We had to come up a with a generic knob name that would cover a multitude of functions (including wet/dry mix) across algorithms, and we landed on Intensity.
What is it that you are trying to do with your ModFactor that you thought the Wet/Dry mix would be the solution for? Perhaps I can help you with a specific issue?
May 13, 2014 at 9:09 pm #136637MookakianMember
Ok thanks for the needed push, if this is your answer for a wet/dry I am def. out, shame you could not do something better, seems a waste
May 13, 2014 at 9:17 pm #136638MookakianMember
Its the bandpass that I struggle to use most, it just kills the signal but it is such a great effect when you can mix in the guitar signal to give it some organic tone on top of the bandpass filter. Moog do a good unit so I will go there indtead
May 13, 2014 at 9:38 pm #136639MookakianMember
No hard feeling towards Eventide, I love the Timefactor, but the mix knob on modulation is something I need not want. Enjoy the MF rockers, fear nothing!
May 13, 2014 at 9:48 pm #136640st.bedeMember
First, thank you very much for stepping in. I am grateful for Eventide's hands on approach. This is one of the reasons that I have bought 3 of your stomp boxes. I am confident that Eventide is going to support the product in a solid way for a lengthy time. I have not found this to be true with other companies, including some that I love.
Second, as I went through my modfactory algorithms, I was impressed that with the fx that are acting like a wet/dry (and even with other that are not), when I set intensity to min value and switched back and forth from active to bypass, the tone of my guitar stayed the same. It was hard to tell if the pedal was active or not. I like that. I my mind, it suggest really quality a/d conversion taking place.
The only thing I came up with was, I think I could see a use for the mod filter not dropping all the way out. Maybe that is there but I have yet to really utilize that algorithm.
Maybe what we are looking at is more ability to shape the eq (Q or multiply frequencies… IDK) within filter type settings?
But I just went through this fast.
Another thing I was very happy about was how subtle I could get the chorus to be.
I will think more about this but overall I am a happy camper.
May 13, 2014 at 9:52 pm #136641st.bedeMember
I think Eventide is trying to work with you. Peace
May 13, 2014 at 10:10 pm #136642MookakianMember
Agreed St Bede, but trying to pass the intensity as a wet/dry is a little off, the intensity does not mix the guitar signalwith the modulation, but instead replaces it as you dial up. To blend and to replace is a different thing.
I appreciate the help guys, in all I just wanted to be able to use the pedal, can't to suit everyone.
May 13, 2014 at 10:24 pm #136643MookakianMember
PS Even if I turn the volume up to +6Db (holding the left footswitch in play mode) there is a significant volume drop when using the bandpass filter, it may just be usable without the mix knob if not for this volume drop but its pretty bad.
May 14, 2014 at 2:39 pm #136646wedelichModeratorEventide Staff
I was honestly trying to start a discussion about what a mix knob would mean for modulation effects, I wasn't digging my heels in the sand with a "No, we're not doing that." To that end, I believe it is useful if we all know what the Intensity knob is doing on a per algorithm basis. In some cases, yes, it is a wet/dry mixer, but in the case you seem to care the most about, ModFilter, it is not (I never said it was).
In ModFilter the Intensity knob sets the center frequency and Q at which the filter modulation happens around. The Xknob is actually used in stereo mode for spreading the filter sweeping waves up to 180 degrees out of phase, so we can't do a wet/dry mix on the Xknob. But it sounds like what you really need to do is mix in your dry signal with the bandpass filter. This would create a peaking filter of sorts.
We could probably add a peaking filter option to the filter types, and I bet this will get you most of the sound you're looking for.
May 14, 2014 at 4:21 pm #136649st.bedeMember
First, again thank you. I can not express how cool it is that Eventide is supporting their pedals like this. I am very grateful.
I would fully dig a peak filter.
I do not own a H9 but a whole set of different filters and/or being able to combine two filters and adjust the frequency at which they center at would induce extreme desire to own. Throw in some cool modulations and a full ASDR, that would be killer.
May 14, 2014 at 6:00 pm #136653MookakianMember
I really need the guitar signal to be in the mix, as I said, can't please everyone and thanks for the time ET, but the mix is needed for me
May 14, 2014 at 9:45 pm #136656MookakianMember
And the volume drop is too intense even with the master up on 6Db
October 27, 2014 at 11:23 pm #137526drifterphaseParticipant
Hi. Thanks for the explanations. I have a question still. You say that for the phaser effect the intensity control will not allow for a 100% dry setting. I want the opposite – 100% wet. Is that achievable in the phaser effect?
July 26, 2016 at 9:33 pm #143936gchildersParticipant
I ended up on this old thread after getting frustrated with the flanger algorighm on my H9. I like the sounds I get out of this flanger, but oftentimes, even with the intensity and depth set to 0, it’s still just too much. For example, there’s a factory preset called “Long Flyby.” Sounds really cool, but it would be a lot more useful to me if I could have less of it. The issue from my perspective isn’t so much that it doesn’t go down to zero, but that it doesn’t seem to do anything less than extreme flanging. I would trade almost any knob on this algorithm for a mix knob! Am I missing something? Any suggestions?
August 2, 2016 at 9:56 pm #144011joinpobobMember
Yes, I agree, that sometimes, even at a minimum setting, the effect is too much. While I have not investigated this, perhpaps it could be made more subtle by using parallel routing?
The moderator explained above that for some effects, the mix cannot be changed to zero. While I get that for some effects to work, the input to the effect cannot be zero, but it would still be nice to be able to change the amount the effect is mixed back into the signal. Maybe it is a pre / post routing issue?
Not to complain too much, but I get the fact that most mod pedlas do not have mix pots. However, 1. the H9 is not supposed to be “most pedals”; 2. wouldn’t it be somewhat of an easy fix to add a mix at the end of the processing; 3. my vintage small stone is much more organic than the H9 phaser, so give me some reason to use the H9 phaser.
August 3, 2016 at 5:24 am #144012MookakianMember
Unfortunately i gave up and sold her, went Chase Bliss and never looking back. Sorry Eventide but this one is a deal breaker for me and many by the looks… so odd its not being addressed but thats part of the reason I am steering to other products, seems Eventide are a bit busy to provide needs that are met by many other companies making great units, maybe time to catch up guys
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