Anyone else screaming for a mix on Modfactor

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    • #111604
      Mookakian
      Member

      Seems insane, some effects I get need to be wet all the way, not all! Bar rotary the others do not have a mix knob… I for one would be most impressed with a mix knob, so many options and to miss this is nuts,  mix control is so powerful but not available!!

      So let E-Tide know! Please 🙂

      You can do it Eventide! Mix it down for us, the X-Knob does nothing most of the time, use that!

    • #125884
      underwood
      Member

      +1

    • #125886
      st.bede
      Member

      +1

    • #125889
      derelict78
      Member

      This is THE reason I don't own a modfactor. 

    • #136611
      Mookakian
      Member

      Yeah I am about to sell mine actually, too important!

    • #125899
      batmanarm67
      Member

      +1

    • #125903
      kiboo
      Member

      +1

    • #136617
      dimitris1179
      Participant

      +1

    • #125907
      st.bede
      Member

      I totally dig the use/reason for an intensity compared to a wet/dry mix. I am not sure how many modulation fx come with a wet/dry mix. Off the top of my head, I can not really think of any of my other stomp boxes that do. Because of that, I would be very happy for a universal wet/dry or intensity setting in the utility menu. Peace 

    • #125916
      Mookakian
      Member

      We could just use the X-Knob too St bede, it is not used a lot of the time but you are right, even in the utilities menu for the wet/dry setting would be very nice indeed!

    • #136627
      underwood
      Member

      I would like a preset mix setting, not a global mix setting.

    • #136629
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Ok, I've been thinking about this thread, and figure we've got explaining to do.  In general, I agree that modulation effects don't usually have wet/dry mix knobs (please enlighten me on the ones that do).  This is because the way you build a modulation effect is to mix your dry signal with some modulated, delayed, and/or filtered signal.  Other times the mix knob just doesn't make sense, and wouldn't have an outcome any different than turning the depth to 0 (filtering effects, tremolo, vibrato). That being said, the intensity knob the MF algorithms does already actually do wet/dry mixing in the majority of cases (thought not always to completely dry).  I'll go through this per algorithm. 

      Chorus:  Among other things, the Intensity knob does control the wet/dry mix of the original signal and the delayed / modulated voices.  Doesn't go all the way to zero, we assumed people would just bypass.    

      Phaser: This is really a filtering effect, achieved my modulating allpass filters (filters that effect phase or small values of frequency dependent delays, but pass amplitude at 0 dB), so the explanation below for QWah kind of applies.  That said, it the Intensity knob still does some wet/dry mixing, though, like chorus, not all the way to zero.     

      Q-Wah:  doesn't make sense to have Wet/Dry.  Adding the dry signal would change the filtering response to something more like a peaking filter. 

      Flanger: Same as chorus 

      ModFilter:  same as Q-Wah

      Rotary: This does have a wet/dry, even though we didn't think it made too much sense to do it at first, but we liked the sound of it (comb filtering and all), so we implemented it after people asked for it.  

      TremoloPan:  Doesn't need a wet/dry, use the depth for this or simply bypass it.  

      Vibrato: Intensity is wet/dry mix

      Undulator: Intensity is wet/dry mix

      RingMod: Intensity is wet/dry mix

      So, in reality, we're only actually talking about three algorithms, of the which the whole effect is accomplished by mixing your dry signal with other signals, and the Intensity knob on these is already doing wet/dry mixing in order to give varying degrees of the effect.   

    • #136630
      Imerkat
      Member

      makes me wonder how the killdry works in those effects

    • #136631
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      I just glanced at the code, and for the most part, it does what you would expect, it mutes the dry paths.  I say most part because I didn't spend all day reverse engineering it, but I'm fairly confident in my assessment.    

    • #136633
      Mookakian
      Member

      No the intensity does not give a wet/dry mix knob…on any of the setting bar rotary. What it does is very different than a wet/dry control, you can't pass the intensity as a wet/dry, its just not true so i ask, why write this?

    • #136634
      Mookakian
      Member

      i think we all know what a wet/dry control does on a pedal, and Eventide does not have one on the modfactor period.

    • #136636
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      I'm sorry you don't believe me, but what I wrote is entirely truthful.  We had to come up a with a generic knob name that would cover a multitude of functions (including wet/dry mix) across algorithms, and we landed on Intensity.   

      What is it that you are trying to do with your ModFactor that you thought the Wet/Dry mix would be the solution for?  Perhaps I can help you with a specific issue?  

    • #136637
      Mookakian
      Member

      Ok thanks for the needed push, if this is your answer for a wet/dry I am def. out, shame you could not do something better, seems a waste

    • #136638
      Mookakian
      Member

      Its the bandpass that I struggle to use most, it just kills the signal but it is such a great effect when you can mix in the guitar signal to give it some organic tone on top of the bandpass filter. Moog do a good unit so I will go there indtead

    • #136639
      Mookakian
      Member

      No hard feeling towards Eventide, I love the Timefactor, but the mix knob on modulation is something I need not want. Enjoy the MF rockers, fear nothing!

    • #136640
      st.bede
      Member

      First, thank you very much for stepping in. I am grateful for Eventide's hands on approach. This is one of the reasons that I have bought 3 of your stomp boxes. I am confident that Eventide is going to support the product in a solid way for a lengthy time. I have not found this to be true with other companies, including some that I love.

      Second, as I went through my modfactory algorithms, I was impressed that with the fx that are acting like a wet/dry (and even with other that are not), when I set intensity to min value and switched back and forth from active to bypass, the tone of my guitar stayed the same. It was hard to tell if the pedal was active or not. I like that. I my mind, it suggest really quality a/d conversion taking place.

      The only thing I came up with was, I think I could see a use for the mod filter not dropping all the way out. Maybe that is there but I have yet to really utilize that algorithm.

      Maybe what we are looking at is more ability to shape the eq (Q or multiply frequencies… IDK) within filter type settings?

      But I just went through this fast.

      Another thing I was very happy about was how subtle I could get the chorus to be.

      I will think more about this but overall I am a happy camper.

    • #136641
      st.bede
      Member

      I think Eventide is trying to work with you. Peace

    • #136642
      Mookakian
      Member

      Agreed St Bede, but trying to pass the intensity as a wet/dry is a little off, the intensity does not mix the guitar signalwith the modulation, but instead replaces it as you dial up.  To blend and to replace is a different thing.

      I appreciate the help guys, in all I just wanted to be able to use the pedal, can't to suit everyone.

    • #136643
      Mookakian
      Member

      PS Even if I turn the volume up to +6Db (holding the left footswitch in play mode) there is a significant volume drop when using the bandpass filter, it may just be usable without the mix knob if not for this volume drop but its pretty bad.

    • #136646
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      I was honestly trying to start a discussion about what a mix knob would mean for modulation effects, I wasn't digging my heels in the sand with a "No, we're not doing that."  To that end, I believe it is useful if we all know what the Intensity knob is doing on a per algorithm basis.  In some cases, yes, it is a wet/dry mixer, but in the case you seem to care the most about, ModFilter, it is not (I never said it was).   

      In ModFilter the Intensity knob sets the center frequency and Q at which the filter modulation happens around.  The Xknob is actually used in stereo mode for spreading the filter sweeping waves up to 180 degrees out of phase, so we can't do a wet/dry mix on the Xknob.   But it sounds like what you really need to do is mix in your dry signal with the bandpass filter.  This would create a peaking filter of sorts. 

      We could probably add a peaking filter option to the filter types, and I bet this will get you most of the sound you're looking for.  

    • #136649
      st.bede
      Member

      First, again thank you. I can not express how cool it is that Eventide is supporting their pedals like this. I am very grateful. Smile

      I would fully dig a peak filter.

      I do not own a H9 but a whole set of different filters and/or being able to combine two filters and adjust the frequency at which they center at would induce extreme desire to own. Throw in some cool modulations and a full ASDR, that would be killer.

    • #136653
      Mookakian
      Member

      I really need the guitar signal to be in the mix, as I said, can't please everyone and thanks for the time ET, but the mix is needed for me

    • #136656
      Mookakian
      Member

      And the volume drop is too intense even with the master up on 6Db

    • #137526
      drifterphase
      Member

      Hi.  Thanks for the explanations.  I have a question still.  You say that for the phaser effect the intensity control will not allow for a 100% dry setting.  I want the opposite – 100% wet.  Is that achievable in the phaser effect?

      Thanks!

    • #143936
      gchilders
      Participant

      I ended up on this old thread after getting frustrated with the flanger algorighm on my H9. I like the sounds I get out of this flanger, but oftentimes, even with the intensity and depth set to 0, it’s still just too much. For example, there’s a factory preset called “Long Flyby.” Sounds really cool, but it would be a lot more useful to me if I could have less of it. The issue from my perspective isn’t so much that it doesn’t go down to zero, but that it doesn’t seem to do anything less than extreme flanging. I would trade almost any knob on this algorithm for a mix knob! Am I missing something? Any suggestions?

    • #144011
      joinpobob
      Member

      Hi, 

      Yes, I agree, that sometimes, even at a minimum setting, the effect is too much.  While I have not investigated this, perhpaps it could be made more subtle by using parallel routing?  

      The moderator explained above that for some effects, the mix cannot be changed to zero.  While I get that for some effects to work, the input to the effect cannot be zero, but it would still be nice to be able to change the amount the effect is mixed back into the signal.  Maybe it is a pre / post routing issue?  

      Not to complain too much, but I get the fact that most mod pedlas do not have mix pots.  However, 1. the H9 is not supposed to be “most pedals”; 2. wouldn’t it be somewhat of an easy fix to add a mix at the end of the processing; 3. my vintage small stone is much more organic than the H9 phaser, so give me some reason to use the H9 phaser. 

    • #144012
      Mookakian
      Member

      Unfortunately i gave up and sold her, went Chase Bliss and never looking back. Sorry Eventide but this one is a deal breaker for me and many by the looks… so odd its not being addressed but thats part of the reason I am steering to other products, seems Eventide are a bit busy to provide needs that are met by many other companies making great units, maybe time to catch up guys

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