Best algorithm for Tom Misch/John Mayer auto wah/filter sounds?

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    • #115736
      birthofahero
      Member

      Hey guys, Ive been demoing a few algorithms on the H9 the last few days and cant decide on which one I want to create that nice, fat envelope filter/auto wah. Specifically the sound on Tom Misch’s solo in this performance of “I Wish” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUMTaAQ43lY&t=8m14s

       

      So far the Bass Auto Wah preset on the ModFilter algo is the closest but its still missing something and I cant seem to tweak it enough within the demo time frame. 

      Anyone using the H9 for this kind of sound? What are you using and do you have any tips for dialing this in? Thanks.

    • #153939
      the.godfather
      Member

      I’d also like to hear what people have got for this kind of sound. I’ve been looking for that Jerry Garcia, fat envelope sound for a while now and haven’t been able to coax it out of my H9’s perfectly yet. It’s close-ish with the Q-Wah. I’ve been thinking of cutting my losses and making room for a Mu-Tron on my board at some point.

    • #153943
      brock
      Participant

      Love those Tiny Desk concerts.  Pick technique went a long way here in getting those sweeps & variations.  I can tell you that SENSITIVITY is the real key to unlocking the H9 Envelope power.  That, along with its interactive target parameter [like filter frequency, etc.), and your individual playing technique.

      I see what you’re looking for, with that full-sounding sweep across the entire filter range.  Cleaner & much different from an vintage Mutron III .  There are many, many options to choose from, among the various H9 algorithms.  Let me see what I have here, or what I can come up with.

    • #153996
      brock
      Participant

      Not yet.  Craziness abounds with the Super Bowl in town.

      I haven’t forgotten.  It’s just going to take a bit to get to it.

    • #153998
      brock
      Participant

      It was faster to come up with a base preset.  Q-Wah was the 1st algorithm to come to mind, with the BassWAH TYPE providing an extended range.  It held up pretty well against your YouTube link.  That is, from a quick run on a Steinberger bridge pickup, a touch of clean boost in front, but no compression.  Clean Vox amps.

      SENSITIVITY is where you start:  match your playing style & picking strength.  Give it a good range of picking dynamics to chew on.  OUT LEVEL, if you need to gain-stage here.  Check the Input & Output Level Meters.

      Q-INTENSITY (effect mix / depth), DEPTH, SENSITIVITY, and BOTTOM are going to be interactive.  Don’t worry about the ‘bottom row’ for now [TEMPO, DEPTH MOD, SPEED MOD, MOD SENS MOD SOURCE].

      • Set your base SENSITIVITY level.  Small tweaks on everything else
      • Too harsh on the high end?  Bring down Q-INTENSITY or DEPTH; bring up the BOTTOM.
      • Not enough effect?  Bring up the DEPTH, Q-INTENSITY.
      • Don’t max any interactive control out; up or down.  25 to 75 range; small increments.

      Plenty of other options (algorithms) to choose from, but let’s start here.

    • #154007
      brock
      Participant

      It’d be easy to overlook the Harmadillo algorithm as envelope triggered filter.  Not really ‘synthy’, but featuring a distinct, squeaky-clean sweep.  It can have elements of both the Up & DOWN directions in a Mutron, in the same filter sweep.  Really responsive to playing technique.

      The only parameters required here are the X-OVER, X-OVERLAP, and ENV X-OVER controls.  RATE, SHAPE, ENV DEPTH, and ENV RATE lie ‘hidden’ in the background.  (The DEPTH control at 0 defeats the tremolo section).

      I assigned that to an expression pedal, to bring in some vibrato-like modulation.  The GRAPH VIEW image below shows the expression pedal at full toe (DEPTH to 75).

    • #154008
      the.godfather
      Member

      I wish I could ‘up vote’ those posts. Great, detailed information as per usual Brock. This really gives me something to work through when I finally get a ‘free’ weekend! 

    • #154018
      birthofahero
      Member

      Wow brock….that is an insane amount of incredibly useful and practical information on the Eventide algorithms as a family. Really helped me better understand how powerful this machine is. Ive had a real fun time demoing these sounds and using your information to better understand what algorithm would best suit my needs. I cant thank you enough for taking the time to do that. 

       

      I think the modfilter got me the closest out of everything but Im still hesitant to pull the trigger on that algorithm for one sound. Im leaning towards making the q wah work since I can also utilize the wah aspect with an expression pedal. Although I’m sure I could make the modfilter work as a traditional wah as well…so back to experimenting I go.

    • #153967
      birthofahero
      Member
      brock wrote:

      Love those Tiny Desk concerts.  Pick technique went a long way here in getting those sweeps & variations.  I can tell you that SENSITIVITY is the real key to unlocking the H9 Envelope power.  That, along with its interactive target parameter [like filter frequency, etc.), and your individual playing technique.

      I see what you’re looking for, with that full-sounding sweep across the entire filter range.  Cleaner & much different from an vintage Mutron III .  There are many, many options to choose from, among the various H9 algorithms.  Let me see what I have here, or what I can come up with.

      Thanks so much! I’m new here but I know when Brock says he’ll help, it’s the real deal! Appreciate any info you can share. Thanks!

    • #153995
      birthofahero
      Member
      brock wrote:

      Love those Tiny Desk concerts.  Pick technique went a long way here in getting those sweeps & variations.  I can tell you that SENSITIVITY is the real key to unlocking the H9 Envelope power.  That, along with its interactive target parameter [like filter frequency, etc.), and your individual playing technique.

      I see what you’re looking for, with that full-sounding sweep across the entire filter range.  Cleaner & much different from an vintage Mutron III .  There are many, many options to choose from, among the various H9 algorithms.  Let me see what I have here, or what I can come up with.

      Hey just check g to see if you got a chance to browse some algos for this sound. Really appreciate any help, this sound is something I’ve been trying to accomplish for a while and have tried about 6 different pedals including a microtron, Mobius and a snow white. I can’t find the sound!

    • #154006
      brock
      Participant

      Here’s the algorithm you started with: ModFilter.  Yes, I think it can be close to what you’re after, but slightly varied in the sound results.  To me, the LOWPASS filter sounds like a 2-pole, with some soft saturation.

      The envelope follower is probably built exactly the same as other, similar algorithms, but it “feels” different (with identical settings & the same guitar setup).  Holds the filter open a little longer.

      I started with that BASS AUTO WAH preset, and tweaked it from there.  A little more ‘synthy’ to my ears trhan your example, but not in a bad way.  Again, the same kind of ‘tweaking rules’ apply here (as above).

      The 2nd ‘bottom row’ controls are optional, but I added a touch of ADSR to this one.  It opened up the filter sweep with another layer that wasn’t too obvious.

    • #154013
      brock
      Participant
      Compelled To Get Longwinded, I wrote:
      Yes, Godfather.  I remember free weekends.  Barely.  My point with the ‘variety pack’ here is to show some different ways to attack a particular ‘problem’.  That’s the beauty of this kind of system.  There are common parameters among many of the algorithms.  So a transferrable skill set.  But each algorithm brings its own unique strengths & quirks.  So, instead of sticking with one hardware envelope wah, you have a half-dozen or more ‘flavors’.  A go-to E-Wah, synth-like variations, E-Wah plus Auto-Wah, E-Phase-Wah, vocal, mellow, …

      So, SCULPT.  Yes, that’s right.  Digital distortion.  We just won’t use the distortion components.

      I adjusted every parameter here for the desired effect, so I’ll detail that below.  The peaking filters here are throaty & vocal-like.  Not quite a Q-WAH formant envelope, but getting there.

      • MIX I left in some dry signal for the pick attack.
      • BAND MIX  Equal distribution.
      • XOVER  Midrange.  Seemed about right.
      • LOW-DRIVE  None.
      • HIGH-DRIVE  None.
      • COMPRESSOR  Tied to an expression pedal.  Rounds out & lengthens the envelope, dynamically.
      • GATE OFF  Don’t want to choke the envelope off.
      • LOW BOOST  Smooths out the low end [POST DIST]
      • FILTER-PRE  Reinforced both filters in tandem; set to sweep fairly high [~2600 Hz.]
      • FILTER-POST  Reinforced both filters in tandem; set to sweep fairly high [~2600 Hz.]
      • ENV-FILTER  Works for me @ SENS 35.  Tweak to taste.
      • OUT LEVEL  I had to double the amplitude to get near unity gain.

      No doubt we’re drifting away from the original Tiny Desk sound now, but there’s something delicately special going on here.  Playable.  Nice range & balance of dynamics and sweeps.  Of course distortion is going to accentuate the filters even more, but I’m sticking with the clean variations.

      The variable compression is ‘transparent’ in this config, but it smoothy affects the filter envelope.  The EQ CURVES view below shows the expression pedal at full toe:

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