Controlling Strymon Sunset with H9 (midi)

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    • #115221
      danisev2001
      Member

      Hello,

      I would like to know if I can control the Strymon Sunset by means of H9 (via midi). I don’t know anything about midi. The idea is to define presets with effects in H9. Each H9 preset would have a midi command to control a sunset preset (overdrive preset)

      Thanks in advance, Daniel

    • #151422
      camn
      Participant

      Yes you can do just that.

      Read these, in order. It’s just 20 minutes of your time.

      https://www.noterepeat.com/articles/how-to/213-midi-basics-common-terms-explained

      https://www.eventideaudio.com/community/forum/stompboxes/h9-midi-control-0

      https://www.strymon.net/faq/control-sunset-with-midi/

      Then give it a try.
      If you are having trouble… Holla back. We believe in you!

    • #151426
      camn
      Participant

      I think just this would do it!

      https://store.strymon.net/midi-exp-cable/

    • #151436
      danisev2001
      Member

      This what Strymon people told me:

      Hi Daniel,

      Thanks for supporting Strymon!

      If the H9 can send MIDI PCs, then you are able to use that to recall presets on the Sunset. you will need either our MIDI EXP cable or something like the Empress MIDI box to go from 5 pin DIN to 1/4″ MIDI.

      Every MIDI PC corresponds to a preset on the Sunset, for example PC 0 is the first preset, PC 1 is the second preset, etc.

      https://www.strymon.net/manuals/Sunset_UserManual_RevB.pdf (Page 15 is where the MIDI index starts)

      The manual will walk through how to set up the pedal to accept MIDI via the EXP Jack. Remember to make sure it is on the same MIDI channel as your H9.

      Let me know if you have any more questions!

      I would say that is not possible beacause as far as I know you cannot control that midi codes by means of the H9

      :…(

      Tell me if I’m wrong.

      Regards, Daniel.

      • #151439
        bohan
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        danisev2001 wrote:
        I would say that is not possible because as far as I know, you cannot control that midi codes by means of the H9…Tell me if I’m wrong.

        Since you asked, let me tell you that you were wrong…

        By default, switching presets on H9 from 0-99 would send MIDI Program Change number 0-99.

    • #151438
      camn
      Participant

      Of course it is possible.
      The H9 midi map sends a PC message for each preset.

      ~Programming~ the Sunset might be kind of tricksy. I am under the impression it is similar to the CB line.. Where you hold something and feed it the message…. So you have to actually dial in your settings with the H9 one preset away… But it is doable on the fly.

      You just need to get the cable and get to work. Don’t be intimidated! You can do it!

    • #151440
      danisev2001
      Member

      Thanks a million for your replies. 

      Bohan I found this:

      https://www.eventideaudio.com/community/forum/stompboxes/h9-transmit-midi-pc-cc

       

      I’ve read the sunset manual and I think that I need to send midi PC & CC numbers to sunset. You said this is not possible with the H9.

       

      Thanks a million, Daniel.

       

       

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      • #151442
        bohan
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        danisev2001 wrote:

        I've read the sunset manual and I think that I need to send midi PC & CC numbers to sunset. You said this is not possible with the H9.

        Well, H9 can send both CC and PC. However, H9 is a pedal, not a MIDI controller. So it cannot send multiple CC and PC messages simultaneously when you switch presets.

        When you switch presets on H9, Sunset will switch accordingly based on the PC messages it receives from H9. You can adjust parameters on H9 and Sunset's parameters can be changed as well based on mapped CC messages. If you use Aux switches or Expression pedal on your H9, H9 can also send MIDI CC to control your Sunset as well.

        You may set your H9 CC output mappings by:

        1. Press and hold HOTKNOB button and right footswitch to enter setting menu.

        2. Go to MIDI -> XMT CC

        3. Now you can set MIDI CC messages that H9 sends out when you adjust H9's 10 parameters, expression pedal, or 3 aux switches.

        It's nice that H9's CC mappings are flexible, so you may map them to whatever CC that Sunset's functions expect.

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    • #151443
      camn
      Participant

      Don’t get too complicated. You can do it with just PC messages.

      Get the cable.
      Reread my fist post.
      Profit.

    • #151447
      danisev2001
      Member

      You are right. I’m going to buy the cable. 

       

      Thanks for your answers 

    • #151580
      jpallot
      Participant

      Hello, sorry for newbie question, love my H9 and making my first foray into MIDI. I would like the act of selecting an H9 preset to trigger the loading of an Infinity preset that goes wtih that same song. I *think* that means having the H9 send a Program Change message that initiates an Infinity Song Select command.

       

      Am I barking up the proverbial wrong tree? Any suggestions/advice/pointers to instructions? Thank you!

      • #151581
        brock
        Participant
        jpallot wrote:
        … selecting an H9 preset to trigger the loading of an Infinity preset that goes wtih that same song. I *think* that means having the H9 send a Program Change message that initiates an Infinity Song Select command …

        That would be one logical way to implement it.  But Pigtronix chose to use a System Common message – Song Select (equally logical, I suppose).  That is more commonly sent by a drum machine, or computer DAW.  The H9 doesn’t send that.  Program Changes (a distinctly different MIDI command), CC messages, MIDI Clock …

        I don’t know if that has changed with any newer Infinity update.  I haven’t been religious about updating mine.

    • #151582
      jpallot
      Participant

      Got it, thanks for clarifying that–I’m not surprised to find out this will be more difficult than I was hoping ;(

      I’m actually meeting someone from Pigtronix on Saturday, I’ll ask him directly re: updates/workarounds and share any info.

      Meanwhile, since you are obviously knowledgeable about this stuff, any idea if a Disaster Area DMC-3XL would solve this? i.e. simultaneously control H9 and Infinity, and display song name as I cycle through presets?

      • #151587
        brock
        Participant
        jpallot wrote:
        … any idea if a Disaster Area DMC-3XL would solve this? i.e. simultaneously control H9 and Infinity, and display song name as I cycle through presets?

        Funny, I was just looking at the Disaster Area stuff today, as a potential solution for you.  Even the tiny one, if board space was at a premium.  What bothers me about them is that I found no specific mention of Song Select.  Something that needs to be clarified.  A lot of devices claim to send “any MIDI message”, but it often turns out to be “any MIDI message that we find to be commonly used or useful”.

        I was going to suggest some kind of master MIDI control, depending on your needs.  Let your effects processors “process”, & perform as Thru devices [Master -> H9 -> Infinity].  I use an MPX-1 rack as my MIDI generator, out to everything else.  MIDI Clock master, CC effects, footswitched or pedal Start, Stop, etc.   I don’t load Infinity songs on-the-fly via MIDI, though.  It takes about 4 seconds minimum to load, as it is.

        As I said above, I’ve seen (or used) Song Select XMIT on drum machines, hardware sequences, DAWS, iPhone apps.  I’d be reluctant to recommend a tethered option as your only source for master control.  I need to check into my MIDI Solutions Event Processor Plus.   Inline; no power required, retained settings.  My thought was a conversion between Program Change and Song Select.  As I recall, the EPP was weak on conversions to System Common & Real Time conversions.  Perhaps even their Footswitch box may fill the bill.

        I wanted to give you a few avenues to pursue for Song Select-specific solutions.  I still think – if you want to take MIDI anywhere – that a central ‘master’ device is going to give you a lot more options, a good MIDI clock, and hopefully the parameter control you’re looking for.  There are a lot of those to choose from now; more cost-effective by the day.  I may have to switch over to something similar myself, as I have some needs now for Chase Bliss-type TRS MIDI control.

    • #151585
      camn
      Participant

      The DMC doesn’t have full support for the infinity.. Though it does for OTHER pigtronix devices.

      If you could cobble together preset switching for the infinity, it has full support for the H9

    • #151586
      camn
      Participant

      It looks like you can increment and decrement presets with cc messages on the pigtronix… Maybe if you setup your stuff in order you cooild manage it…. But it seems nontrivial.

    • #151588
      jpallot
      Participant

      Nontrivial indeed! And odd, because I can’t be the only one who hates the idea of having to bend down and fiddle with manual switches in between every song. Thanks for the input, I’ve emailed Pigtronix to see if they recommend a controller, I’ll share any (useful) info I get back.

    • #151589
      jpallot
      Participant

      Nontrivial indeed! And odd, because I can’t be the only one who hates the idea of having to bend down and fiddle with manual switches in between every song. Thanks for the input, I’ve emailed Pigtronix to see if they recommend a controller, I’ll share any (useful) info I get back.

    • #151594
      jpallot
      Participant

      Wow Brock that is super-informative and helpful, thank you! The EPP looks like a promising possibility. And the dimensions are right – I cram all my stuff onto two Mono Lite boards (easier to stow as two separate units), and I have exactly 5″ x 2.75″ of real estate left 😉 

       

    • #151596
      camn
      Participant

      Hey Brock the DMC has full support for Chase Bliss. I had to build a cable for it, but that WAS trivial. 

       

      Though.. I think I am done with MIDI control for a while.

       

       

    • #151597
      brock
      Participant

      Good to know about the Class Bliss compatibility.  Some of my newer devices almost demand MIDI control.  The trend is toward multi-function everything on the front panel, less connectivity, in smaller packages.

      Two thoughts on the Event Processor (Plus):

      • You may be able to fit it under that board.  It’d be tight.  That’s where I’ve mounted mine.  You really don’t need any access to it, other than the MIDI-DIN cables.  Once you program it, it’s done (until you need another set of functions).  The Plus version is a little more costly, but I’ve found that I end up using the additional Settings.
      •  
      • If you’d like to see a programming application, here’s a local link.  It’s easier than it appears.
      • https://www.eventideaudio.com/comment/25417#comment-25417
      •  
      • Now, the big one.  5V power over MIDI, from the [H9 -> EPP -> Infinity].  Not all H9’s do it.  All of mine don’t.  The DIY fix was never detailed here on the forum.  Apparently, Serial #16329 (and above) is the dividing line.
      •  
      • Here’s the background on that info:
      • https://www.eventideaudio.com/comment/26887#comment-26887
      • https://www.eventideaudio.com/comment/22601#comment-22601

    • #151599
      jpallot
      Participant

      None of our controllers have the Infinity as a specific device, but the General MIDI mode may allow you to scroll thru patches and change presets.

       

      Both the DMC.micro and the DMC-4 Gen3 have a General MIDI option and can control an H9 as well.” (emphasis mine)

       

       

    • #151602
      brock
      Participant

      Thank you for that, Nick.  Looks easy enough.  I just might try it out, whether I need it or not.

      I’d have expected a more specific answer from Disaster Area.  I’ve seen some stellar support replies from them.  General MIDI support means nothing, well beyond all the variations & implementations.  How about “I hooked it up to my MIDI Monitor right in front of me, and I see that it {does / does not} send 0xF3 with values 0-9.”?  Or, “When I go through the transmit parameter list, I {do / do not} see Song Select there.”

    • #151604
      camn
      Participant

      You certainly can ~Scroll~… using CC mode.
      BUT jumping to a preset is probably impossible.

    • #151613
      jpallot
      Participant

      Yes, the MIDI Solutions Event Processors can be programmed to map incoming Program Change events to different outgoing Program Change events. It is also possible to conserve settings by mapping ranges of values, for example a single setting mapping incoming PCs 1 – 3 to outgoing PCs 65 – 67 would achieve the following:

      PC1 mapped to PC65

      PC2 mapped to PC66

      PC3 mapped to PC67

       

      I should also point out that the Event Processors draw power from the device that is connected to their MIDI input, and the Eventide H9 has been reported not to provide power to the MIDI Solutions products (see 
      CTRL + Click to follow link”>
      http://www.midisolutions.com/faqs.htm#List). There is however a workaround which is to first connect the H9’s MIDI output to the MIDI input of some other MIDI device, then MIDI Thru from that device to the MIDI input of the Event Processor. If you don’t have any other devices that can be used for this purpose then the MIDI Solutions Power Adapter can also resolve the problem, for more information see 
      CTRL + Click to follow link”>
      http://www.midisolutions.com/prodpwr.htm.

       

    • #151628
      brock
      Participant

      I see that you got a reply on TGP.  Not sure if / when Pigtronix implemented 1:1 with PC -> Preset Slots.

      https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/advanced-midi-for-pigtronix-infinity-looper.1792525/page-3#post-28310808

      I’ll test it out when I can.  Another “looper” has taken over my Infinity slot for the foreseeable future, but it’s stored close by.  At any rate, I hope this works out for you, and we all learned something new from this.  Just make sure of the matched MIDI Channels, and supplied 5V power from your H9.

    • #151633
      jpallot
      Participant

      Thanks Brock! I was *this* close to shelling out for an Event Programmer, so this was really saved by the bell.

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