DC-2 Dimension C with the H90

[Securb]

A while back, there were discussions about using the H9 to achieve DC-2 Dimension C sounds, and I know that some success was achieved, But some sounds and patches were elusive, requiring multiple algorithms. With the introduction of the H90, I was curious if there have been further developments or refinements in recreating the DC-2 pedal and its functionality now that we can run two algorithms at a time.

A friend of mine is considering joining the Eventide family, and this information would be incredibly helpful for them in making an informed decision. Moreover, I’m also genuinely curious about any advancements in this area.

[Hermetech]

It’s unfortunately not feasible with any of the current H90 algos as the DC-2 has a very idiosyncratic way of producing its effect. You need two trapezoidal shaped LFOs set 180 degrees out of phase with each other, to modulate the Delay times of two BBDs. It’s what gives it that subtle effect and sets it aside from all other choruses. Plus there are the ‘compansion’ circuits and EQ tweaks, with the Dry signal placed right in the middle around 50/50 with the Wet. You need to get the LFO times and depths just right.

I’ve owned the SDD-320 Dimension D, DC-2, DC-2W, DC-3 and Fromel Seraph Deluxe, loads of plugin  emulations, as well as a few classic non ‘Dimensional’ choruses, (CE-2, CE-2W, CE-300 etc). I’ve also owned an H9 (and now an H90) since 2015. Believe me, I’ve tried many times with the Eventides, but I can’t get very close at all.

The only algo that might give you the trapezoidal waves I can think of is Harmadillo, and I’m wondering if two instances set 180 degrees out of phase is possible? The Fat/Phat Sines look close. But then you will be modulating harmonic tremolo, not the delay times of a pair of BBDs. Still might be worth a try for an interesting effect though, I’ll give it a go!

[Hermetech]

I’ll try and attach some informative stuff that will maybe help people get a bit closer.

First, a block diagram of the DC-2, seems it’s just 1 LFO (and it’s inverted version) not 2 as I previously stated, apologies there.

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[Hermetech]

This tells you the exact LFO rates and all the other info needed to get the four original SDD-320 Modes.

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[Hermetech]

And this is a paper about an Eventide algorithm for the 7000, Orville and H8000 that attempts to emulate the SDD 320 Dimension D, and Dimension C, so I’m hoping it would be relatively easy for someone to at Eventide to port it to the H90, pretty please?

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[Hermetech]

That last document has a much better description of the circuit than I gave earlier, loads of great info.

[brock]

Thank you for all of that technical documentation, @Hermetech.  There is a lot of conflicting information out there with regards to the inner workings.  I am going to have another go at the Dimension effect, using these parameters.

I uploaded a Dimension-flavored Program about a year back, and got some good feedback on it.  But I was working within the confines of what I knew back then about the nuances of the H90.

And quite frankly, I didn’t have a DC to compare it to 1:1 (I still don’t), so I gave it my own take by ear and memory:

https://patchstorage.com/dimension-dce-2tb/

[Hermetech]

That’s great Brock, I’ll give it a go, looking forward to trying it out.

I sold most of mine and just kept the Fromel Seraph Deluxe and a DC-2W, but the Fromel is just waiting for me to put an ad on Reverb! Overall it’s an effect I use often enough to want to give it a permanent position on my board, it’s my fave effect of all time.

[brock]

I had seen the Eventide doc and block diagram flowchart before, but I am really liking that SDD-320 breakdown.  With fresh eyes, I should probably adapt that Program to use the 3 onboard HotSwitches + 3 Aux switches, or a full complement of 6 Aux switches to cover all of those potential modes.

My goal back then was to make it as hand-free as I could, and still cover some of the variations.  I don’t recall if I tried that “differentiated square wave” – Nick Rose’s description for the Peak waveform – but you might try that Program tweak in its double out-of-phase format.  It may / may not capture the trapezoidal lopsidedness a bit better.  I do remember that I had my reasons to choose double Triangle over double Sine.

[ndeshpande]

A disclaimer on what I’m about to say: Eventide modulation is its own distinct own thing. I think that what this thread has chased so far is a unique sound, and it’s all over many records that I love. I am not in the business of commenting on another company’s product aside from having respect for the aspects of product design (both technical and aesthetic) that I think they get correct, and perhaps being a little jealous of their market share. I’m not interested in showing users how to precisely clone sounds offered by our competitors, I view that as being in bad taste and disrespectful of the care that other engineers (who I’m sure work just as hard as I do) have taken to craft their specific sounds – even if said engineers might not extend the same courtesy to me.

At present it is not possible to precisely match the units mentioned in this thread… there’s enough going on under the hood in that class of effects that we will never implement. I might get a bit of heat for saying this, but it is my philosophy that if you want THAT sound I recommend you purchase a product from the company that designs and sells it, while noting that the H90 will comfortably allow stereo effects as an insert to be added in the signal chain as needed – you can keep both slots of the H90 open for two effects, while adding a specific flavor of sound you seek as a third.

What I can do is assist in getting H90 users in the ballpark of Eventide’s take on similar (but distinct) sounds. It’s uniquely Eventide, and there’s an absurd amount of depth still to be explored in your H90. Who knows, you might find you enjoy what is already in H90 more than anything else you’ve heard, but you won’t know until you explore what’s in there. I encourage such exploration, as – to quote one of my favorite bands – the point of a journey is not to arrive.

I suggest poking around the pitch shifting algorithms first. Notably, MicroPitch. Set the two detunes to equal but opposite values (I find the range of ±1 to ±5 cents pleasurable). 5-30ms of delay, with different delay values for both. 100% modulation depth, mod rate to taste. Feedback to taste (I suggest starting in the 40-70 range). Set the filter to be a low cut – I like about 15 to 20 (I can’t recall off the top of my head which +/- direction is high cut and which is low cut and I don’t have my H90 in front of me, set the knob to extremes and listen to figure out which is which). Lower detune values will allow for a higher treble-most pitch in the swirl/swoop of tones happening. Using the envelope as a modulator can help add extra shimmer as notes die out, or emphasize the attack of notes – depending on if positive or negative envelope is used.

Another option is H910/H949. Similar philosophy – use Micro mode, set detune values to anywhere from 0.990-1.010 (and don’t be afraid to have both be positive or negative), 5-30ms of delay to taste. I like this sound with feedback off, though your mileage may vary – experiment and see if you like feedback on. In particular, the different shift algorithms are VERY useful for tuning this algorithm to taste – I like H949-2 and H949-1 the most, but your ears may tell you differently – there’s no “right” answer for which shift algorithm to use!

Tricerachorus also has a lot of flexibility here outside of the classic three-phase chorus. Chorus and Chorale sound distinct and unique, and experiment with adding detune on top of the three chorus engines in the algorithm. I recommend starting with the CEO and CFO presets to begin, make note of the parameter ranges and try turning one knob at a time to understand how each parameter contributes to the overall swirl.

The Modfactor Chorus and Flanger algorithms are also very powerful. The key to both is understanding how Manual, Depth Mod, Speed Mod, and Mod Rate all interact with the deeper engine. Explore all types of Chorus and Flange – each sounds different. Back off on feedback for this algorithm to take on a subtler tone The H90 Manual has a few pointers, but they can only dance about architecture for so long until one sits down with the algorithms, plays, turns knobs, and experiments.

As always, with each of these algorithms the preset library has many options for starting flavors, and I encourage users to pay attention to how each knob is set in different presets to get a deeper understanding of how to squeeze the sounds one wants out of a given algorithm.

[brock]

I thoroughly enjoy your responses, @ndeshpande.  Rare, but always with a wealth of in-depth insights.

I think most of us here realize that Eventide products have their own unique flavors & distinct characteristics.  That’s why we’re here.  I can’t recall where any ET product (or even a factory preset) was out to directly ‘ape’ another device.  No need.  If anything, the reverse is true (products on the market chasing the Eventide “sound”).

I believe the intent in this thread – and many other similar ones – is not to clone any device in an exacting sense.  I know that I personally view this type of emulation challenge as sharpening my own Program design toolset.  I have a lot of fun doing just that, using the vast amount of H90 components I have at my disposal.  On the flip side, I can create sounds with it that I just can’t recreate with anything else.

And along the way, some other devices may get bumped off the ‘board because we can found a way to get close enough.  If there were ever a consolidation device, the H90 design is it.  I can say I’ve had mine over a year now, and I never run out of combinations to try, or a new way to look at what’s in there.  I appreciate your input here adding to that knowledge base.

[Securb]

Great reply from ET, and Brock put it perfectly. As I said, I was asking for a friend. For my applications, all of my other mod, delay, and harmonizing pedals have been moved off the board. I could not be happier with the flexibility and fantastic sounds the H90/9 give me.

[ndeshpande]

brock wrote:

I believe the intent in this thread – and many other similar ones – is not to clone any device in an exacting sense. I know that I personally view this type of emulation challenge as sharpening my own Program design toolset. I have a lot of fun doing just that, using the vast amount of H90 components I have at my disposal. On the flip side, I can create sounds with it that I just can’t recreate with anything else.

And along the way, some other devices may get bumped off the ‘board because we can found a way to get close enough. If there were ever a consolidation device, the H90 design is it. I can say I’ve had mine over a year now, and I never run out of combinations to try, or a new way to look at what’s in there.

Securb wrote:

As I said, I was asking for a friend. For my applications, all of my other mod, delay, and harmonizing pedals have been moved off the board. I could not be happier with the flexibility and fantastic sounds the H90/9 give me.

I wanted to take time to respond to both of you more directly. First, I’m stoked that the H90 is filling so many of your effects needs. The H90 is the only effect on my board, sitting between my guitar and my amp – but I also admit I’m biased. Users like you falling in love with the H90 is why we do what we do. So thank you – without the passion of users like you, my work can feel like screaming into a void.

There are ways to capture deeper magic in the H90, and we’re always iterating internally on sounds that inspire us. Eventide’s motto is “The Next Step” because we’re almost always looking forward, not back. My intent is in alignment with the spirit of your responses. The purpose of my last post: almost everything mentioned in this thread is a red herring. I want to save everyone a bit of sanity. I see how I came across as more corporate, which wasn’t my intent… in reality, I wanted to tip my cap to a classic sound that I love as much as you do, while also showing a path towards getting closer to the sounds imagined in this thread. Because I hear and love them too, and I can help you get the processing in our box to create a new class of sounds we both love.

Speaking of: something else worth trying is Mod Delay from Time Factor. Set the modulation waveform to be the out-of-phase triangle waves, pick short delay times from 5-30 ms – but pick different delay times across the two channels. Start with Fibonacci numbers for delay times, but don’t feel obligated to stick to them (sometimes you want the combing that common multiple delays end up creating!). Set mod depth to 1, mod speed to taste (I usually go for 1 Hz or 5 Hz), filter to low cut/high pass but very gently (no more than 15), and explore the full range of feedback on both delays (including different feedback values for each delay) but keep it below 0.65. There’s a huge depth of chorusing sounds to be found in there.

[Hermetech]

Thanks for all the amazing tips in this thread. The very reason I’ve always kept a Dimensional chorus around is because nothing else can do it. Was A/Bing Brock’s latest patch here with my DC-2W last night and it wasn’t even close (no malice intended, thank you for trying and all your great tips on here over the years). I now need to either program something closer myself, or forget about it, and as ndeshpande says, just experiment with all the amazing and subtle things the H90 can do. I’ve had mine a few months now and it’s by far the best FX processor I have ever used. The cables arrived today for me to set it up with the two mono inserts (one will go to two distortion pedals, one will go to three modulation pedals, with the H90 being the heart of the board) and I can’t wait to try it!

[Securb]

Interestingly enough, the friend I was asking the question for has been monitoring the thread and is impressed with the knowledge of the H9/H90 user community and the support and interaction from Eventide staff. Nice job folks.

[brock]

ndeshpande wrote:

… Speaking of: something else worth trying is Mod Delay from Time Factor. Set the modulation waveform to be the out-of-phase triangle waves, pick short delay times from 5-30 ms – but pick different delay times across the two channels. Start with Fibonacci numbers for delay times, but don’t feel obligated to stick to them (sometimes you want the combing that common multiple delays end up creating!). Set mod depth to 1, mod speed to taste (I usually go for 1 Hz or 5 Hz), filter to low cut/high pass but very gently (no more than 15), and explore the full range of feedback on both delays (including different feedback values for each delay) but keep it below 0.65. There’s a huge depth of chorusing sounds to be found in there.

My go-to for many, if not most delay-based modulation effects.  So innocuous from the outside, but – on a deep dive – a de facto ‘multi-effect’ that runs the gamut.  (In fact, you’re closely describing that Dim-flavored Program of mine I referenced above.  Two parallel instances, with a 2nd flavor in Series).

You make a great point about the wide ranges of delay times in the H90 algos.  There’s a lot of hidden gold to be mined in the fractional ranges (even at 0 mS – processing delay!).  I like to take advantage of what each unique algorithm brings to the table, in that regard.  The craziest, deepest modulation sounds I have run across aren’t classified as “Modulation” effects at all.  Ultra-short delay times, offset two of them, and *carefully* tweak the Feedback(s).  Around 101-110 (sometimes lower) … you’re just asking for it.

[Selfish FR – delay time to 3 decimal points, like the newer releases.  I’ve been spoiled by microseconds in Rose.]

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