Delay Glitches with MIDI PC changes

[njdelyster]

I’m using the H90 as my main delay on a board controlled by the RJM PBC6X. I’m getting consistent glitches which sound like time-based warping on the delay trails when changing presets on the H90. These pitch warbles occur whenever the PBC sends a MIDI command to the H90 regardless of whether it changes the program to a different delay algo or not.

E.g. I have a 1/8th Tape Echo delay as my base delay used across clean, crunch, and gain presets. A preset change in the PBC to use different drives sends the PC message for this H90 program. Even though there isn’t any change in H90 program it’ll still have pitch warbles and this is the same when switching to a different algo (e.g. Head Space or Reverse). I’m assuming that the H90 receives this command and reloads the programs regardless of whether it’s changing delay algo or not.

As I change between sounds throughout a song each gain stage needs to have the same PC message to save tap dancing. The time between preset changes is generally >30 secs so it’s unlikely to be inadequate buffer time(?). I’ve tried turning tails off / on in the presets and programs but still getting the outcome. It’s possible that it only occurs (or more noticeably) when there’s audio being processed (i.e. loading/changing while holding a note).

How can I change settings to avoid the delay pitch warbles?

[brock]

I was going to suggest using another delay algorithm type that uses crossfading between delay times (Digital Delay, et al.).  But that might not have the “flavor” that you’re after.  Have you considered setting up your RJM to transmit PC over 2 different MIDI Channels?  If your base delay remains relatively consistent, you may be able to switch up your drives without affecting the H90.

[njdelyster]

Do you mean only using a single delay algo? That would be a limited use case for what is considered to be a powerful effects processor. I had hoped to replace the Timeline with the H90 as it is by far the more substantive piece of kit … even with the TL you can turn off the morphing time-based pitch warbles.

The H90 is on a unique midi channel and the drives are in different loops on the PBC so there are no PC conflicts. I could change the set-up on the PBC to minimise the PC messages but that wouldn’t solve the issue as I’d still want to change between delay algorithms and encounter the same issue.

Does anyone know if the original Factor pedals have this quirk? I didn’t use delays heavily on the H9 but I don’t remember this behaviour there either (?).

[brock]

I might be the last person to suggest using a single algo, for any kind of situation.  I was reacting to what I thought was implied, reading into the OP.  I use several MIDI controllers, but have only a passing familiarity with the RJM.  Perhaps Eventide can provide an alternative solution here.

I don’t recall whether or not the H9 had the same result with a reloaded PC message.  I still have 3 on a ‘board, so I can check on that later.  Obviously, using Programs / Presets with different delay times / parameter settings on certain algorithms will warble between PCs.  I don’t believe a PitchFactor test will be fruitful for this, as all of those delays are crossfaded.

[njdelyster]

Thanks Brock – I do appreciate the ideas. I recall the H9 didn’t have spillover between presets but I can’t remember what happened on reload or switching types. Either way that may not be a helpful comparison.

At the moment it seems two possible solutions:

1) Ideally there’s a setting I’m missing that smoothens the delay feedback between presets, or firmware update can fix this.

2) Have the option to turn off all delay spillover/trails between preset changes. I’ve tried turning trails off in Preset and Program settings as well as reducing the spillover time to 0 in System settings however it still triggers the pitch warble on delay algo changes.

@Team Eventide… what’s your advice/guidance on this?

[wallofsound]

PLEASE Team Eventide… what’s your advice/guidance on this?

[njdelyster]

Hopefully, the team will share the how-to here soon. I’d go as far as saying the delay artefacts make it unusable in a live environment at the moment. No audience, MD, or bandmates will tolerate that for long!

I’ve also sent in an email to support so if there’s a response there first I’ll loop back here.

[njdelyster]

I received a response from the Support team. Unfortunately, this is how the current algorithms behave and switching between delay programs or reloading existing programs will trigger the pitch warps. The suggested workaround is to use Hotswitches to control subdivisions (and the level of different heads if available).

I did provide some feedback for the development team so hopefully these glitches will be addressed in a future firmware however I’m not holding my breath. Truth be told I’m a bit disappointed as I loved the sounds I dialled in but currently, it’s just not workable in a live environment… Moving back to the Timeline for delays.

[wallofsound]

I’ve also sent in an email to the Eventide support,  here’s the response:

Sorry to hear you are experiencing issues with the speed that Programs load on the H90. We have tested this extensively and have determined that the Programs will load at an acceptable speed for live performance and other applications. Below is some further information:

• There is a tradeoff between the spillover time and how quickly you can expect Programs to change.
• If your spillover time is 30 secs, and you try to quickly load Programs within that 30 sec window after the first Program switch, you might have slower switching times.
• Programs will switch faster outside of the window of the spillover time.
• If you need to change Programs quickly, reduce your spillover time or turn spillover off.
• We haven’t measured any difference between the pedal receiving MIDI PC messages and switching on the box itself

 

[tbskoglund]

The above response is concerning how fast Programs will load on the H90.

The issue that was reported in this thread is that when certain delay algorithms are loaded there is a pitch/delay “warp” sound. We’re looking into improving this, since some users do not like when the warp sound happens.

[njdelyster]

Really glad to hear it’s getting at look at @tbskoglund. I’d love to get this back on the board and replace the Timeline.

[wallofsound]

Sorry, that wasn‘t the whole answer!

As for your second issue with the delay glitches, unfortunately that is normal behavior with these algorithms. Any time the delay time or heads change, there will be a delay warp sound. That noise is a byproduct of the effect. Sorry. You could try using a Hotswitch instead of loading another preset. You can have 2 subdivisions using the different heads, and the Hotswitch can change the level of each head. Also, our developers are aware that some customers do not like this behavior, so they may look at changing it in the future.

[tomattah]

wallofsound wrote:

I’ve also sent in an email to the Eventide support, here’s the response: Sorry to hear you are experiencing issues with the speed that Programs load on the H90. We have tested this extensively and have determined that the Programs will load at an acceptable speed for live performance and other applications. Below is some further information:

• There is a tradeoff between the spillover time and how quickly you can expect Programs to change.
• If your spillover time is 30 secs, and you try to quickly load Programs within that 30 sec window after the first Program switch, you might have slower switching times.
• Programs will switch faster outside of the window of the spillover time.
• If you need to change Programs quickly, reduce your spillover time or turn spillover off.
• We haven’t measured any difference between the pedal receiving MIDI PC messages and switching on the box itself

I’m here with a question about MIDI PC loading speed on the H90.

I’m using a Neural Quad Cortex as a MIDI controller with the H90 in effects loop 1.  Changing preset on the QC send a program change to the H90, but there is around 1.8-2secs delay before the program loads on the H90.

Is this covered by the above? It seems slower than the H9 when I was controlling that using an HX Stomp.

[tomattah]

wallofsound wrote:

I’ve also sent in an email to the Eventide support, here’s the response: Sorry to hear you are experiencing issues with the speed that Programs load on the H90. We have tested this extensively and have determined that the Programs will load at an acceptable speed for live performance and other applications. Below is some further information:

• There is a tradeoff between the spillover time and how quickly you can expect Programs to change.
• If your spillover time is 30 secs, and you try to quickly load Programs within that 30 sec window after the first Program switch, you might have slower switching times.
• Programs will switch faster outside of the window of the spillover time.
• If you need to change Programs quickly, reduce your spillover time or turn spillover off.
• We haven’t measured any difference between the pedal receiving MIDI PC messages and switching on the box itself

I’m here with a question about MIDI PC loading speed on the H90.

I’m using a Neural Quad Cortex as a MIDI controller with the H90 in effects loop 1.  Changing preset on the QC send a program change to the H90, but there is around 1.8-2secs delay before the program loads on the H90.

Is this covered by the above? It seems slower than the H9 when I was controlling that using an HX Stomp.

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