Difference between bass and guitar Source setting

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    • #113475
      Flabzilla
      Member

      Hi All,

      When guitar or bass is selected as the source for an H9, what does the pedal do to the incoming signal?

      Secondly, is the change(s) specific to algos or global?

      Thanks.

    • #143479
      gkellum
      Member
      Flabzilla wrote:

      When guitar or bass is selected as the source for an H9, what does the pedal do to the incoming signal?

      Secondly, is the change(s) specific to algos or global?

      One of my colleagues would be able to give a more detailed answer to this question than I, but this question has come up before and what they said was it changes the allowed pitch range used in the pitch tracking algorithms and filter settings in some algorithms.

    • #143486
      Flabzilla
      Member
      wedelich wrote:

      Well, good catch….. in MF I can’t tell that it actually does anything.  I think we originally merged it in from the PF OS because I was doing specific bass work on the QWah Algorithm, but I found that it was just more useful to add BASS wah types to the TYPE knob (because they sounded great on guitar too).  It appears we forgot to remove the SOURCE menu from the system menu.  

      I looked around for other posts and found this.

      Would this be the other colleague of whom you speak?

    • #143507
      Bodde
      Participant

      Good post really would like to know that also. I even didn’t know there were specific bass or guitar input settings and have just plugged in my bass with the same settings as my guitar. I guess maybe bass setting would have a few db’s less input for when you use an active bass?

    • #143512
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      The SOURCE system parameter was added during Pitchfactor development to give users options that tune the pitchshifting algorithms to the instrument, so SOURCE mostly only applies to algorithms that have some sort of pitchshifting in them.  We've also used it to tune filters and/or EQ types or frequency ranges, e.g. the filter knob in MicroPitch comes to mind.  The idea being that a bass player will want different EQ emphasis than a guitar player.  

      SOURCE does not however do any level compensation on the H9 (to adjust for active pickups, etc).  

      • #143513
        Flabzilla
        Member
        wedelich wrote:

        The SOURCE system parameter was added during Pitchfactor development to give users options that tune the pitchshifting algorithms to the instrument, so SOURCE mostly only applies to algorithms that have some sort of pitchshifting in them.  We’ve also used it to tune filters and/or EQ types or frequency ranges, e.g. the filter knob in MicroPitch comes to mind.  The idea being that a bass player will want different EQ emphasis than a guitar player.  

        SOURCE does not however do any level compensation on the H9 (to adjust for active pickups, etc).  

        Thanks!

    • #146707
      SteveBowman
      Member

      What SOURCE should I select for a clarinet? I’m going clarinet > modfacctor > pitchfactor > timefactor. I have a piezo pickup on the clarinet, not a microphone. I tried them all and don’t hear a different, but now I see it depends on the preset and algorithm. 

      Steve

      ThinAirX 

      • #146708
        brock
        Participant
        SteveBowman wrote:

        What SOURCE should I select for a clarinet? I’m going clarinet > modfacctor > pitchfactor > timefactor. I have a piezo pickup on the clarinet, not a microphone. I tried them all and don’t hear a different, but now I see it depends on the preset and algorithm. 

        Steve

        ThinAirX 

        My suggestion would be Synth Lead for a soprano, and either Synth Lead or Synth Bass for an alto / bass clarinet.  I’m basing this on their note frequencies, relative to the range of a guitar or bass, and also on this ancient reply from Eventide.  https://www.eventideaudio.com/comment/13109#comment-13109

        I don’t know is whether the Guitar or Bass settings have some kind of low pass ‘rolloff’ that the Synth selections do not, but that’s my guess here.  But I would think that any filter range would shift accordingly, and that – with a clarinet – you wouldn’t mind sacrificing polyphony for faster tracking.

    • #146711
      SteveBowman
      Member

      Brock, thank you for your comment. But I notice you’re mostly guessing. I’ve searched this question and it seems that guesses are common, hard information hard to come by. Since this is merely a technical spec, I hope somebody at Eventide can settlle the issue with a post of the technical specs for each choice. Please!

      Although I am playing a real clarinet, I put it through a EHX Pitchfork first, and often play with a -12 octave doubling the regular tone. Sounds exactly like a bass clarinet in the lower octave. Sometimes I go down 2 octaves -24 for special effects (through the ringmodulator on the ModFactor is awesome!). So I do need the lows. But even more importantly, I need the resulting tone to be as accurate as possible to capture the characteristic woody sound of a fine clarinet. Some of my compositions require authentic tone. On others I mod the tone so far, it’s unrecognizable as a clarinet. 

      Again, I have the Time, Mod, and Pitch Factors, all in series. So I want to get this setting right on each one. If frequencies are rolled off with the wrong setting, the loss is multiplied.

      Thanks,

      Steve

      ThinAirX 

    • #146712
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      No need to worry, Bass and Synth Bass mode do not do any rolloff on the signal.  The main purpose of these modes is to allow any pitchshifters to track lower notes.  The expense of this is possilbe slower tracking, but it will also probably track small simple chords better (octave, P5, and P4 combos for diatonic algs, possibly other chords for chromatic algs).   The other thing Bass modes do is condition algorithm tone shaping filters to sound better for Bass instruments.  Off the top of my head, I think this affects tone shaping filters in Sculpt, EQ Compressor, MicroPitch, and CrushStation. 

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