- This topic is empty.
June 1, 2009 at 12:10 pm #106249Burger666Member
Normally I'd hold my tongue because I'm also involved in music technology product development, so I have a fair idea of what the hurdles are when it comes to updates. But I have to say that 16 and 14 months between updates (to date) for the TimeFactor and ModFactor respectively (please correct me if I'm wrong), without even a hint of when or what we might expect, is verging on an unacceptable and arrogant disregard towards the customer. WTF is going on Eventide? Is is that you've seen the opportunity to cash in on the porting of your higher end products to other 'Factors' such as the PitchFactor, thereby leaving the first Factors to fend for themselves until the cash frenzy is over? You're not doing yourselves any favors out there. Very disappointing and somewhat beneath the Eventide name that for a couple of decades has been spoken of with reverence and distinction. Hopefully, I'm completely wrong and you can set me straight and put me in my place. Otherwise, pick it up please.
June 1, 2009 at 2:07 pm #118667rmaxwellModeratorEventide Staff
First of all, let me apologize for any inconvenience customers have suffered as a result of software updates not coming as fast as one would like. We are a small company with limited development resources. We have been compiling a list of feature requests from customers since TimeFactor was first released. We are incorporating new features as quickly as we can, but there are limits to how quickly these can be incorporated because some features take longer than others to complete, and let's face it, we are perfectionists.
As far as software updates go, TimeFactor was updated to v2.0 on June 19, 2008. We have a new release for PitchFactor which will be released to public beta presently, and we are planning a new release for TimeFactor and ModFactor in the coming months. There are always trade-offs in these new releases. What I mean by that is there are always more features we would like to include but that would delay the release significantly (a single feature can take months to complete). These updates always take more time than we would like, but we appreciate your patience, and trust that each update is worth the wait.
We do not take our customers for granted. We strive to earn your trust and respect by continually improving our products, and by enhancing your investment through periodic software updates. Our customers have truly become a part of our development process.
June 1, 2009 at 8:25 pm #118669Burger666Member
Thank you for taking the time to reply, Ray.
I think I can speak for others and say that it's reassuring to know that the products we invested in are still a working concern as far improvements go and that there are features to look forward to in the coming months.
June 4, 2009 at 7:35 pm #129784juergetMember
I don't feel as hostile as Burger, but am deffenitly frustrated with the uncertain wait. I have the same issues with the people at moog and have to admit that despite their extraordinary customer care, I find it terribly frustrating to own a piece of equipment you can't get the full use out of and not knowing when to expect the problem to be fixed.
One issue I find particulary annoying is the useless midi clock and innacurate bpm count on all 3 pedals. I've been waiting for about a year for an update that will make my modfactor and timefactor 'useable'. Keep in mind that this isn't an issue of product enhancement, its actually a key (and highly advertised) feature that dosn't work.
I own all 3 pedals. And only bought the pitchfactor because there were reports that these issues were resolved in the pitchfactor. They have not, and I feel misled.
I agree with Burger, that it is an utter lack of respect to sell an item and fix it along the way with updates. I can certainly say that I expected a much quicker and deliberate effort to adress these essential problems from a company with an outstanding reputation, which also makes reliable products for civilian aviation.
That said, there is nothing like these pedals on the market, and they are not your standard $70 boss pedal. I appreciate the complexity of the task of updating them, and also how difficult it must be to satisfy the odd whims of their customers. I just wish eventide would meet my patience 1/2 way and either adress the critical issues more promplty or at least state a date for the update, so I know when I can expect to be able to use them.
I can live without the volume function, can do without certain scales, will pass on the other great suggestions I've read on this forum, but the tempo and midi issues are things I can't negotiate.
I mean if I have to wait another 6 months for this problem to be fixed I may as well sell them. Or maybe it wouldn't be outrageous to see if I could get some kind of refund.
I dunno. It's a bit frustrating.
June 4, 2009 at 11:11 pm #129788nickroseModeratorEventide Staff
We are sorry that you are unhappy with our products and service. Hopefully the recently released PitchFactor update will cheer you up. As previously promised, updates for TF and MF are not far away.
We know of no MIDIclock issues with PF, and, as far as we know, none have been reported to this forum by yourself or anyone else. If there is a problem, please give us full details so that we can fix it.
We understand that people would like more from us and sooner. In our defence, I can only say that we are a small company with limited resources. Providing the kinds of functionality that we?ve squeezed into these boxes has
proven something of a challenge – this is why they are different from the $70 pedal. In addition, we have to continually optimize the code so that, as we add functionality, the UI
doesn?t become sluggish (for example, the next MF is noticeably zippier).
June 5, 2009 at 8:23 am #129789AwillParticipant
I see 2 mentions of recently relased Pitchfactor updates in this thread, but can't see any mention on my product update page or notes over new updates and/or what they are. Is there actually something available download currently (Beta or otherwise)?
June 5, 2009 at 9:59 am #129790diegoartsMember
People, i must say, that i also am eagerly waiting for an timefactor update, but let's be patient and fair! NO other manufacturer of such great sounding and enormously useful pedals has such a great option to update our equipment! of course i'd like to happen this in less than a month 😉 BUT i am more concerned about the pedal to still sound great and getting better every update! this is pro-equipment (imho) and therefor the most important issue is the outcome of the updates, not how long they take!
anyway, it was good to finally hear a maybe-release-date.
looking forward for the update!
best regards. diego
June 5, 2009 at 12:15 pm #118685juergetMember
I apologize if I sounded a bit hostile.
Don't get me wrong. These pedals are in a leage of their own when it comes to features and
functions. The sound is truly pristine and you can tell imediately
that they are very well built. I also appreciate how elaborate these pedals are, and how difficult it must be to update them.
It's just nice to know how long I should expect to wait. Maybe a list of problems that will be adressed in upcoming updates would be very useful as well.
by the way: the pitchfactor has midi and tempo problems similar to the modfactor and timefactor. I'll but that in another thread.
August 13, 2009 at 1:16 am #118914Burger666Member
Two and a half months later; Tick, tick, tick….
August 13, 2009 at 10:27 pm #118915damienl64Member
Chaps from Eventide
We all understand the constraints of a small company and that your are abit "victims of the sucess" of your stomboxes. Hoowever, my business sense makes me think you're getting some money out of this and therefore are able to hire devloppers, software engineers and so on….
Your marketing clainm is around updatable device and so far delivery is once every year …
In order to satisfy your customers prefer small but frequent updatees to "one big thing" per year; this will please existing customers, encourage new ones and avoid software patches ….
August 24, 2009 at 10:37 pm #130076parsky1Member
In Eventide's defense… I don't think these boxes are the biggest cash cows yet. My Mod factor is 2xxx and I just bought it. They probably haven't made their money back on modfactor. Timefactor might be doing a lot better and could be in the 10xxx
These things take time to develop and test. Testing and documentation is usually more work than the actual software implementation. If they released an update and it has more bugs you would all have a fit. Eventide is probably struggling with what business moves make sense. A new update for TF? or a Verbfactor? when you only have X number of people to work on all your projects. Also hiring new staff is a HUGE financial commitment. A DSP engineer with years experience costs $100k or more a year once you include benefits.
I would suggest they quit having their engineers write the instruction manual content I still don't know what all the Q-wah voicings are.
Good things come with time.
Good job Eventide and keep up the good work!
August 25, 2009 at 3:43 pm #130079nickroseModeratorEventide Staff
Thank you .. someone understands !!!
We're sending the engineers to reading and writing school….
August 25, 2009 at 11:36 pm #130080parsky1Member
We're sending the engineers to reading and writing school….
Haha! Good one… I totally understand because I an electrical engineer who knows how product development goes. I also know first hand that if the designer writes the manual they usually inadvertently make assumptions on what the end user knows and their level of expertise.
August 31, 2009 at 2:40 pm #130096herbMember
Anyway, it is still disappointiong that we are waiting for un update.
In june Eventide told us that they are planning a new release for the coming months…
September 1, 2009 at 3:01 am #130099ReckedtrekMember
Yes it feels like an eternity for the TF and MF updates to be released but I'd rather they take an extra month, two, even 5 or 6 to make sure it is bug free and actuallys adds useful updates. Hopefully it won't be too much longer and the updates for these two products will help us all forget (or at least forgive) the wait.
Eventide: Any chance of an estimated time of release on the TF or MF updates?
September 10, 2009 at 3:28 pm #130122herbMember
Hi Eventide guys,
is there anybody out there? Comfortably numb?
The least you can do is to give us an answer.
Thank you in advance.
September 15, 2009 at 5:19 am #130132mauriciobahiaMember
Hummmm… I´m worried.
September 15, 2009 at 7:50 am #130133grozeilMember
I'm worried too, because we all are waiting for so long that I'm scared we will be disappointed with some lacking features
September 15, 2009 at 9:00 pm #130145damienl64Member
This device is not made too be updated. I'd be pretty pissed of to see the verb factor realeased before the update we are waiting for. It would definitely prevent me to buy it
Please guys at eventide…. it's been more than a year ….
September 16, 2009 at 1:07 am #130146kwboschMember
If Eventide is anything like most other corporations, they have laid-off the experienced (high priced) employee’s in favor of young inexperienced (low cost) employee’s. It may be a very disappointing update if it ever comes to fruition.
September 16, 2009 at 12:54 pm #130148IDeangelisMember
Eventide being very different from all other companies hasn't laid off any of its employees, from engineers to front desk office. We are all here. Always wait for a release *before* taking the liberty of judging it. Be assured…all the same folks who have created all the pedals, the mighty H8000/7600 and the Eclipse are here….only very busy with so many different things that it may actually take more than a while for anything we would like to provide. It takes time, unfortunately.
September 16, 2009 at 2:43 pm #130149herbMember
I'm not judging in advance your release, I'm waiting for it.
But as you write "that it may actually take more than a while for anything we would like to provide", I think that there is no hope… e.g. that the TF will get a convincing analogue sound (like the cheaper Carbon Copy).
So, I will probably sell my Timefactor, and spend the money to get another solution.
September 16, 2009 at 3:57 pm #130151juergetMember
I can only say the following:
You cannot judge a company, enterprise, or organization by the merit of others. Each case has to be treated individually. This is especially true in this business. I've come across all kinds or 'support' in the audio gear market. I've dealt with both small and large companies which have made me feel like an important customer.
I cannot say the same about eventide.
I agree with herb and feel the anger. My frustration has been exacerbated by the latest comments made by the eventide team. "that it may actually take more than a while for anything we would like to provide" is a downright disrespectful to everyone who paid money for something that wasn't delivered in the box.
I have a similar issue with the people at moog, but they are courteous enough to apologize over, and over, and over, for about as long as the people at eventide have been promising a release.
I have a question. Would not delivering key advertised features (such as midiclock support and a working bpm counter) warrant for a full refund on return? I'm selling my units, but I can't really conjure up a straight face and pass my problem on to someone else. What should I do?
I'd appreciate a concrete answer. Considering I voided my warranty waiting for an update that will never come. What kind of customer relation is this? I feel like a sucker who's got a sour deal, and then made fun of. I can imagine that in the US there are organizations and institutions which deal this kind of thing (consumer protection and all that nonsense). In every other part of the world, its the best way of ruining a hard earned reputation.
September 16, 2009 at 4:36 pm #130152IDeangelisMember
it does take time to provide a good update, for many different reasons, many of which are known to the users.
First off a very small company like this has people busy over different projects and this can only be properly done with a sequemce of priorities. At the moment one of them is the release of Eclipse OS V4.0 and a public beta for it, plus a number of other important projects for the future.
Another good reason is listening to customers! We gather issues and bug reports and suggestions. Often a database of these important aspects grows to the point we need to do important changes to the system and/or algorithms..and that does take time, when it's the turn to work on a specific unit that has reached its priority.
The phrase you report out of its context is very simple. It means "we would like to provide as much as possible, including your suggestions if and when possible, but for many different reasons, including the ones I have just mentioned, it takes time". We can't possibly announce when exactly an update will be ready, just lke any other company, big or small. The time it is ready is when we are confident it works at a level of stability that can be given out for beta. It often takes several dozens builds of a system to get there, depending on how many and how deep are the changes made from the previous release. It's a point about being confident to have released a quality piece of software at the possible pace we can go…
Rest assured that a TF update IS on its way, as again just hinted to in another thread of this forum. It will come, but it has to go thru its testing.
Like any and every product on the market, one may like it a lot or enough or not at all. We try hard to improve things up to where it's possible. Some things may be possible, others may not. It's just the way technology is. The customer is the judge. Time Factor is an extremely successful product and personally I like it more than other products we make. Can we make it better? Sure. Can we make it when customers ask for it? Not quite. It will take the time it needs and then we will release it, simply. So don't be in anger or frustrated. I'm sure you like your TF and that's the reason you have it. It does things you like and other things you'd like to be different from what they currently are. We hope to make it better for everybody and for you too.
Some more patience and it will be delivered.
IShow More...Show Less...
September 16, 2009 at 4:54 pm #130153parsky1Member
It is obvious not a single person here complaining is an engineer or even works in product development or project management. You have all naively trivialize designing a new product and making software updates… Once the update is out, whether it talkes 4 months or 8 months, everyone will forget how long it took. What DOES MATTER is if the update meets the customer needs and works well. We should all be thankful eventide's design teams hold themselves to a much higher standard than cellphone manufacturers.
September 16, 2009 at 7:50 pm #130154Burger666Member
Remember that old rule about assuming? I think it's just come back to bite you on the bum. I'm the OP, I work for SM Pro Audio and DVK Technologies (a new pedal company) and I am on the development team for both (moreso for DVK). SM Pro Audio released the V-Machine last year and while it hasn't been without its issues we are constantly striving to improve those issues and are in regular dialogue with our customers through forums like KVR in order to do so. By the way, I think that the MF and TF are great products. In fact, I have gone out of my way to spend time and effort on producing a few of the more respected and unsolicited YouTube videos out there in order to help spread the word. I have no doubt that these videos have resulted in extra sales for Eventide and good for them if it has. So settle down fella and keep your assertions, assumptions and 'naive trivializing' to yourself. Brett Kingman.
September 16, 2009 at 8:19 pm #130155mauriciobahiaMember
I have no doubt that these videos have resulted in extra sales for Eventide and good for them if it has.
I´m a living proof!
September 16, 2009 at 8:45 pm #130156damienl64Member
patience is a vertu and a torture …
BTW – we are not devlopper but guitarists 🙂 and customers
Let's say something before xmas
September 17, 2009 at 10:39 pm #130165MyAudioDNAMember
I was about to purchase both the timefactor and the modfactor, and by about to I mean I had my credit card info entered on the site and was about to hit finalize, but decided to check something here first. This thread has made me very seriously second guess my choice to go with ANY eventide products. I don't doubt that people love them, but if they can't deliver on the features that should be STANDARD on this type of advanced delay unit, I don't see why I should spend my money on this over a boss gigadelay, which has a WORKING BPM counter. I know the gigadelay has less options, less presets and less tweekability, but at least the thing works the way it's supposed to! And just fyi, I am a software developer for apple, so I know how the software development process goes and how painstaking it can be, but to release product with a key feature that doesn't work correctly and then to not correct that feature IMMEDIATELY is an absolute travesty. Nice work eventide.
September 18, 2009 at 5:57 am #130166juergetMember
My point exactly.
Quality music gear should not suffer Windows Vista practice of peddling unfinnished products and promising to fix them with updates later. The quality standard must be much much higher for such items. Testing should be thorough enough so you don't need an update in the first place. And you should deliver what is advertised without the need of an update (midi clock and working bpm counter)
Its a real shame, because despite the few 'glithces' you really won't find a better set of pedals in this category.
September 22, 2009 at 1:39 am #130201kwboschMember
It’s great to hear the Eventide hasn’t gone the route that the majority of corporations in my area have.
I’ve been fortunate to survive the latest lay-offs in my company. I work for a large medical device company in SoCal. I design surgical devices and the injection molds required to produce them. I’m very aware of the product development cycle. We cannot have failures or sub standard products in this field. If a product we are developing doesn’t perform as intended, it is not released. If it’s found to be defective after initial release, there is a recall of that product and a full evaluation and redesign.
Obviously, Stompboxes are not life threatening if they don’t work right but we all paid a premium price for these X-Factors and fully expect them to perform.
Still looking forward to the update.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.