Exploring H9 Looper MIDI Control

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    • #112141
      brock
      Participant

      Using external MIDI over the new H9 Looper algorithm really unlocks the full potential.  You can come fairly close with 3 aux switches or an expression pedal.  But a full complement of MIDI switching and variable pedals makes it "feel" like a full-featured looper pedal.

      I'll expand a little on the information found in the Looper documentation.  First, pick a MIDI Receive Channel that won't conflict with your system (Channel 9 on my H9).  Output mode should be set to Thru.

      For MIDI CC switching, select up to 6 MIDI CC numbers specifically for the exposed Looper functions.  The default CC numbers in the H9 for Parameters 1-10 are CC 22 through CC 31.  You won't want to use those for switching the Looper functions.

      As a simple example:

      CC1 = Looper – Record [REC]

      CC2 = Looper – Play [PLY]

      CC3 = Looper – Stop [STP]

      CC4 = Looper – Empty [MT]

      CC5 = Looper – Flip Direction [DIR]

      CC6 = Looper – Flip Octave [OCT]

      On my FCB 1010, I keep the Empty function on an upper row of switches; isolated from the rest.  The other five functions are performance related, and [MT] can be a little 'dangerous' to hit accidentally.  Now, one very important step:  You've assigned the CC numbers, but each CC number can have a value from 0 to 127.  Each switch needs to have a CC value above 63 (any value between 64 and 127).

      In MIDI switching, a CC value of 127 is usually safe as an 'ON' position (a value of 0 being 'OFF').  But you don't want any 'OFF' positions in the H9 Looper functions.  Momentary ON positions only; no toggling between OFF and ON.  Keep in mind that if you're using the H9 MIDI LEARN feature, a Looper function can be LEARNed to a MIDI CC value between 0 and 63.  But the Looper function will not trigger correctly in practice, unless the value is between 64 and 127.

      Other Looper features can be controlled over MIDI using Parameter 1-10 'knobs'.  You may want to group them with the appropriate Looper switches.  For example, continuous control over DECAY might pair up with Record / Dub.  PLY-START and PLY-LENGTH may fit well alongside Play switching.  Change RESOLUTION in Stop mode, or use PLAYSPEED and RESOLUTION continuous control under most any one of the main Looper modes.  Configure them to augment your looping style, and what you want to accomplish.

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      The default parameter routings are:

      CC 22 = Parameter 1 [KB0]  =  MIX

      CC 23 = Parameter 2 [KB1]  =  MAX-LENGTH

      CC 24 = Parameter 3 [KB2]  =  PLY-START

      CC 25 = Parameter 4 [KB3]  =  PLY-LENGTH

      CC 26 = Parameter 5 [KB4]  =  DECAY

      CC 27 = Parameter 6 [KB5]  =  DUBMODE

      CC 28 = Parameter 7 [KB6]  =  PLAYMODE

      CC 29 = Parameter 8 [KB7]  =  RESOLUTION

      CC 30 = Parameter 9 [KB8]  =  SPEED

      CC 31 = Parameter 10 [KB9]  =  FILTER

      The Looper documentation does a much better job of describing MIDI sync functionality than I could here.  The addition of MIDI Start and STOP commands will give tight integration with the rest of your system.  Most old school MIDI drum machines will generate these MIDI messages, and provide a solid MIDI Clock signal.  In a pinch, use a computer-based DAW program (which – ironically – may be a jittery source for sync).

      You may find the odd MIDI pedalboard capable of sending START/STOP commands, or you could need a specialized 'midi solution'.  The MIDI Clock signal will have to be generated from some type of outside source.  But it's worth the trouble to explore how tightly Eventide's Looper algorithm will sync up with your entire system.

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    • #153137
      pseudoambient
      Participant

      Very useful informations. Thank you.

      But let assume this:

      I have Ableton Live and the H9 connected via MIDI, simply OUT(Computer) -> IN(H9)

      I create a MIDI clip containing a couple of quantized CC1 messages (RECORD). Using, for example, DUB-MODE in REPL-PUNCH, I want the H9 to capture quantized snippets of sound.

      Well this works in theory, but I have strange behaviour from the H9, and a kind of MIDI overflow.

      What you think? What am I doing wrong?

    • #155990
      Yarns
      Member

      Help !!

      I recently connected my H9 to a MIDI controller (Disaster Area DMC-6), and now the H9 ignores the Autoplay fonction on the looper algorithm (which is a super rad feature I use all the time). What could be the reason for this? The preset is set up on Autoplay, but the H9 just decides to ignore it ever since I plugged it to a MIDI controller.

      If that’s any help, the H9 is last in a midi daisy chain of three devices (namely: Empress Zoia, Line 6 HX Effects. and Eventide H9 as the last device). For a while, I thought that the two other pedals were standing in the way of the H9 and sending wrong MIDI infos… But it doesn’t seem like that’s what it is.

      Anyhoo, thanks a lot to whoever can help me 🙂

    • #156001
      brock
      Participant

      I sense your frustration; it sounds like you’re taking a careful, measured approach.  I don’t work for Eventide, & I think that the programmer who worked on much of the Looper code is employed elsewhere now (?)  I’ll stick it out with you, & keep it floated for an official response.

      I wrote this up myself years back, but I haven’t been able to reproduce the AUTOPLAY issue today.  My test H9 is at version 5.8.5.1, and the H9 Control app [Windows] is at 3.7.0.  Long shot, but make sure you have the latest updates installed.

      I’ve run quite a few custom Looper presets now (with AUTOPLAY), over a few dozen minutes each.  No parameter reset.  In fact, one is still running right now as I type this.

      It’s straight in from the D/A MIDI Baby 3 to that test H9 (not in my more complicated MIDI system).  If you haven’t already, try temporarily removing the Zoia & Line6 from the daisy chain.  And I’ll slot in some Looper presets on my mega-MIDI system, to see what shakes out.  That’s where the original FCB-1010 from the OP lives.

    • #153214
      brock
      Participant
      pseudoambient wrote:
      I have Ableton Live and the H9 connected via MIDI, simply OUT(Computer) -> IN(H9) …

      … I create a MIDI clip containing a couple of quantized CC1 messages (RECORD). Using, for example, DUB-MODE in REPL-PUNCH, I want the H9 to capture quantized snippets of sound … I have strange behaviour from the H9, and a kind of MIDI overflow.  What you think? What am I doing wrong?

      Very strange.  Sounds like you’re doing everything correctly.  No MIDI loopback.  H9 set to THRU (not the other 3 modes).  A couple quantized CC1 messages (not too rapidly, 127 value long enough to be recognized).  Hmm.  Don’t repeated REC messages shift to DUB?  Maybe a (from the example above – CC#3 – Value 127) STOP message in-between each CC#1?

      The MIDI overflow is difficult to diagnose remotely.  It’s been a long time since I used Live … I recall something about ‘kill timers’ at 100 mS.  A MIDI monitor on the output would be your best friend here.  Not sure if there’s one native to Ableton.  WinX or whatever O/S you’re using.  I’d check for Active Sensing, aftertouch, … anything in that clip or output that isn’t CC#1 or (probably) MIDI Clock pulses.

    • #155995
      brock
      Participant

      Tough one to diagnose remotely.  I can give you a few ideas to pursue:

      Three daisy-chained MIDI devices is about the limit I would take.  I don’t think that’s the problem here (if everything else H9 is working).  But with any additional devices, consider a MIDI THRU box.  That said, it’s good practice to eliminate the MIDI variables, and test out one controller with one device at a time.

      I don’t have a DMC-6 here, but a MIDI Baby 3 would be similar.  Do you have Zoia, Line 6, and H9 all receiving on the same MIDI Channel?  Useful in some circumstances, but that can be the cause of some ‘cross-wired’ MIDI CC commands.

      As for the H9, have you left the Parameter 1-10 MIDI CC assignments at defaults?  As I recall, a stray MIDI CC#28 message might be resetting your PLAYMODE preset to an unwanted value / position.  Have you noticed a change there?

      The Disaster Area controllers are highly programmable, and can send just about any message.  Lacking a MIDI monitor for diagnosis, I would think you can narrow down exactly what the DMC-6 is sending from their app (assuming it’s the same as the MIDI Baby 3 approach).

    • #156000
      Yarns
      Member

      Hi Brock,

      First of all thanks for all this. I am really grateful for the support. The H9 is by far my favorite pedal, and I am not surprised that Eventide is so quick to help.

      So, I tried what you said and – hurray! – it worked… For 15 minutes. At first it was back to the autoplay mode, and then it started doing that thing again where it stops playing/won’t loop at the end of the recorded sequence on Tempo mode.

      Here’s what I tried:

      – I deleted the CC#28 (parameter 7) on the H9 app, and it worked great at first, before going back to “No Autoplay”;

      – I also tried to put the H9 on a new Midi channel. It used to be on Channel 3 (right after my Line 6 HX effects in the daisy chain), and I moved it to Channel 5 and reconfigured all my presets. Again, the autoplay worked again, but then stopped doing its thing (gosh that was frustrating to think I had gotten it to eventually be back to the same problem, haha);

      – I set all the 1-10 parameters to “No Mapping” in the H9 app, but it did not do anything. The looper buttons on the DMC are all doing what they are supposed to do, but the autoplay still won’t work on the H9. It’s so weird that it’s working, and then it just stops after a while.

      Unfortunately, the DMC-6 is not controllable via the Midi Baby app. In their manual, there are some precise CC# you have to apply in order to use the H9 looper with the DMC. I checked and re-checked, and they are all set according to what they recommend in the manual.

      I contacted Disaster Area as well, but they are – unfortunately – not as prompt/efficient in helping as you guys.

      Again, the autoplay feature is a killer parameter that I use all the time, so that’s why I am so nitpicking about it to work.

      Anyhoo, any support on this would be truly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help!

       

      brock wrote:

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      Tough one to diagnose remotely.  I can give you a few ideas to pursue:

      Three daisy-chained MIDI devices is about the limit I would take.  I don’t think that’s the problem here (if everything else H9 is working).  But with any additional devices, consider a MIDI THRU box.  That said, it’s good practice to eliminate the MIDI variables, and test out one controller with one device at a time.

      I don’t have a DMC-6 here, but a MIDI Baby 3 would be similar.  Do you have Zoia, Line 6, and H9 all receiving on the same MIDI Channel?  Useful in some circumstances, but that can be the cause of some ‘cross-wired’ MIDI CC commands.

      As for the H9, have you left the Parameter 1-10 MIDI CC assignments at defaults?  As I recall, a stray MIDI CC#28 message might be resetting your PLAYMODE preset to an unwanted value / position.  Have you noticed a change there?

      The Disaster Area controllers are highly programmable, and can send just about any message.  Lacking a MIDI monitor for diagnosis, I would think you can narrow down exactly what the DMC-6 is sending from their app (assuming it’s the same as the MIDI Baby 3 approach).

      Show Less...
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