Expression pedal control of multiple H9s

Home Forums Products Stompboxes Expression pedal control of multiple H9s

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 10 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #112296
      KCStratman
      Member

      "7) Enable Expression Pedal and Auxiliary Switches connected to the H9 to control other MIDI devices"

      How do I get two additional H9s to respond to an expression pedal connected to one first unit. If the units are connected with midi cables A out> in B thru> in C, what all has to be done in midi setup to accomplish this? (What settings in H9 Control and what settings in the pedals themselves?)

      "H9 automatically selects either USB or DIN5 as MIDI Inputs and Outputs. If USB is connected, DIN5 MIDI activity (including MIDI thru) is ignored."    How does this jibe with " Assigning parameter knobs (KB0-KB9) allow you send MIDI messages ‘through’ the H9 when using H9 Control."?

      So, midi functions cannot be utilized while connected to H9 Control via USB? So, once setup it would not function while connected to H9 Control? Would the expression control mappings for each preset entered via H9 Control still apply or does everything have to be mapped in the pedals' midi menus? I have pored through all the midi instructions and it is very confusing and there are no nice simple examples anywhere.

      "38 [XMT CC] – Expression Pedal/Aux Switch transmit MIDI Continuous Control

      The H9’s Expression Pedal and Aux Switches can be used as MIDI controllers. Here’s how it works: Press the HOTKNOB button to select [XMT CC]. You will see two fields (split display) with the left side of the display showing the Control Source and the right side the Destination. The two fields are delimited by a decimal point [PDL.C15].The Left Footswitch LED is flashing (if it’s not, press the Left Footswitch to select this field) showing this to be the selected field for editing.

      To Select the Control Source

      Turn the Knob to select the Control Source. The choices are:

      [PDL] Expression Pedal

      Show More...

      [KB0]…[KB9] – Parameter Control Knobs

      [TIP] Aux Switch Tip

      [RNG] Aux Switch Ring

      [T+R] Aux Switch Tip+Ring

      Note: Assigning parameter knobs (KB0-KB9) allow you send MIDI messages ‘through’ the H9 when using H9 Control.

      To Assign the Control Source to a Destination

      Press the Right Footswitch to select the MIDI Continuous Control that will be assigned to the H9 Control Source. The choices are:

      [OFF] – Control Source unassigned

      [C0] – [C99] – MIDI Continuous Controller from 0 to 99

      Press the Left and Right Footswitches to toggle between Source and Destination to make as many assignments as you wish. The default patch is as follows: [PDL.C15] and [KB0.C22] through [KB9.C31]"

      Can most or all of this be done in H9 Control to avoid using the incredibly tedious radio buttons, encoder knob, and tiny display on the H9s? There are no detailed instructions on whether to employ midi bend or cc changes for exp. pedal use, how to map parameter sweeps to heel / toe range of exp. pedal, etc. What does Pedal:C15 assignment actually do in the setup?

      Isn't there a simple way to just globally assign the next two units to mimic any expression pedal movement made by the first unit and have the expression pedal sweep their presets' assigned paramaters? And to see those actions occur while connected to H9 Control?

      Thanks in advance, any help greatly appreciated!

      Show Less...
    • #127453
      brock
      Participant

      KC, I do things a little differently MIDI-wise ("master" controllers with a MIDI pedalboard and outboard gear, with everything on my floor pedalboard as "slaves").  Just a disclaimer before I try to help with your questions here, as that's not how I have mine set up.  And you have a lot of loaded questions here.

      Quote:
      How do I get two additional H9s to respond to an expression pedal connected to one first unit. If the units are connected with midi cables A out> in B thru> in C, what all has to be done in midi setup to accomplish this? (What settings in H9 Control and what settings in the pedals themselves?)

      Someone correct me if I'm wrong here, but the expression won't be re-transmitted from B to C.  I'm not sure if you can 'mirror' all of the exact same settings for H9B and H9C, and have both respond to identical transmission from H9A.  I've seen where users have 'split' the physical EXP PED cable to 2 units with success.  Not so sure about 3 devices.  For two H9s, it'd be something like this:

      H9 A & H9 B = Set the XMT CHannel and RCV CHannel to same number [1-16 pick one]

      H9 A Output Mode = Transmit [XMT].  H9 B Output Mode = THRU.

      H9A XMT CC = PED > CC 15 (arbitrary).  H9 B RCV CTL = PED > CC 15 (match to XMT)

      Sorry to the 'mashup' of H9 Control settings, H9 inter-pedal, and PitchFactor thrown in together.  I can point you to whatever you can't find in H9, but most everything you need for this is under PEDAL -> MIDI Settings in H9 Control.  In General Settings, you'll need to have Expression Pedal enabled.

      Quote:
      So, midi functions cannot be utilized while connected to H9 Control via USB? So, once setup it would not function while connected to H9 Control? Would the expression control mappings for each preset entered via H9 Control still apply or does everything have to be mapped in the pedals' midi menus?

      Show More...

      Um, yeah (my experience).  MIDI DIN and USB share the same physical MIDI Port.  I don't have MIDI over Bluetooth set up, so that may be an option.  There's a new H9 Control feature under Settings: Connect MIDI Device to Eventide Device.  The laptop that I'm using for H9 Control has no DIN port, and my audio/MIDI interface for it crapped out.  Something to try out later.

      Everything that you set up in H9 control gets transferred over to the H9 system settings, so you don't have to navigate the H9 menus for initial setup.  But my current method involves unplugging the USB connections after setup adjustment – or preset programming – before actually using the pedalboard in a real-world application.  In other words, insert USB for H9 Control adjustments, then disconnect to actually use what I just added.

      Quote:
      Can most or all of this be done in H9 Control to avoid using the incredibly tedious radio buttons, encoder knob, and tiny display on the H9s? There are no detailed instructions on whether to employ midi bend or cc changes for exp. pedal use, how to map parameter sweeps to heel / toe range of exp. pedal, etc. What does Pedal:C15 assignment actually do in the setup?

      Yes to the 1st question (caveats above).  2nd question(s): It really doesn't matter which CC message to use (in this situation).  I think PitchBend is in there for PitchFactor algos used by (mainly) keyboardists with Pitch Wheels [although I have some issues with how the pitch functions land at a centered position].

      The important thing is to match a transmitted CC number to a received CC number in the next device.  There are 100 options here to make sure that one message doesn't control anything else, except for the functions you intend on the receiving device.  The MIN & MAX values of parameter ranges can be a separate discussion.  Easy enough in a Stompbox.  Easier in H9 Control.  I never set that up in the H9 pedal itself.

      Again, CC 15 for the pedal is an arbitrary setting.  The MIDI Spec suggests CC #4.  Eventide set up some default numbers for aux switches and KB0-KB9 [Parameter 1-10], for both transmission & reception.  They stay out of the way of each other.  It may be a different group of default CC numbers for each Stompbox.  Here, it won't matter.  Specific CC numbers start to matter in synthesizers, or pedals on the same MIDI Channel that are locked to certain CC numbers.

      Quote:
      Isn't there a simple way to just globally assign the next two units to mimic any expression pedal movement made by the first unit and have the expression pedal sweep their presets' assigned paramaters? And to see those actions occur while connected to H9 Control?

      Not that I know of.  Effectively, that's what I'm doing with a "master" MIDI footpedal / switchboard, with all of my audio devices slaving to it.  But I don't get visual feedback in H9 Control (for the reasons above).  Once everything is set up correctly, I do get visual feedback from the displays on most of the devices themselves.  For example, if I change MIDI Clock tempo, everything updates to the newest tempo.  Or if I use MIDI to change multiple parameters on multiple devices, they all reflect those changes in the LED displays.

      I don't know that I explained everything clearly here, so feel free to follow up.  Any initial attempts at MIDI synchronizations are baffling & fraught with frustration.  But the final rewards are well worth the effort.

      Show Less...
    • #127456
      KCStratman
      Member

      Thanks I had been through all the menus several times, I guess my dream of simply plugging in two midi cables, setting transmit or receive and omni or same channel and having full synch was a fantasy. I have setup plenty of program change and preset variable midi pedals and rack gear but mostly program change commands not higher function cc parameter mappings etc. For now I will Y the exp. pedal to two units, I wonder if a passive 3xTRS splitter would run three or drop the voltage and require an active splitter? First off I wanted to synch sweepable delay time ranges for the BE and BE Slow Arpegg algo preset pairs. Also I can think of other algo pairs to sweep in synch, delays and modulations, etc.

      Slightly different topic, what about tap tempo synch of multiple units from the tempo switch on one master unit? Is that not a basic midi link? If so, it would still be disabled during use of H9 Control?

      Thanks for the midi schooling, here I have been getting back to fx pedals to get away from rack fx with midi controller pedals, now I have fx pedals that need midi controller pedals 🙂 I do still have a pristine Digitech PMC-100 midi controller pedal ( 20 yrs old with hardwired programmer keypad) maybe I should break it out and ditch all my aux switches.

    • #127457
      KCStratman
      Member

      "H9 A & H9 B = Set the XMT CHannel and RCV CHannel to same number [1-16 pick one]

      H9 A Output Mode = Transmit [XMT].  H9 B Output Mode = THRU.

      H9A XMT CC = PED > CC 15 (arbitrary).  H9 B RCV CTL = PED > CC 15 (match to XMT)"

      Yes, thanks those are exactly the settings I tried, as well as the General settings and Midi settings in H9 Control menu. I will experiment more with synching up via midi but the fact that you can't visually confirm anything in H9 Control while midi-ing kills it for me. I guess a Y cable to two units will do.

    • #138153
      brock
      Participant

      KCStratman:

      I guess my dream of simply plugging in two midi cables, setting transmit or receive and omni or same channel and having full synch was a fantasy.

      Here, it gets more complicated with USB & MIDI DIN sharing the port, and inserting H9 Control into the chain.  Maybe less so with the new 'Connect MIDI Device to Eventide Device' option.  I like having all of the individual MIDI settings for versatility.  It can get complicated when you switch 'MIDI modes' a lot.

      Fortunately, the 'MIDI mode' switches almost become second nature with enough repetition.  This did prompt a thought: saving the entire System Settings for each pedal as a .syx file.  Not necessarily easier, but something for me to try here.

      Quote:
      For now I will Y the exp. pedal to two units, I wonder if a passive 3xTRS splitter would run three or drop the voltage and require an active splitter?

      That was my thought.  I haven't tried it, so I can't confirm.  But I was thinking of cobbling together a similar box for the expression output of my EHX 8 Step Program.

      Quote:
      First off I wanted to synch sweepable delay time ranges for the BE and BE Slow Arpegg algo preset pairs. Also I can think of other algo pairs to sweep in synch, delays and modulations, etc.

      Show More...

      Yes, that's the whole idea behind my somewhat convoluted MIDI setup.  This pair of harmonies goes with that set of delays at this modulation rate, etc.  Most can be done with sync'ed MIDI Clock, but the specialty routes need synchronized variable control.

      Quote:
      Slightly different topic, what about tap tempo synch of multiple units from the tempo switch on one master unit? Is that not a basic midi link? If so, it would still be disabled during use of H9 Control?

      MIDI Clock is independent of MIDI Channel, so it does apply across the board.  MIDI Clock Out enabled in the transmitter; MIDI Clock Input enabled on the receivers.  But it does get a little funky when H9 Control is involved.  Somewhat counterintuitively, you need to switch that around.

      Think of MIDI Clock settings as belonging to the MIDI DIN plug system, not H9 Control.  So, to use Tempo On and BPM adjustments in H9 Control, set the MIDI Clock – MIDI Input to No in the pedals.  While you're there, set MIDI Clock – MIDI Clock Output to Yes.  Now the current BPM in H9 Control (per pedal) will be reflected in the pedal itself. The LED displays should update the second that you hit ENTER, after double-clicking BPM & typing in a new value.

      Quote:
      Here I have been getting back to fx pedals to get away from rack fx with midi controller pedals, now I have fx pedals that need midi controller pedals 🙂 I do still have a pristine Digitech PMC-100 midi controller pedal ( 20 yrs old with hardwired programmer keypad).

      It's almost a necessity with more complex systems like yours.  It's one thing if you just want to hit a PC switch, and have the presets locked together from multiple pedals.  Quite another thing to make adjustments across the board that synchronize with other settings.

       

      Effectively, that's re-programming the presets on-the-fly.  With hands & brain occupied, your feet are the only things left to act as a mixdown engineer.  I try to do as much of the dirty work in advance, and consolidate it all into the least amount of tap-dancing.  Features like the HotSwitch & EXP PED routings give you 2 or more presets in one.

      Show Less...
    • #138578
      KCStratman
      Member

      I recently traded up to a Dual-Output Expression Pedal (EP-25K) from Mission Engineering and added a fourth H9 to my pedalboard. This allows easy simultaneous sweep of parameters on two units at once without setup headaches. The 25K pot in the Mission pedal gets read correctly 0 – 100 by the H9s on the first sweep under settings>exp. pedal calibration and then stays calibrated even after power down. Two H9s swept in tandem with the expression pedal allows all kinds of powerful effects morphing with some parameters sweeping forward and others reversing from heel to toe. Many of Brock's preset pairs listed under "preset share" jump to life with the sweep of the pedal (thanks for many great ideas Brock!)

    • #138584
      brock
      Participant

      Speechless (almost).  The mind boggles at the possibilities.

      Have you experimented at all with series / parallel combinations, KC?

    • #138588
      KCStratman
      Member

      Have not repatched for any parallel/series combinations yet, don't have a loop patcher at this time – a 1/4" patchbay to route all 8 ins and outs would be very handy in a less portable rack rig. The possibilities are indeed nearly limitless, I typically use three units for something like Chorus>Delay>Reverb and use the fourth for looper or special expression pedal controlled effects from simple wah to your wild meltdowns.

    • #138589
      siriusbliss
      Member

      I highly recommend looking at a Sound Sculpture Switchblade system.

      I have setups for parallel, serial, singular, mono, stereo, etc. for my PitchFactor, TimeFactor, and Eclipse.

      Works like a charm.

      G

    • #138590
      LA Keys
      Participant

      Hi guys,

      Just tried that and noticed two little things:

      – First, on my H9s for RCV.CTL I see EXP not PED. Is that the same on your side?

      – Second, If I use a "real" expression pedal, or the hot knob, I see the leds around the knobs indicating the value. BUT if I use midi the led ring doesn't change, although the value is displayed on the LCD.

      Humm looks like a bug to me?

      EVENTIDE: Could you please make the led's ring around the hot knob to display the midi EXP value?

      LA

    • #138595
      gkellum
      Member

      LA Keys:

      EVENTIDE: Could you please make the led's ring around the hot knob to display the midi EXP value?

      Thanks.  I marked that as a bug in our bug tracking system.

Viewing 10 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.