Expression pedal to H9

[rsvmark]

Hi everyone and HNY.

I need a bit of help and I apologise in advance if this topic has been done to death- linking an expression pedal to my H9.

So I treated myself to a Boss FV500L and have linked it into my H9. I have not added a separate Aux switch. Everything works well but in reverse? So while it controls everything I want it to, the heel down value is 100 and the toe down is 0. This is all a bit counter intuitive.

I have no doubt this is user error but I can’t figure out how to ‘reverse’ the calibration. It may be because I am using a normal mono patch lead but I can’t find anything that states it needs to be stereo- but I may have missed it.

Would anyone on here know the answer or be able to advise?

Thanks in advance

[gkellum]

The H9 only needs two values to drive the expression pedal.  My colleague, Nick, might chime in to clarify which of the two values are needed of the three: tip, ring, and sleeve, and which two values a mono cable would likely be sending.  But it's likely that a mono cable isn't sending the two values expected or not in the expected order.  The manual of the 500-L says to use a stereo cable: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/media/fv500l_manual.pdf

[rsvmark]

gkellum wrote:

The H9 only needs two values to drive the expression pedal.  My colleague, Nick, might chime in to clarify which of the two values are needed of the three: tip, ring, and sleeve, and which two values a mono cable would likely be sending.  But it’s likely that a mono cable isn’t sending the two values expected or not in the expected order.  The manual of the 500-L says to use a stereo cable: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/media/fv500l_manual.pdf

Thanks. I bought the pedal sh so didnt get a manual. Trip to Amazon on the way for a cable then. Hopefully that should do the trick

[nickrose]

The expression pedal would normally be connected between tip and sleeve, for example by a mono cable. Make sure that EXPTIP is set appropriately.

 

 

[rsvmark]

nickrose wrote:

The expression pedal would normally be connected between tip and sleeve, for example by a mono cable. Make sure that EXPTIP is set appropriately.

 

 

Thanks – and yes, it is set to pedal only

[rsvmark]

Ok guys…..help still needed. I now have a TRS cable. I have plugged the TRS into the H9, and the 2 mono jacks are in the expression pedal and the other is into a new aux footswitch. Red into the exp pedal. I have reset the parameters to ‘both’ and am using the aux switch to scroll down and the right foot switch on the H9 to scroll up. All working fine there.

But the expression pedal is still in ‘reverse’ ie toe down the value is 0 and heel down, the value is 100.

On the boss pedal there is a trim pot which is currently rotated fully clockwise. If I rotate this fully anti clockwise the pedal recalibrates itself from 0-47-0 (heel down-middle-toe down)

Any further tricks or tips to try?
Thanks

[rsvmark]

Final update on testing- I have an option to go TRS to TRS and have disconnected the aux switch. Finally the top down value is 100 but the heel down value is 92….

[gkellum]

rsvmark wrote:

Final update on testing- I have an option to go TRS to TRS and have disconnected the aux switch. Finally the top down value is 100 but the heel down value is 92….

Could you try recalibrating the expression pedal to see if that helps?  To calibrate the expression pedal in H9 Control, click on the Pedal button in the bottom menu bar, go to General Settings, and go Pedal Calibration Disabled.  Disable it and then enable it to make your H9 forget the previous calibration setting.  Then, with it enabled, move the expression pedal from heal to toe, and once you are finished calibrating it, disable pedal calibration again to lock out any further changes.

[spaceJam]

OK found the thread.

 

And yes, calibrate the expression pedal, use a TRS cable and make sure the knob on the left side is set to off position (full counterclockwise).

[rsvmark]

spaceJam wrote:

OK found the thread.

 

And yes, calibrate the expression pedal, use a TRS cable and make sure the knob on the left side is set to off position (full counterclockwise).

Thanks spacejam so that’s a TRS to trs? I tried re calibrating the pedal but didn’t work. Probably did it wrong- is there a thread somewhere that shows it step by step?

Final question – so does your set up have an aux pedal footswitch to switch presets? If so,

[rsvmark]

Folks- sorry to be a pain but I am almost there. I have tried every combination possible. anyway, long story short, using a TRS to TRS I have managed to re calibrate the h9. The trim pot on the side of my expression pedal needs to be rotated fully anti clockwise. So now that is 50% mission accomplished. Heel down is zero, toe down is 100. So far so good.

Swapping cables with the same calibration to 2 mono jacks into one TRS almost gets me there again. The aux switch successfully allows me to toggle down patches but the pedal has now changed to 0-100-0 settings, so max value is mid point in the range.

At this point I am faced with 2 choices- use a TRS to TRS and forget using the aux switch which is a pain- I really wanted to make it easy for gigs but this option allows me to have a properly calibrated expression pedal. Or using the second cable I can use the aux switch but put up with the 0-100-0 sweep.

Any further suggestions would be welcome.

My only other thought is whether I could ‘fool’ the h9 by swapping the mono jack currently on there and replacing it with a TRS jack- but obviously only soldering the tip and either the ring or the sleeve. This might get me the 0-100 sweep in scenario 1 above but allow the use of the aux switch. I am no electrical expert here so your help is greatly appreciated

Thanks

[gkellum]

Sorry that you've been having such a rough time getting this working.  We had done some research ourselves a year or so ago about controlling an H9 with an aux switch and expression pedal, and we were surprised by how many cases expression pedals there are being sold where this simply wouldn't work correctly.  My colleague, Nick, wrote a howto guide explaining how to set this up and he urged people to use one of the products we know to work for this.  (We don't have any sort of financial relationship with the makers of those products by the way.)

Please take a look at Nick's howto guide.  I think he mentions the problem you've been experiencing as something that can happen if one tries to use a volume pedal for the expression pedal together with an Aux switch:

https://www.eventideaudio.com/support/downloads/using-both-aux-switch-and-expression-pedal-h9

[rsvmark]

Hi gkellum
Thanks for the response. I did read that article and it’s ironic I am getting the reverse! So using the ‘correct’ cable (TRS to 2 mono jacks) gets me the ‘strange mysterious’ reaction including the 0-100-0 calibration but the straight TRS to TRS actually works fine and gets the corr ct operation but there is no way of modifying the set up to use an additional aux footswitch.

The boss FV500L is a volume and an expression pedal and is sold as such. However, having taken it apart this evening, internal modification looks risky without causing irreversible damage.

What do you think of the idea of replacing one of the mono jacks (on the ‘correct’ lead) with a stereo jack? My thinking is that the mono Jack must be connecting to 2 connections plus the tip. By replacing it with a TRS, I might get the 2 signals the h9 needs (which I get when I use a TRS to TRS)

Spacejam: thanks for the suggestion mate but I don’t really want to go down the midi route. If Eventide and I can come up with a cunning plan to easily toggle up and down I will be happy. I am planning on having some 20-30 presets for our set- it just makes navigation so much easier.

[gkellum]

rsvmark wrote:

What do you think of the idea of replacing one of the mono jacks (on the 'correct' lead) with a stereo jack? My thinking is that the mono Jack must be connecting to 2 connections plus the tip. By replacing it with a TRS, I might get the 2 signals the h9 needs (which I get when I use a TRS to TRS)

That sounds like a reasonable suspicion.  Maybe, my colleague, Nick, will chime in with some feedback on this idea.  He implemented the analog section of the H9 and knows his way around these sorts of problems very well.

[spaceJam]

rsvmark,

I’m not using an AUX alongside the Expression pedal, I have a MIDI controller to control presets and parameters.

Have you considered using a MIDI controller for controlling your H9 live?

[nickrose]

I have to suggest that you follow the guidelines in the document Greg mentions.  Anything else, you're sort of on your own.

If you get the 0-100-0 effect with a mono cable, this means that you are using a volume pedal rather than a pure expression pedal. You can fix this by cutting off the wire going from the ring connection on the jack to the control.  Or, you could replace the mono jack plug with a stereo one, and leave the ring unconnected.

 

 

[rsvmark]

nickrose wrote:

I have to suggest that you follow the guidelines in the document Greg mentions.  Anything else, you're sort of on your own.

If you get the 0-100-0 effect with a mono cable, this means that you are using a volume pedal rather than a pure expression pedal. You can fix this by cutting off the wire going from the ring connection on the jack to the control.  Or, you could replace the mono jack plug with a stereo one, and leave the ring unconnected.

 

 

Hi Nick
to confirm I have followed the guidance exactly as the document sets out but it does result in the two alternative scenarios I described above. I am going to try replacing the mono Jack with a stereo one as my final attempt. I do have soldering iron but I have never attempted making my own leads before. Apologies for being a noob but it would be great if you could confirm the following connections.

I will snip off and strip back the mono Jack connected into the boss pedal. After stripping back the cable to expose core wires and braid, I solder the core cable to the central pice which will connect to the tip of a new TRS Jack, and the braided outer to the outer element leaving the ring (middle connection) not connected?

Thanks
Mark

[rsvmark]

So this evening I have taken the mono Jack off and replaced it with a TRS Jack. As suggested I have soldered it by connecting tip and sleeve only and left the ring in connected. Switching back the pedal using the app the ‘both’ I can toggle up and down presets. I have switched the automatic calibration back on and I have 0 at heel down and 100 at toe down. It works!

A minor victory for me and now I can get on with the serious business of playing and setting up my preset lists ready for the next gig. Thanks to the Eventide fellas for pointing me in the right direction (and of course for such a fantastic product). Feel free to point others using the boss FV500L in this direction. The boss pedal needs a TRS Jack fitted that the expression pedal end to work as an expression pedal. A bespoke lead is required if you want to run the additional footswitch.

[gkellum]

rsvmark wrote:

It works!

Awesome!!!  I'm glad it worked out.  I'm sure that was gratifying when everything worked as anticipated.

[stari]

Hey rsvmark

Just wondering as I’m looking to use an Aux Switch with an expression pedal as well, is there an Aux Switch that you can recommend? I was looking at one online, and was told that the Aux Switch will work with an expression pedal but it will only give me toe, or tip position. 

Thanks!

[nickrose]

stari wrote:

Just wondering as I'm looking to use an Aux Switch with an expression pedal as well, is there an Aux Switch that you can recommend? I was looking at one online, and

I would suggest that you look at the "Documentation and Downloads" section on the H9 Web Page. You may find "Using both an Aux switch and an Expression pedal with H9" interesting.

[stari]

nickrose wrote:

stari wrote:

Just wondering as I’m looking to use an Aux Switch with an expression pedal as well, is there an Aux Switch that you can recommend? I was looking at one online, and

I would suggest that you look at the “Documentation and Downloads” section on the H9 Web Page. You may find “Using both an Aux switch and an Expression pedal with H9” interesting.

 

I did look at that section, as well as go through the support forum. I was just hoping that there were other alternatives other than the Boss aux switch, and I was wondering about the issue that someone told me that by using the expression with the aux, and only getting toe/tip down position- so my understanding is that it’s either 0 or 100. 

Thank you!

[gkellum]

stari wrote:

I did look at that section, as well as go through the support forum. I was just hoping that there were other alternatives other than the Boss aux switch, and I was wondering about the issue that someone told me that by using the expression with the aux, and only getting toe/tip down position- so my understanding is that it's either 0 or 100. 

There are other alternatives to the Boss switch.  The guys at Barn3 released a really neat product for the H9 very recently which is 2 aux switches with an expression pedal jack:  http://www.barn3.com

If you just want to use it as an Aux switch, then you can assign functions to the two switches (using Ring and Tip + Ring).

If you want to use it as an Aux switch plus expression pedal, then you can only use one aux switch at a time and you can plug an expression pedal into the jack on the side.  The expression pedal will hit all of the values from 0 – 100.  In this mode you can also press the 2nd aux switch and it will control the expression pedal patch but just go from 0 to 100 and not hit any values in between.

What's neat about this product is that it sits flush with the H9 and allows you to easily go from a set-up with 2 aux switches to a set-up with an aux switch plus expression pedal without needing to fiddle with Y cables.  

If you want to get one of these, I'd use one of the expression pedals we recommended in the above howto guide.

[rsvmark]

stari wrote:

Hey rsvmark

Just wondering as I’m looking to use an Aux Switch with an expression pedal as well, is there an Aux Switch that you can recommend? I was looking at one online, and was told that the Aux Switch will work with an expression pedal but it will only give me toe, or tip position. 

Thanks!

Hi Stari
Those barn3 ones look good but I was slightly confused. Posts above imply the expression pedal value go from 0 OR 100 but nothing in between? I would check that. If you are in the UK try bright onion pedals- they do a really small one with a polarity switch for £20 that other guitarists recommended to me. And definately get a recommended pedal- my boss one works great (now) but it took lots of head scratching to find the solution!

Have fun

[stari]

Thanks everyone. 

I ended up ordering the barn3 pedal. I appreciate all your suggestions and advice. Thank you!

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