H9 – controlling Midi CC from Musicomlab EFX MKIV

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    • #112449
      harmamusic
      Member

      Hi,

      I just bought a Musicomlab EFX MKIV which is great to control my analog pedals and my 2 H9s via Midi Program changes. 

      I normally used an expression pedal combined with a tap tempo switch to control tap tempo on bothh my H9s via midi clock by using one H9 as master and the other as following the midi clock. Since the change to the Musicomlab this doens't work anymore because I have to set the midi out of the first H9 after the Musicomlab to through and it won't send any midi clock messages anymore.

      I'm looking at the options. Creating a cable that uses 1 tap tempo switch with 2 expression pedals sending the tap tempo to both H9's and use 2 separate expression pedals to control the parameters of the H9. 

      I might also use midi CC send from the Musicomlab? 

      Apart from that I'm also interested to know what practical usages there are from using midi CC with a certain value from the Musicomlab send to the H9s when selecting/changing presets on the Musicomlab. The Musicomlab can also use an expression pedal to send midi CC. 

      What values are interesting to use via midi CC to control the H9? I noticed you can change all the parameter knobs, stuff like bypass, tap tempo etc. 

      So If I the Musicomlab would send a midi CC to control tap tempo with a value between 0 and 127 it would set the tempo on the H9 listening to that midi channel?

      Who uses midi CC to control their H9s and for what options? 

      Cheers.

      Harry

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    • #127662
      LA Keys
      Participant

      harmamusic:

      So If I the Musicomlab would send a midi CC to control tap tempo with a value between 0 and 127 it would set the tempo on the H9 listening to that midi channel?

      On the MKIB  you need to set the swith type to "momentary" and the value sent to 127. Of course the CCs should match between the H9 and the MKIV.

      harmamusic:

      Who uses midi CC to control their H9s and for what options

      Probably as many ways to use that as there are users… A very nice feature is that you could have both H9s to simultaneously change presets (not necessarely the same) with a single CC.  (hint: receive map)

      You can also control expression on the H9 via midi. You just have to set RCV.CTL, setup destination EXP. See page 35-36 of the manual, but note that the manual forgot to mention EXP as a destination. You could then control as many H9s as you which with a single pedal this way. (hint: XMT CC, page 38).

      harmamusic:

      The Musicomlab can also use an expression pedal to send midi CC.

      But then if the MKIV can send CC directly from a single expression pedal you don't really need the XMT CC… So many ways to hook up everything.

      LA

    • #138646
      harmamusic
      Member

      Some good tips, thanks! I understand how it works now. Cool thing with the MKIV is that it allows for the CC value between 0 and 127 which makes it possible to control on and off for things like bypass, tuner etc. 

      So basically I can use the FS1 to 4 as footswitches to control the tap tempo repeatedly or doesn't it work like that?

    • #138647
      LA Keys
      Participant

      harmamusic:

      So basically I can use the FS1 to 4 as footswitches to control the tap tempo repeatedly or doesn't it work like that?

      Yes that should be possible. Here is the what you need to do:

      On the H9 software:

      – Select the "Pedal" tab

      – Click "Midi setttings"

      – Click "Assign midi cc messages to pedal functions"

      – Click "Tap tempo"

      – Select any MIDI CC

      On the MKIV:

      I don't own an MKIV thus cannot provide all the details but basically you will have to configure one switch as intermittent. Make it send the same CC number that you selected for the H9 tap tempo, the value sent should be 127.  (Don't confuse CC number with CC value. The CC number is the one you selected on the H9, the value need to 127 in all cases)

      The switch on the MKIV should now act the same way as the tap tempo switch on the H9.

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      LA

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    • #138648
      harmamusic
      Member

      Ok, I have it working now. The manual of the EFX MKIV Is quite bad TBH.

      At first I didn't know how to set the CC channels above 14 to on and off per preset. I had to set the IA max page to a higher number (3 or 4) to be able to access them. I can now use them to Activate the H9 per preset. 

      Secondly it wasn't totally clear that the loops themselves also send out CC values. So for FS1 I had to set CC channel #11 to send out CC number 20 for instance for tap tempo. I can now indeed control tap tempo with FS1. 

      Only thing I haven't figured out yet is how to get out of Instant Access mode easily with the foot without storing changes. 

      Also can I get to the FS1 for tap tempo without going in Instant Access mode? 

      Thanks!

    • #138649
      harmamusic
      Member

      Also found out there is a preset 000 that I could use for tap tempo and other stuff. 

      It's not described clearly in the manual AFAIKT? When preset 1 (or any other preset) is active and you press the switch for the same number again the EFX MKIV goes to preset 000. To get out of this you still need to use enter/store and hold it. 

    • #138650
      harmamusic
      Member

      So it's workable to use a preset, select it's IA2 and use FS1 to set tap tempo. Only thing that bothers me is that exit at that time would've been much easier to exit out of the instant access mode. 

      Only thing I haven't been able to make work is getting tap tempo to 2 H9's with only FS1 of the Musicomlab EFX MKIV.

      Somehow the first H9 which has CLK OUT set doesn't send it's clock through to the other H9 when receiving the tap tempo CC from the Musicomlab, even when the output mode is set to XMT? 

      @Eventide: is that a potential bug? When CC Mapping is set the CC20 for Tap tempo on H9 #1 and it's output mode is set to XMT it doesn't send CLK OUT? 

    • #138651
      LA Keys
      Participant

      harmamusic:

      Ok, I have it working now

      Great!

      harmamusic:

      Also can I get to the FS1 for tap tempo without going in Instant Access mode?

      As I said before I don't have an MKIV myself. I was just able to read the (poorly written) manual and guide you based on general midi knowledge. You will certainly have to ask any specific question about the MKIV to them directly. You may even think of asking them for a specific features once you will know the MKIV better.

      LA

    • #138652
      LA Keys
      Participant

      harmamusic:

      Only thing I haven't been able to make work is getting tap tempo to 2 H9's with only FS1 of the Musicomlab EFX MKIV.

      Somehow the first H9 which has CLK OUT set doesn't send it's clock through to the other H9 when receiving the tap tempo CC from the Musicomlab, even when the output mode is set to XMT? 

      @Eventide: is that a potential bug? When CC Mapping is set the CC20 for Tap tempo on H9 #1 and it's output mode is set to XMT it doesn't send CLK OUT? 

      Ok, I'll explain how you could have the second H9 respond to tap tempo from the MKIV. (No, it's not a bug)

      There's 2 ways to do it:

      The easiest way is to set the first H9 to "midi thru" with the H9 control software:

      Pedal  ->  Midi settings  ->  Midi output mode  -> Midi thru.

      This way everything received by the first H9 will be sent to to output midi port.

      The second H9 will then be setup the exact same way as you did for the first H9 regarding what you did for the tap tempo.  The midi output mode could also be set to midi thru, just in case you want to put a third H9 after the second one.

      If you which to verify your setup on the second pedal you could just put it first and see if it respond correctly.

      The main advantage of using midi thru is that everything sent from the MKIV will then reach both H9 on the midi chain. They will both receive the same thing from the MKIV.

      If you want to have only one H9 to respond to a specific command (CC) from the MKIV you will then configure only this H9 to respond to the CC sent from the MKIV. This is the best way if you want to use the MKIV to control everything on both H9.

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      The disavantage of using midi thru is that the first H9 could not send any command directly to the second H9. Likewise you cannot send a midi clock from the first H9 to the second. Of course both H9s will have the same tempo because they will both respond to the tap tempo sent from the MKIV, but this is not exactly the same as using midi clock, although the result is very similar.

      Also make sure that on both H9s all three midi clock setting are set to NO, to avoid any conflict between midi clock and tap tempo.

      OK… I need a little bit mor coffee before explaining the second way…

      Coffee

      LA

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    • #138653
      harmamusic
      Member

      Thanks for all your help! I've worked my way around it for the moment. I'm waiting for feedback from Korea/Musicomlab.

      I also got the looper of the H9 working with the CCs. Cool stuff. 😉

    • #138654
      harmamusic
      Member

      I would still be interested in the 2nd way? 

      The first option you described has the disadvantage that both H9s must use the same midi channel. Controlling the active state of both H9s separately is not easy to do AFAIKT.

      also the program changes should be done in the 2nd H9 in a receive map which is not as flexible as using the Musicomlab to control specific combinations which is fixed with the mapping on the H9

    • #138655
      LA Keys
      Participant

      harmamusic:

      The first option you described has the disadvantage that both H9s must use the same midi channel.

      No. They could use a different channel even if the first H9 is set to midi thru. You could then have the MKIV set to channel 1 to talk to the first H9 set to CH1, while using CH2 for the second H9.

      Midi channels are in fact often used to distinguish multiples instruments on a midi chain. Any midi devices set to pass thru will in fact pass all the channels. By definition the pass thru output is a "mirror" of the midi input.

      I'll be back to you shortly about the 2nd way. But for now understand that the first way is easier to manage.

      LA

    • #138656
      LA Keys
      Participant

      Explaining my previous post for tap tempo:

      On the H9 control app: Set the first H9 to channel 1, the second to channel 2. Every thing else is the same as you did before to have both H9s to respond to tap tempo from the MKIV.

      On the MKIV: Instead of setting only one CC like you did before you will set two CC, one on channel 1, one on channel 2  (both CC number are the same as what you used before). The MKIV will then send the same CC, but on both channels. The first H1 will listen to channel 1, the second H1 to channel 2.

      Now, every time you want to control something on the first H9 you will send a CC on channel 1 and use channel 2 for the second H9.

      LA

    • #138657
      harmamusic
      Member

      Thanks again for all your help. I do know the basics of midi so I understand how midi thru and stuff works. 

      I've checked the menu structure of the EFX MKIV and AFAIKT it can only send one CC per footswitch? That's why I was reluctant to use your solution as I don't see how I can send CC20 (tap tempo in my case) to H9 #1 on midi channel 1 and H9 #2 to midi channel 2 with only one footswitch? 

      The CC corresponds to the footswitch used. FS1 is CC11 on which I can specify CC channel 01 (or 02) for the midi channel and CC number 20 as the actual CC value.

      DId this work differently with the MKIII(+)? 

      LA Keys:

      Explaining my previous post for tap tempo:

      On the H9 control app: Set the first H9 to channel 1, the second to channel 2. Every thing else is the same as you did before to have both H9s to respond to tap tempo from the MKIV.

      On the MKIV: Instead of setting only one CC like you did before you will set two CC, one on channel 1, one on channel 2  (both CC number are the same as what you used before). The MKIV will then send the same CC, but on both channels. The first H1 will listen to channel 1, the second H1 to channel 2.

      Now, every time you want to control something on the first H9 you will send a CC on channel 1 and use channel 2 for the second H9.

      LA

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  • #138661
    LA Keys
    Participant

    harmamusic:

    I've checked the menu structure of the EFX MKIV and AFAIKT it can only send one CC per footswitch?

    Sad Lightning

    My bad, I tought that the MKIV could send more that one CC per footswitch.

    I have to go, I'll came back later today and explain the second way. Basically you will want to set the first H9 same way but send midi clock. The second H9 will then be set to receive midi clock.

    LA

  • #138662
    harmamusic
    Member

    I now have setup presets to send activate on or off via CC 15 to the first H9 on midi channel 1 and the second H9 via CC16 and midi channel 2. These are the "channels" that correspond to the switches 1 and 2 on the IA3. 

    For tap tempo I currently use the CC11 which corresponds to FS1 sending CC number 20 on channel 1. I see no way to also use FS1 to control tap tempo on the second H9. I could of course send a tap tempo command to the second H9 on one of the other available IAs but that's not via using FS1 repeatedly like the tap tempo on the device itself. 

  • #138663
    harmamusic
    Member

    LA Keys:

    My bad, I tought that the MKIV could send more that one CC per footswitch.

    No problem. Their manuals could use a real improvement TBH. 🙂

    I've always used the 2nd way with my 2H9s using tap tempo via an external switch on the first H9 using midi clock. With the Musicomlab setup it sends the cc value to the first H9 which sets it tempo accordingly. For the midi clock to be send out it needs to have the midi out to xmt instead of thru.

    When I tried this the cc value for tap tempo received on the first H9 wasn't converted to a midi clock setting. So it doesn't seem to work. That's why I was asking if this was a bug?

  • #138665
    LA Keys
    Participant

    harmamusic:

    When I tried this the cc value for tap tempo received on the first H9 wasn't converted to a midi clock setting. So it doesn't seem to work. That's why I was asking if this was a bug?

    Do you got this working? If you enable midi clock output on the first H9 and set midi output to xmt it will transmit midi clock either from a physical pedal connected to it or from a received CC. On the second H9 you just need to enable receive midi clock. I guarantee that this is working.

    Ok, so you basically got the main point of the second way: Setting the first H9 to midi xmit Instead of thru.

    The problem with that is that anything sent from the MKIV will NOT be transmitted to the second H9… (because the first H9 is not set to thru). You then need the first H9 to map the change you want to do on the second H9. It now appear to me that it is the only solution since the MKIV is sending only one CC per switch.

    To do this you will have to read about XMT CC (page 38 of the pdf manual). The most interesting part is about KB0 to KB9. This is very useful if you want the first H9 to repond to some parameters set on the MKIV but also to "re-send" those mapped parameters to the second H9. Very powerful, but a bit complex.

    There's also a discussion about using a single expression pedal to control multiple H9 using this principle here:

    http://forum.eventide.com/cs/forums/t/9992.aspx

    Sadly the main limitation is that while you can map parameters (virtual knobs), you cannot use  XMT MAP to map Program changes. (read manual page 40 about this).

    Because of this I've always preffered the first solution (midi thru), but it's problematic to use if you can send only one CC per switch and also because the midi clock is not transmitted this way.

    Well, there's actually a 3rd solution. It does involve using midi splitter and merger. It work this way: You first split the output from the MKIV. One output to the first H9, the second to a midi merge.

    The first H9 is set to midi xmit, solving the midi clock problem. The output of the first H9 is then combined (merged)  with the original midi sent from the MKIV, allowing the MKIV to talk directly to both H9.  The H9s could be on the same or distinct channel.

    If you're interested about this have a look at the midi-solution website:

    http://www.midisolutions.com/

    LA

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  • #138668
    harmamusic
    Member

    LA Keys:

    Do you got this working? If you enable midi clock output on the first H9 and set midi output to xmt it will transmit midi clock either from a physical pedal connected to it or from a received CC. On the second H9 you just need to enable receive midi clock. I guarantee that this is working.

    Well, there's actually a 3rd solution. It does involve using midi splitter and merger. It work this way: You first split the output from the MKIV. One output to the first H9, the second to a midi merge.

    I'm thinking of an easier way then this: I've used the first H9 with an expression pedal that was connected to my custom made tap tempo switch via a Y-cable. The first H9 send out midi clock to the second one which was working fine. 

    With the Musicomlab I introduced some complexity by trying to use one of it's footswitches for tap tempo which is not working properly IMO. 

    What I'm going to try is wire my tap tempo switch to 2 expression pedals for the H9s via a double Y cable that's modded. The tap tempo part will be wired into both Y cables (duplicated). I already used 2 expression pedals where one was stock and the other was modded with the Y-cable. 

    So the tap tempo switch should be sending out tap tempo to both H9s if I'm correct. Should be like the post that describes how to use one expression pedal with 2 H9s. That's probably an easier and cheaper solution then going the midi split/merge route. 

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    At the end of my chain there's an Axe Fx II that will need to respond to the program changes from the Musicomlab and tap tempo/midi clock from the H9.

    Thanks for all your time. I think this has become a valuable post for other users. 😉

    Cheers,

    Harry

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  • #138671
    LA Keys
    Participant

    harmamusic:

    That's probably an easier and cheaper solution then going the midi split/merge route. 

    Agreed. That should be fine as long as you don't need midi clock for the Axe FX II…

    harmamusic:

    That's probably an easier and cheaper solution then going the midi split/merge route. 

    About this, I was trying to find an excellent previous post showing an alternate solution to Merge/Splitter using a single MidiSport 2×2 and finally found it.

    Here is the link:

    http://forum.eventide.com/cs/forums/t/7331.aspx?PageIndex=1

    I think you should gave it a look. It's anyways right along this topics and is an elegant solution to the "typical" midi clock problem. Note that the author made 2 graphics: one with the "conventional" spitter/merge way, the other with a single MIDISport 2×2. The later is to me a very clever way to solve the problem.

    LA

  • #139320
    leotio
    Participant

    I have 2 h9s that I control with a midi audio looper labeled mAx control model FCX-8 , this thing work as well as any othe controllers out there, I have a vol and expression pedals in the chain, the expression pedal was wired straight to the first h9 (1/4″ jack).
    It occurred to me the other day that I wanted to control on one preset the 2 Lagos on the 2 h9 at the same time, but I only have 1 expression pedal….I am new to the midi thing, but reading about it I discovered that I could assign the pedal to either one or both h9s through cc messages.
    The controller has 2 expression pedal inputs, I took it out of the h9 and plugged into exp pedal1, in the menu I made it active and in the intended preset also, assigned cc#2, and followed instructions on how to set the expression pedal on the h9.
    The controller sends some kind of message, as the h9 shows a value# when the preset is selected, however I get not expression control, only when is plugged in directly into the h9.
    Does anyone have an idea of what is wrong with this set up?

  • #140713
    7thstring
    Member

    Hi all,

    Thought I’d jump into this thread rather than start a new one.

    I’ve just traded for an H9 Max with a mate. I have a MusicomLabs MkIV controller.

    I’m not too fluent in MIDI-speak.. I’ve managed to set up the Mobius fine to switch presets, turn on and off using CC15 button etc, but I’m having a bit of a nightmare with the H9.

    I’ll overview everything I’ve done. Can you please let me know if anything stands out as wrong?

    I currently have the MIDI cables going MkIV -> H9 -> Mobius

    But I have the MIDI channels set up as Mobius 1, H9 2 (I didn’t think this would matter) as that’s how it was when I had a Timeline.

    I’ve set the H9 to channel 2 in control.

    I’ve set CC16 to channel to in the MkIV.

    I’ve set the H9 to Thru.

    I have set the activate/deactivate CC to 102 in Control.

    Yet, when I click the CC16 switch in the MkIV if does not turn the H9 on and off.

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    If I cycle through the patch on the MkIV, it cycles through the presets in the H9 as I previously set the MkIV up as ‘patch 1 = preset 1’, ‘patch 2 = preset 2’ etc.

    So that part seems to work fine.

    But I’d like to be able to turn the H9 on and off with each preset as needed. But I can’t seem to do this.

    Also… The tuner doesn’t seem to work..?!

    I’ve tried just plugging directly into the H9 with a guitar and it still didn’t want to work.

    Any idea why the tuner may not be responding?

    I really wanted to lose my tuner and just use the H9!

    Please feel free to ask any questions.

    Would love to get this sorted..

    Appreciate any help.

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  • #140717
    7thstring
    Member

    Ok, I got some more hands on time.

    I removed the Möbius completely (I reckon I’ll get a Core instead anyway) and have set the H9 up on channel 1.

    I’ve now managed to get the tuner working fine on the 000 MkIV preset.

    I’m encountering what I imagine is a latched vs momentary issue with turning the H9 on and off though.
    I have to hit the CC15 foot switchgear to turn it on and twice to turn it off. Then, even if I save the patch with the H9 activated, I switch back to the preset and it’s not activated. I see it flick on them flick off and stay off.

    Sorry if this is common ground.. It’s all very new to me.

    Any help would be much appreciated please!

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