H9 limitation of one effect at a time….

Home Forums Products Stompboxes H9 limitation of one effect at a time….

Viewing 11 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #159116
      Adam DAgosto
      Participant

      Hi. First time posting here. Also not an H9 owner (yet)….

      A lot has been written about the H9’s limitation of only being able to allow one effect at a time. But little seems to be directly addressing the many effects that actually combine multiple effects into one, thus precluding the need for “multiple simultaneous” effects like you can get with the Line 6 Stomp or HXFX or Boss GT-1000….

      So, my question for the H9 users, how much of a “limitation” is the one-effect-at-a-time limitation?

      Do you find that you’re able to find algorithms that enable you to combine various modulations with delays and even reverbs? I know there’s at least one that’s dedicated to this function, but just one?

      In any event, other that getting two H9’s do you find in practical application one is enough or is it helpful to also have other pedals such as a dedicated delay or reverb?

      Thoughts?

      Thx, Adam

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

    • #159120
      apalazzolo
      Participant

      The H9 runs one of 52 algorithms at a time. Each algo performs one, two, three, or four different effects at a time, depending on the specifics of the algo.  Believe me, the guys who put these algos together chose the effects in each one wisely.  There are limitations; it is not infinitely flexible .. just ridiculously flexible.

      For example, an algo named Modechoverb provides any one or combination of modulation (your choice of flange or chorus), echo (an analog style delay), and/or reverb; that’s why it’s called mod(ulation)-echo-(re)verb. That’s three effects at once.

      Another algo called Spacetime provides any one or combination of chorus, dual digital delay, and/or reverb. That’s four effects at once.  This one is particularly powerful because the algo can change the effect routing (series vs parallel) too.

      Do you want compression, volume pedal, and/or two bands of parametric eq (plus highpass and lowpass)? That algo is Eqcompressor.

      Do you want distortion/fuzz, eq, and/or autowah, or manual wah? That’s an algo named Sculpt.

      … leslie and/or reverb? Spacetime.

      …analog chorus and/or analog style delay? Vintage delay.

      …pitchshift/chorus and/or digital delay Micropitch.

      … delay, fuzz, and/or harmonizer? Pitchfuzz.

      … stereo leslie, stereo chorus, or stereo flange? Tricerachorus.

      … harmonic trem, or optical trem, or bias trem, or squarewave/chop, all with or without overdrive? Harmadillo.

      … octave and/or dual delay? H910 H949

      … and I could go on for 1/2 hour.

      Plus, one can morph between any of these effect combinations in real time with an expression pedal. Plus, in 22 of the 52 algos, one can switch between the effect combinations (in real time with no glitch or lag) with a footswitch (called the Hotswitch).

      • #163628
        JavyMontoya
        Participant

        “Plus, in 22 of the 52 algos, one can switch between the effect combinations (in real time with no glitch or lag) with a footswitch (called the Hotswitch).”

        Woah! Any brief explanation on this available without you having to write too much? Somewhere in a manual that I missed? What 2 example algorithms? I’m  just integrating the H9 with my RJM switcher.

    • #159122
      Adam DAgosto
      Participant

      Ok….this has to be the most thorough and thoughtful response I’ve gotten from a forum post….ever.

      In short….no there’s no real limitation. Well, yes there is a limitation, but for a guy like me….nope.

      I’m sold.

      Thank you so much!!

      AD

    • #159124
      PRSGUY513
      Participant

      Apalazzolo summed it up perfectly. There’s always the chance with us effect nuts to get greedy and want the one thing some device can’t do, but the H9 does a bunch and sounds excellent doing it. Also, it’s impedance matching and leveling ability was something that surprised me. Meaning it works well in front of and in the FX loop of any amp I have used it with. Eventide added a bunch of cool and useful algorithms to make it a processor with longevity.

    • #159127
      Adam DAgosto
      Participant

      Yeah I have long planning to go with a Line 6 Stomp. In part because of the desire to have a bunch of amp models and the ability to add multiple effects at once. All I can see myself really needing would be chorus with delay and reverb. But the Stomp adds the ability to include a compressor and wah all at the same time. Kinda cool.

      But, I recently added a Revival Drive Compact to my board plus already having a Mesa Boogie Flux-Five pedal into a Mesa Express I pretty much find myself not needing amp modeling at all. So then, if all I really need is effects, AND the H9 can in reality give you multi effects, why not give it a try?

      Still I can totally see wanting two H9’s but that’s a serious First World Delemma!!!!

      Thanks for the help guys.

    • #159131
      apalazzolo
      Participant

      Once you become fluent with the H9 you’ll develop favorites and limitations will appear.  For example, if you fall in love with the Blackhole reverb and Tricerachorus chorus you’ll start to curse the H9 because, sure, Spacetime provides reverb and chorus but NOT THAT reverb with THAT chorus at the same time.

      That’s when it’s time to get a second H9 because then you’ll know the pedal (which takes some time).  Then a used H9 CORE at $250 or $300 is a huge bargain because you get the whole thing again for the cost of one other pedal.  Plus, there is no learning curve at that point.

      Keep an open mind and surprising things will appear.  For example, Resonator intimidated the hell out of me for a while because it had a Resonance knob and 4 Note knobs.  I learned to use those but more importantly I learned that none of them do anything if Resonance is set to zero.  It also means that with Resonance set to zero Resonator is a simple delay and reverb algo … and it’s a great one too.

       

       

    • #159136
      jimb0tr0nic
      Participant

      I agree that it’s a real complaint, but not a weakness of the device. To be clear: I still think it’s a bargain used for the H9 Max.


      @apalazzolo
      hit the nail on the head: at some point you want Blackhole and MicroPitch (or Band Delays or Harmadillo or Diatonic or …).  At that point you buy a standalone pedal, a factor pedal, or another H9.  As a former PF and TF user I knew I was basically starting there, but it’s still been worth it.

    • #163632
      apalazzolo
      Participant

      JavyMontoya …

      Search the manual for the term Hotswitch.  It is found in all Space algos (11 of them) and H9 algos (11 of them).   That and the exp ped can be very powerful tools for changing effects/sounds in real time.  The exp ped can morph between effects (within one algo) in real time. The Hotswitch can jump between effects (within one algo) in real time.  The changes can be either simple/subtle or quite dramatic.   See my list above for examples of the various effects within each of several algos.

      If you think about it, these features and the control app operate very similar to MIDI but within the H9.  Spinning knobs on the control app is like an intuitive way to program MIDI, but in the H9 you are programming the Hotswitch and/or exp ped instead of a MIDI controller.

    • #163633
      apalazzolo
      Participant

      JavyMontoya …

      Two points on MIDI integration:

      1. 30 of the H9 algos (the ones also found in the 3 Factor pedals) do not have Hotswitch capability.  BUT if you run MIDI you can get the same result using the ribbon controller (exp ped) as follows: Use the H9 control app to set up a preset with exp ped capability as desired.  Then, using MIDI set up a switch that toggles between 0 and 127 and direct that switch to control the exp ped control change parameter within the H9.  That MIDI footswitch will then act like a Hotswitch for algos that do not have a Hotswitch.

      2.  The H9 output level fader is not controllable in real time with either the Hotswitch or an exp ped.  Each H9 algo has 10 controllable parameters and the output level is NOT one.  I think that is unfortunate.  However, the output fader IS controllable via MIDI because there is a MIDI control change parameter for it in the H9.  Thus, using MIDI you CAN treat it as a secret 11th parameter.  Just tell one MIDI footswitch to control both the Hotswitch control change parameter and the output level control change parameter as the same time.

      Similarly, you can tell a MIDI exp ped to vary the exp ped control change parameter (that you already set up with the H9 control app) and the output level control change parameter at the same time.   This allows you to (for example) lean into the exp ped for a clean boosted solo and also blend in a delay or a chorus or both just for that solo.

       

       

      • #163634
        JavyMontoya
        Participant

        Thanks man! Digging in now.

    • #163667
      Bodde
      Participant

      “Plus, in 22 of the 52 algos, one can switch between the effect combinations (in real time with no glitch or lag) with a footswitch (called the Hotswitch).”

      can you explain? Not sure how to do this. Can you give an example?

      What I find limiting in the H9 is that you cannot go up and down in presets with footswitch the pedal itself.  Say you want switch from preset 11 to 12 for the chorus and then back to 11 for the second verse or so. This is very impractical to do on the pedal itself as far as I know. If someone has on idea how to this without a midi pedal or additional switch let me know! Switching on the unit itself is very cumbersome and slow

      It would be much more practical if you could switch up with the right footswitch and down with left. I don’t think this is possible?

    • #163669
      apalazzolo
      Participant

      Bodde

      You are correct.  You cannot set one H9 footswitch to scroll up and the other to scroll down.

      Also, you need at least one aux switch and/or an expression pedal to accomplish what I describe.  I too place a premium on simplicity, but there is so much jammed into the H9 I can’t complain if I have to add an aux switch or an expression pedal.  Options explode when you do this … including solving the volume pedal issue you have.

      Let’s start simple and say you add one $30 aux switch and link it to the hotswitch function of any Space or H9 algo.   The key to avoiding any lag is to stay within one preset.  In this example, I’ll use the Spacetime algo.

      For a verse, set up a preset with a simple slapback delay.  Then, program the hotswitch for reverb, but no delay, for a chorus.  Calling up that preset in the future starts the slapback, but also allows you to instantly toggle between the two effects with the aux switch.

      Too simple … tivial you say?

      For a verse, set up a preset with a chorus going dual delays set with the Fibonacci sequence for stereo ping pong .  Then, program the hotswitch for a Leslie with reverb on fast rotor (but no delay) for a chorus.  Calling up that preset in the future starts with the Fibonacci delay, but also allows you to instantly toggle between the two effects with the aux switch.

      Don’t like that?  Let’s try some others …  pick any one of the Spacetime factory presets for a verse.  Then program the hotswitch to match any of the other Spacetime factory presets for a chorus.  Now toggle between the two to your heart’s content.  Want to see how diverse that is?  Change your control app to the  “PEDAL VIEW” and watch the signal routing configurations change as you step through the various factory presets.  IMHO that’s pretty amazing and all we’ve added so far is one simple aux switch that costs about $30.

      Are you willing to spend $100?  Then get a Disaster Area MIDI BABY (with one footswitch) and you can execute three different functions with one tiny little box.  You could add a clean boost capability to anything mentioned above.   And, you could add that scroll down function you wanted too.

      Now add an expression pedal and you can add a third effect choice (still within that one preset):  verse = basic sound = heel down … chorus = different sound = toe down … bridge = hotswitch.

      Want to forever solve that volume pedal problem that vexes you?  Plug that expression pedal into the expression pedal 1/4″ jack on the MIDI BABY and link it to the output fader (or the input fader – your choice) control change midi parameter.   Done.

      There is no lag or glitch with any of this and we haven’t even left the SpaceTime algo yet.  There are 21 other algos that also have the hotswitch.  You can explore those too.

      No let’s say you want your favorite Spacetime preset for a verse and to switch to your favorite Tricerachorus preset for a chorus with no lag.  Can we do it?  No.  Not with one H9.  Sorry the options are many but they are not infinite.

      Good luck!

       

       

      • #163734
        Bodde
        Participant

        Bodde You are correct. You cannot set one H9 footswitch to scroll up and the other to scroll down. Also, you need at least one aux switch and/or an expression pedal to accomplish what I describe. I too place a premium on simplicity, but there is so much jammed into the H9 I can’t complain if I have to add an aux switch or an expression pedal. Options explode when you do this … including solving the volume pedal issue you have. Let’s start simple and say you add one $30 aux switch and link it to the hotswitch function of any Space or H9 algo. The key to avoiding any lag is to stay within one preset. In this example, I’ll use the Spacetime algo. For a verse, set up a preset with a simple slapback delay. Then, program the hotswitch for reverb, but no delay, for a chorus. Calling up that preset in the future starts the slapback, but also allows you to instantly toggle between the two effects with the aux switch. Too simple … tivial you say? For a verse, set up a preset with a chorus going dual delays set with the Fibonacci sequence for stereo ping pong . Then, program the hotswitch for a Leslie with reverb on fast rotor (but no delay) for a chorus. Calling up that preset in the future starts with the Fibonacci delay, but also allows you to instantly toggle between the two effects with the aux switch. Don’t like that? Let’s try some others … pick any one of the Spacetime factory presets for a verse. Then program the hotswitch to match any of the other Spacetime factory presets for a chorus. Now toggle between the two to your heart’s content. Want to see how diverse that is? Change your control app to the “PEDAL VIEW” and watch the signal routing configurations change as you step through the various factory presets. IMHO that’s pretty amazing and all we’ve added so far is one simple aux switch that costs about $30. Are you willing to spend $100? Then get a Disaster Area MIDI BABY (with one footswitch) and you can execute three different functions with one tiny little box. You could add a clean boost capability to anything mentioned above. And, you could add that scroll down function you wanted too. Now add an expression pedal and you can add a third effect choice (still within that one preset): verse = basic sound = heel down … chorus = different sound = toe down … bridge = hotswitch. Want to forever solve that volume pedal problem that vexes you? Plug that expression pedal into the expression pedal 1/4″ jack on the MIDI BABY and link it to the output fader (or the input fader – your choice) control change midi parameter. Done. There is no lag or glitch with any of this and we haven’t even left the SpaceTime algo yet. There are 21 other algos that also have the hotswitch. You can explore those too. No let’s say you want your favorite Spacetime preset for a verse and to switch to your favorite Tricerachorus preset for a chorus with no lag. Can we do it? No. Not with one H9. Sorry the options are many but they are not infinite. Good luck!

        Thanks. Really helpful!

    • #163823
      camn
      Participant

      +1 its not an issue. I have a separate reverb, though.

      My reverb pedal only does one thing at a time, too 🙂

Viewing 11 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.