H9 Pitchfuzz lag when switching via midi

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    • #114526
      mjunker
      Member

      Just tried out the the new PitchFuzz Algorithm and it’s amazing! However I experience quite a bit of noticeable lag (almost 1 sec) when switching presets via midi. This seems to be only the case with PitchFuzz and the effect kind of seems to fade in when switching instead of a “hard” effect switch. Has anybody experienced the same issue? I love the effect however this makes it hard to use…

    • #148014
      camn
      Participant

      I do not have that problem.

       

      Do you have the lag when switching via AUX or H9Control?

      And what MIDI controller are you using?

    • #148025
      mjunker
      Member

      I have the lag when switching via “Midi In” and I use the Tech21 Midi Mouse.

    • #148027
      camn
      Participant

      And do you have the lag when switching any OTHER way? Or just via MIDI?

    • #148049
      mjunker
      Member

      I just checked and I have the lag also if I switch via H9 Control or via AUX/Jack Pedal. What I noticed is that the effect drops out completely and then there’s kind of like a volume swell where the fuzz effect comes in. It’s definitely noticeable. I also tried to do a factory reset but that didn’t help either. Any ideas what could be the problem?

      • #148059
        brock
        Participant
        mjunker wrote:

        … the effect kind of seems to fade in when switching instead of a “hard” effect switch … What I noticed is that the effect drops out completely and then there’s kind of like a volume swell where the fuzz effect comes in …  Any ideas what could be the problem?

        I’ll take a stab at this one.  Assuming that you’re switching between supplied Factory Presets, there are large variations in Output Level, from preset to preset.  Around 18-20 dB (I believe), in some cases.

        PitchFuzz does not have the separate Compressor / Sustainer controls of the Sculpt / CrushStation algorithms, but it is from the same family lineage.  Program-dependent compression:

        H9 Sculpt / CrushStation Info wrote:
        … specially designed to vary the numerous parameters of a typical compressor such as the ratio, attack, release, and the makeup gain to keep the overall loudness consistent.

        My suggestion:

        • Figure out the exact Output Level that works best for your own setup.
        • Use H9 Control’s input and output meters (+ H9 Overload LED) for a strong, clean average signal thru.
        • Dial in that new Output Level in a few Factory Presets.
        • Rename & save them as User Presets.
        • Try switching between the new User Presets.

        You may still have to adjust the individual User Presets’ Output Levels a few dB, either way.  But that should give you a good idea of the “auto-level” compression action at various FUZZ parameter values.

    • #148067
      camn
      Participant

      So, I did some experimenting.

      Switching between presets that are ON my H9 already… I recorded the switchover to measure the gap, and I ran into something strange. There is really not much of an actual gap. 30, 40 ms…but there is, like.. a Fade out>>Fade In thing… maybe I am just hearing some clean signal? Lower volume. Maybe its a crossfade? It lasts longer.

      Going from a pitchFLEX patch to a pitchFUZZ patch:

      Bluetooth: 448ms

      MIDI: 424ms

      OnBoard: 430ms

      I imagine this is the gap you are referring to.. it is certainly noticable enough to be considered such.

       

      Going from a PitchFUZZ to a pitch FUZZ already on my pedal.. that fade-to-fade time is a little bit longer… 524ms using H9 control.

      Show More...

       What about pitchFUZZ patches NOT already on my pedal? Patches on my Ipad? Not really longer. 597ms using H9 control.

      I remember hearing that the PitchFuzz was particularly complex, and had longer load times because of that. I think if these are the gaps you are getting… 600ms… then probably you can’t do much better.

       

      Of course.. I am curious now. 

      Going from CRUSHSTATION to CRUSHSTATION algos gives me VERY similar numbers… with a similar behavious of an attenuated signal in between parcthes. 

      49ms of gap.. 500ms of fade-to-fade time

      What about something ELSE?

      Jumping between PITCHFACTOR algos.. hardly noticable at 25ms. No fade thing that I can tell.

       Modfactor? Even better.  13ms if that.

      I also dont hear it on the OTHER H9-class algos.. resonator/ultratap…etc.

       

       

      CONCLUSIONS!

      mjunker- your ears don’t lie. The pitchFuzz algo has a longer switch-over time than the others. Although I think the Crushstation is similar. They both do a crossfade thing which is what you are hearing, I bet.

      If your numbers are similar, I would say this is normal operation.. and you gotta work with it. . . unless they update the algos to address it. I, for one, never had trouble using it on stage. But I usually switch patches during rests. Even analog pedals. I don’t like the sound of a pedal engaing.

      I do have ONE lead using the pitchflex that I wanted to use dynamically… and I set up the Expression pedal to run the # of voices (PITCH AMT) from 0-3. So at first its just fuzz, no delay or anything.. and I fade in the voices.  Maybe you can work around the gap that way?

       

      Good Luck!

       

      c

       

       

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    • #148098
      mjunker
      Member

      Thanks everybody for their inputs. I will definitely try to mess around with the volume and see if this helps. I already kind of learned to work around it by switching a bit earlier which is no problem live, but for recordings it’s still noticeable.

    • #148182
      tunisoifer
      Participant

      I have the same problem. Eventide told me that lag is because the pitchfuzz algorithm is very complex (fuzz, octave, delay) and it can’t be resolved. If you find a solution please share it!

      • #148633
        nickrose
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        tunisoifer wrote:

        I have the same problem. Eventide told me that lag is because the pitchfuzz algorithm is very complex (fuzz, octave, delay) and it can't be resolved. If you find a solution please share it!

        Sorry – there is no possible solution that we can see.

        If you buy (say) a reverb box that has 6 different reverbs that are essentially different settings of the same thing, this will load very quickly.

        If you have a box that has very many large, complex and different algorithms, these will take a fraction of a second to load. Because you love the sounds, you will probably allow for this.

        One of the above is the H9.

         

        Show More...

         

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    • #148631
      EMGAFARE
      Member

      I’ve just bought an H9 and i enjoy it.. But i ‘ve the same issue with Pitch Fuzz Algo and it’s a pain in concert live so i can’t use it.

      Please help us!angel

    • #148636
      EMGAFARE
      Member

      Ok Thanks for the response, it’s pity but i’ ll try to use it in a another way, cause it’s sounds just like i want..

    • #148637
      llemtt
      Participant

      In live performing if you need to switch between algorithms in less than a second you should consider using two H9 with “next” algo preloaded.

      This is needed whatever effect unit you use, it’s not H9 related, including lots of powerful racks (I can’t say about Eventides because I don’t own those sad).

      Units that can switch seamlessly between complex algos, eventually managing trails, are essentially dual fx engines in a box…

       

    • #150188
      actioncamp
      Member

      I will chime in on this to offer an additional scenario I’m running into within the Pitchfuzz algorithm itself.

      If I make the hotswitch or an expression pedal just turn the pitch mix up or down (to engage and disengage the octave but keep the fuzz on) it still

      has a lag. confirmed via midi control that other algorithms like wah, modechoverb, etc where i change multiple parameters don’t have that lag time with the same midi expression pedal.

      I know it’s a heftier plugin but if Eventide staff ends up having the time/resources you might want to look at revising the code of Pitchfuzz as a target for the next update. I know it got a fairly quick overhaul between the Namm show and release so maybe something is choppy in there that could be improved. I’ve just gotten used to my transition a little early to compensate for the switch but obviously it’d be nicer if it could react in real time to really ride the delays and pitches with an expression input.

    • #156302
      mrspikesir
      Participant

      I know this is an old post, but I’ve just stumbled across it because I’ve had precisely this issue on both PitchFuzz and Harmadillo. And in my case, it does render both algo’s impossible to use in a live setting as each time I need to use any of those patches there’s such a noticeable lag that it means the guitar line ends up sounding sloppy, or even as if I’ve fluffed what I’m playing. Which isn’t something that helps keep the £££’s coming in …!

      So I was wondering if either Eventide had plans to make these algo’s a bit more useable, and/or does anyone have any workaround suggestions …? (I do have two H9’s on my board, but the second is generally used just for delays, reverbs, etc so will often be on at the same time as I’m trying to use the PitchFuzz and Harmadillo algo’s).

       

      Ta.

       

    • #156314
      bohan
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      PitchFuzz and Harmadillo are computationally heavy algorithms. They take more time to load. This is due to the hardware limitation. Sorry about that.

      We've thought about optimizing the loading time of these algorithms, but we would have to sacrifice algorithm functions that we don't want to lose.

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