H90 DynaFlanger(s) Program

[brock]

Let’s try something here, just for fun.  Two Instant Flanger presets, in parallel.  This Program is not subtle.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/44sx1835tfxloi4/MicMix Dynaflanger Pair.pgm90?raw=1

My Program Notes:

• It’s not perfect (no ENV Invert, different Delay ranges, analog components, etc.)
• Work in progress toward my Holy Grail of 2 sync’ed Dynaflangers, in stereo.
• In mono, with a single Preset instance:  Try Mode – Deep, followed by a compressor.
• Left Preset / Right Preset have inverted parameters, with differentiated variations per side.
• Left preset:  Lower frequency flange + 0.500 S ‘CV Decay’.
• Right Preset:  Higher frequency flange + 1.000 S ‘CV Decay’.
• Base settings for each:  Wide panning.  Manual + Envelope.  Out Gain – 6.0 dB for Feedback peaks.

External Control (optional):

• EXP 1 –  Left + Right Manual (Delay times @ opposite sweeps).  Pseudo-wah.
• AUX #5 – Left ENV Release – 0.500 S to 1.000 S
• AUX #4 – Right ENV Release – 1.000 S to 2.000 S

Onboard Control:

• Perform Page 1
• Tap = 120 BPM
• Preset A  = Act/Byp
• Preset B  = Act/Byp
• Perform Page 2
• HS1 = Source – Man + Env to Manual
• HS2 = Source – Man + Env to Envelope
• HS3 = Left ENV Release – 0.500 S to 1.000 S + Right ENV Release – 1.000 S to 2.000 S

Notes:

• Late night; from memory.  Not responsible for the the absolute accuracy of my verbal ramblings above.
• Money Back Guarantee on the Program, though.
• No extra change for crazy-ass panning acrobatics.
• Man + Env allows ‘tuning’ the envelope sweeps with an expression pedal.
• HotSwitch options for Manual (expression) only, or Envelope only.
• Historically accurate ENV Release times, but not Delay times or HP filter frequencies.

[brock]

Link problems?  Download here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/44sx1835tfxloi4/MicMix%20Dynaflanger%20Pair.pgm90?dl=0

[apalazzolo]

Thanks for sharing!  I like the fact that this gives me expression pedal control over when the big flanger-swoosh occurs.

[rck]

Help a brother out, how does one import a PGM90 File such as this? I see a list someone shared via email in my downloads as LST90 File and could import that list, but after downloading DynaFlanger(s) via the link above, I do not see it as option to import to H90 Control.

[brock]

I’ve been doing it by right-click – Import Program on any Bank (Program) location (left side), under the Parameters tab.  No doubt there are other ways.
<p style=”text-align: left;”>Win 11 & 1.2.2.  Might be a good FR for drag ‘n’ drop, like the H9 Control app.  Admittedly, I haven’t tried that, to see if it’s supported.  Might be problematic on where D’n’D would “land”, given all the Program / Preset locations, and multiple Lists.</p>

[apalazzolo]

Drag and drop IS supported!!!!

[rck]

Thank you very much for your help Brock and apalazzolo,

 

Drag and Drop for the WIN, oh yeah!

 

Thanks Brock for sharing the Program. Hopefully get to try it soon!

[rck]

Ah and I just figured out your process, Brock, very nice!

[zappi2233]

I am going to get my H90 by the end of this week. And I am really looking forward to this DynaFlanger Program. Viva Zappa! 🙂

[brock]

There’s a slightly updated version on PatchStorage (it might only be the Program Notes).  Actually, there are quite a few really good contributions, from a variety of H90 end users.  Some ‘zappa-esque’.

https://patchstorage.com/micmix-dynaflanger-pair/

 

[zappi2233]

Thank you! Anything zappa-esque is highly appreciated.

[nico___]

Hi brock, you think is possible to make some good controllable Through-Zero Flanger with h90?

[brock]

I tried something out at PatchStorage, but it’s a little bit out-of-control, in a way.  Heavily distorted, to accentuate the through-zero point.  I’m not done playing with the concept, but that Program has its (aggressive) place.

What I did was split bands with Sculpt, and put all the focus on the right channel of a Flanger [Type – Thru-0] instance.  You might be able to clean it up by dialing down the High Drive, and neutralizing Filter Pre / Post.  See what you think:

https://patchstorage.com/highly-negative-reaction/

EDIT: Oh, I forgot.  One of the HotSwitches is a clean alternate.

 

[nico___]

i update my version of TZF chek this one

 

https://patchstorage.com/tzf-themanwhostolethetone/

 

i have used 2 digital delay in parallel and with insert 1 in reverse polarity, i was developing this algorithm for Spin FV-1 too.

[zappi2233]

I got the H90 now and I just wanted to thank you one more time for your amazing Dynaflanger Preset. It just feels right. In a perfect world the H90 would allow to have 3 presets within one program which would make it possible to combine the Stereo Dynaflanger with a Q-Wah (Autowah)… I have a Quad Cortex which covers really a lot of ground, but it has no Autowah, but okay there are a lot of Autowah Pedals out there…

[brock]

Sure, man.  That is one powerful combination, zappi2233.  I thought surely Neural would have included a Mutron III-type model.

Yes, as programmed, an expression pedal will sweep those delay times in opposite directions.  It’ll get very ‘vocal’ around mid-sweep.

It’s my opinion that an expression pedal is the essential accessory for an H90.

[zappi2233]

Today I gonna try it with an expression pedal. One thing I noticed yesterday: It seems to me that there is a little loss of gain/volume going on when I use this preset. You wrote that in mono it is recommended to use a compressor after it. Maybe the same is true in stereo mode. So the compressor then has to come from another unit. In my case I run my Quad Cortex into the H90. So I will try it with a compressor before the Dynaflanger or just a gain block. Anyway it is a lovely sound. I saw Zappa 1988 live in Cologne. Those were the times 😉
Apart from the Dynaflanger I got the impression that the Flanger Program “Flyby” brings you close to Zappas sound. I am not in front of my H90, but I think the name is flyby or something like that. Or what do you think? For example in Yo mama you hear a flanger, but it is not the sound of your Dynaflanger. I think this flyby preset brings you close to that sound. Am I right?

At 2:08 you hear the kind of flanger I mean:

I think you hear this kind of flanger a lot in Zappas 80’s music. Sometimes distorted like in Yo Mama, sometimes more clean. And I got the impression that he is using a single coil pick up for this sound, but I could be wrong because his modified Strat had also humbuckers and all kind of eq on board. All I can say is that I love this sound. I love for example the clean sound in Any kind of pain, but I am not sure whether he is using a flanger in this one as well or if it is just a nice icepick in the forehead clean sound 😉

 

[zappi2233]

I am still learning the H90. So I think the gain less problem can be solved by just increasing the output gain in the dynaflanger preset, right?

[brock]

Boost gain as needed.  I often leave these highly resonant Programs on the low side.  The peaks can suddenly jump ‘into the red’, and cause problems.

I just try to come close to Zappa’s array of custom gear.  An important component is the Systech Harmonic Energizer.  Mine (the Overdrive version) is showing its age.  I’ve often considered the Godlyke Triskelion; just to see how close it comes to that unique vintage pedal.

One nice addition is sweeping the narrow center frequency with an expression pedal.  Something I always wanted to ‘hack’ into the original.

[zappi2233]

I have the Triskelion. I don’t use it much because I try to cover as much ground as possible with the H90 and the Quad Cortex, but if you are a Zappa Fan then you won’t regret to buy one I would say.

[zappi2233]

I will have a try with an expression pedal. Maybe no need for an autowah…

[zappi2233]

I got an expression pedal connected to the H90, but I don’t understand to which parameter I have to map the Exp1?
Here is a screenshot of the page where I guess I have to map the parameter to the Exp1, but I don’t understand/find this what you said:

EXP 1 –  Left + Right Manual (Delay times @ opposite sweeps).  Pseudo-wah.

[zappi2233]

OK, I think I got it. It is mapped to manual. Thank you!

[zappi2233]

Hi Brock,

have a listen to this at about 6:00:

Is this a flanger or a fixed wah or a phaser? What do you think?
Such a nice sound…

 

[brock]

That it is.  I’m listening on a crappy phone speaker now, so let me hear it later on over some FRFR.  Very vocal & guttural in some spots.  Clean input, too.

Off the top of my head, I’d say you could get there with any of those, but it’d have to be very specific, capable & targeted devices.

Maybe not ‘just’ a fixed wah.  There are a lot of deep, crossing resonances sweeping through vocal formant territory.

If I had to venture a guess right now, a phaser AND a flanger (and perhaps a wah tossed in, as well).  Or two flangers.

The trick is to get the delays / phase all moving with one source (pedal), and crossing over each other.  Sort of how the Vocal mode in Q-Wah works.

[zappi2233]

Thank you, Brock. Based on your advice I made a Program with the Tricera Chorus and the Q-Wah in fowel mode. It’s open for improvement 🙂 What is missing maybe is a certain glassy quality which can sometimes be heard in Zappas Clean Sounds, like in Any kind of pain, but I think it has not always to be more glassy. I tried also to combine the Q-Wah with a stronger Faser, but maybe the Q-Wah is already enough to have a certain movement/modulation going on.
The input should be just a nice clean sound. I think this should work with Single Coils Neck or Brigde Pickup, or Humbucker Neck or Bridge Pickup. I wouldn’t use an out of phase Pickup Combination like Neck and Middle on that, because the Q-Wah brings at least to my ears already enough “out of phase” Quality…

And now Shut up an play yer guitar 😉

Well, this is such a complex topic how Zappa constructed his clean sounds. For example he combined on his guitar sometimes a piezo pickup with a hum bucker or single coil or whatever. But I don’t have that. And I think we have enough options with the H90 to come close to it. A lot of his dirty sound can be emulated easier then the clean sounds, because you just need a standard marshal distortion sound and before the amp a half cocked wah which goes into a fuzz. The thing is that the sound shouldn’t be to nasal. But it is not so complicated to get there. On top of that you can use the Triskelion, but without the triskelion you can get that sound pretty much as well. I use in the Quad Cortex the Bad Horsie Wah for that in a fixed position at about 50 percent. Well, this just as a sidenote. As I said the his high gain tones are easier to get than his clean tones. His amazing clean tones are like a lifelong obsession for me 🙂

 

[zappi2233]

I was trying to upload the Program I made, but I doesn’t work. I don’t know why. Or have I got to reach a certain credibility level in the forum in order to be allowed to upload attachments?

[zappi2233]

I don’t know how this works here, but the Program can now be found on patchstorage:
https://patchstorage.com/zappa-elastic-clean/

 

[brock]

Nothing to do with credibility; I don’t believe the file types allow for patch uploads here at the forum.  I’ve linked to DropBox in the past.

But you’ve already jumped on my next suggestion.  PatchStorage has become the grassroots place for sharing H90 Programs & Presets.  There are some cool, knowledgeable people there to kick around ideas with.  And quite a variety of approaches to H90 design.

[zappi2233]

I had a GAS Attack and ordered the Meris Polymoon, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t like your Dynaflanger. I like it a lot. Today I was trying to recreate the Shut up n play yer guitar Tone from Frank Zappa and I used your Preset in Mono with Mode “Deep” on the other side I placed a compressor (I am still searching for the best compressor settings for a compressor which sits behind the Dynaflanger). Anyway I used a distorted guitar tone and oh my god I heard at the same time the kind of Hawai Guitar Detune Effect and the Jetlike Flanging and the Flanging sounded like as if the Flanger was kind of crying. That was really beautiful. No, I didn’t take any drugs 🙂 It was just so nice 🙂

[brock]

I have successfully resisted the PolyMoon GAS, from when it was first launched.  It looks / sounds like a very capable unit.  But lately, I’ve been all about wringing everything I can out of what I have already.  But your purchase did inspire another thought, though.  I haven’t tried this one out yet, but here it is:

There is a great sounding stereo phaser in TriceraChorus: Swirl.  Although it’s not barberpole, Swirl might add a nice ‘vocal’ quality alongside the DynaFlanger Preset.  I don’t believe I’ve ever tested Swirl – triggered solely by the envelope – but now that is something on my to-do list.  I know that Instant Phaser || Instant Phaser make for a great pairing.

[zappi2233]

 

This sounds like a good idea. Can you recommend any of the above EQ Programs of the H90 to place it after your Dynaflanger Preset? It is really a challenge to find the right mix between wet and dry signal and to maintain a direct pick attack when using the Dynaflanger. I don’t have the Polymoon under my hands yet because it is on a pedalboard which gets an update by a friend of mine, but it would be funny if at the end of the day your Dynaflanger Presets wins the competiton. It is better than the Quantum and the Bubble Tron Pedal for sure and offers much more detailed control so the only Pedal which remains a serious challenger is the Meris Polymoon. We will see… 😉 Why can we never be satisfied with what we have? One more time – I think you did a great job on recreating the Dynaflanger.

AcousticElec Balls Basonex BassPre2 BassPre3 BassPre4 BassyBass Bootyshaker
Bright
DiscoGuit DubBass
Flat EQ
FunkGuit
Fuzz Conditioning JCM to Metal JazGuitar
Leo to Les
Les to Leo Mountain1 ParkedWah PaulsBass1 PaulsBass2 SM58Enhancer SlapBass1

[brock]

Trying my best to not sound like an audio corksniffer here, but …

I don’t use Factory Programs / Presets.  Absolutely nothing wrong with them.  I have always preferred to dial in from scratch.  Even with the H90, I zero everything out first, and then start there.

And I don’t use much EQ.  It destroys phase telationships.  Small cuts; rarely boosts.  If you’re looking toward Systech Energizer territory, you need 4X or 5X the maximum boost found in EQ Comp.

With parametrics like that, I would start with 12 dB boost, the narrowest* Width, and dial around the Frequency until I find my ‘sweet spot’.  Then dial down that 12 dB boost to the least amount I can get away with.

[Counterintuitively, the narrowest Width appears to be 10 now in the H90, and 1 as the widest bandwidth.]

You could also use the Low Cut in the DynaFlanger Preset(s), and see if that helps the focus.  As I recall, I used two wildly different settings.

The compressor in EQ Comp is an ‘auto-level’ type.  Again, it performs well enough as designed, and it’s handy in many cases.  But you won’t have the control over pick attack (and every other comp parameter) that you might like to have.

This would be a whole other thread topic, but of all the Eventide compressor offerings, the best one is the OmniPressor [or Decay OFF in DynaVerb].

One final thought on wet / dry balance.  Have you considered keeping your Presets wet (or mostly wet), and dialing down the 100% Mix at the Program level?

That’s what I end up doing the majority of the time now.  Get both Presets balanced against each other, the fold in just the right amount of input signal.  Parallel ‘compression-style’.

[zappi2233]

OK, so now I have some homework to do. And about the wet-dry balance: I always use your Dynaflanger on Program Level with the Mix at 50 Percent otherwise it gets too “wet”, but I have to experiment more with the compression settings because I noticed that they have a very huge impact on the sound. I also use or used other Dynflanger Pedals with only 50 Percent wet. Maybe I should look one more time how Van Halen dialed in some of their iconic Faser Tones because they seem to have a perfect balance of a strong faser effect while maintaining a punchy and strong guitar tone.

[zappi2233]

Here is a little Soundclip with your Dynaflanger in Mono. Excuse me for the noodling, but sound wise I like this combination of a Clean Sound with your Preset pretty much. I am still working on finding the right wet/dry balance and compressor settings to combine your Preset with a Distortion Sound…

https://soundcloud.com/joachim-gartz/dynaflanger-clean?si=33b245cf803f4cee927cb279a42cdd91&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

 

[zappi2233]

It has at the same time a certain vocal quality and the “crying” jet flanger 😉
A have spend a lot of time to get this pretty balanced sound. I have also fooled around with a wah to get more of a vocal quality – especially when using a distorted sound, but I never nailed it. But I am working on it.

[zappi2233]

Quick and Dirty Example of Dynaflanger with more Distortion

https://soundcloud.com/joachim-gartz/dynaflanger-dirt?si=14c7084800064439960630aead4cfe32&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

[brock]

Not sure why, but I couldn’t access the Soundcloud clips (at work).  But I’ll assign a little more ‘homework’ on the distortion front.

I’m guessing your distortion is coming from the Quad Cortex.  Most H9/H90 users favor external distortions; often analog.  My go-to is a (digital) S/A MultiWave, or Trash 2 ITB.  But as a test, see what happens when you use one of the H90 distortion algos.

I’d lean toward something like Sculpt, as you can split the bands out in stereo.  Dial in some minimal Low & High Drive.  Find your Crossover Frequency ‘sweet spot’.  The pre- & post-filters make a convincing wah, mapped to an expression pedal.  Or you can use them parked, or triggered by the envelope follower.  And you have access to a compressor.

CrushStation is another one to try, for a parked wah sound.  It has some similar (but not identical) features to Sculpt.  My mantra is to cycle through the algorithm types to see what you can exploit, as each one brings a different feature set to the table.

[zappi2233]

Thank you, very instructive information. I hope you can access the sound clips at home? I am not a big tweaker, but I will try to learn. It is not the end of the world if I can not make the Dynaflanger with a Wah Pedal. I am not sure if I really like that sound so much. Maybe there are other ways to give it just a little bit more of a vocal quality. We also have to differentiate between using an expression pedal connected to the H90 or connected to the Quad Cortex. I would say just as a sidenote Zappa himself was using just an analog Wah Pedal in front of everything else, but this doesn’t mean that you maybe can get even nicer results when you connect the expression pedal only to the H90 to controll certain parameters of the Dynflanger. Anyway I want to hear the Jet Flanging and for this it seems to me that you need a fair amount of high frequencies, but this means that you have not much bandwidth left in order to sweep with a Wah from lower to higher frequencies. So that is the point where I am running against a will and give up with the whah pedal.

[brock]

Well, Zappa also tuned his onboard EQ to each venue, with a truckload of amps, and racks of cutting-edge & custom effects, so you’re not going to get quite there without winning the Lottery.  And roadies.

As for tweaking, you can’t so anything wrong in the H90.  Find something close, make a copy, and start turning the knobs on the copy.  If you screw something up beyond recovery, back up and start over again.  Save your incremental accomplishments.  Create an entirely separate PlayList for just DynaFlanger experiments.

For ‘vocal’, the most important thing (in this kind of application) is having two very resonant, very short delays, and having some method of getting them to cross over each other.  Could be an expression pedal, envelope follower, LFO, sequencer, HotKnob …

The vocal quality happens in-between.  That’s the reasoning behind the original Program.  Nearly inverted parameters on each Preset ‘side’, then sweeping those delay time values in opposite directions.

[zappi2233]

Now I have as you suggested Sculpt behind the Dynaflanger. Thank you for your advice. I guess that’s it for today. With these settings I am able to use the Wah (just connected to the Quad Cortex). It has enough sweeping range to sing to a certain degree.

https://soundcloud.com/joachim-gartz/dynaflanger-sculpt?si=cabbcce67e4e4c898b7744dffd4ada31&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

[zappi2233]

I have made peace with myself for the time being with the following settings 😉

[zappi2233]

Just as a little sidenote here is a question I asked various people and the answer I got from a technician from Meris Pedals:
So what is the best option in order to recreate what Frank Zappa did on his Shut up and play yer Guitar Album? Bonus Question: How exactly did it Frank Zappa when he recorded Shut up…? (What you find about it in terms of Zappa Quotes, the nice but not very concrete Zappa Gear Book etc. is only fragmentary information.)

The basic signal chain that Frank used according to Dweezil should be like this:

Guitar goes into Wah Pedal then the signal goes into:
-> Amp 1 -> Out 1
– >Amp 2 -> Out 2
-> DI Signal -> Out 1 and/or Out 2?

Now we have a couple of options:
1.1: Dynaflanger on one Stereo Channel
-> Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
– >Amp 2 -> Out 2
1.2: Dynaflanger on two Stereo Channels
-> Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
– >Amp 2 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 2

2.1: Dynaflanger on One Stereo Channel + Phaser
-> Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
– >Amp 2 -> Phaser -> Out 2

2.2: Dynaflanger on two Stereo Channels + Phaser
-> Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
– >Amp 2 -> Phaser -> Dynaflanger -> Out 2

3.1: Dynaflanger on One Stereo Channel + Phaser + Wah
3.1.1
Wah-> Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
Wah- >Amp 2 -> Phaser -> Out 2

3.1.2
Wah-> Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
Amp 2 -> Phaser -> Out 2

3.1.2
Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
Wah->Amp 2 -> Phaser -> Out 2

3.2: Dynaflanger on two Stereo Channels + Phaser + Wah
3.2.1
Wah-> Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
Wah – >Amp 2 -> Phaser -> Dynaflanger -> Out 2

3.2.2
Wah-> Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
Amp 2 -> Phaser -> Dynaflanger -> Out 2

3.3.3
Amp 1 -> Dynaflanger -> Out 1
Wah – >Amp 2 -> Phaser -> Dynaflanger -> Out 2

So these are the routing options I see. Apart from that it remains unclear for me what happens with the DI Signal? Should it go into Out 1 or Out 2 or in both Channels of a Stereo Setup? I only know that Dweezil stresses the point that it was important for his father to add a DI Signal for more pick attack clarity.

ANSWER FROM MERIS:

I would start with any of those setups in the 2.1 or 3.1 channel. It sounds like certain effects are being turned off and on throughout the record (Shut up n play yer guitar) (including wah and phaser). For the DI track, you may consider recording that in the center. This way you have the stereo amp setup with per-side effects, and the center with a little DI signal mixed in for clarity. Of course this is all suggestion, I recommend exploring and trying out different pedal arrangements for whatever gets you closest to that sound.

[brock]

Sounds like some good advice, all around.  Concise, with an extra helping of option paralysis.

Now I’m going to toss a giant wrinkle into your list of possibilities and overall process:

• The Quad Cortex is upstream, I assume.
• H90 Insert Mode – using Input / Output 1 & 2.
• Dry input centered and accessed at the Program level.
• The original MicMix DynaFlanger Pair Program (as programmed, in parallel) – each Preset stereo to both outputs.
• Meris PolyMoon as a stereo insert – H90 Input / Output 3 & 4.
• PolyMoon programming & insert placement in the H90 – your choice for best results.
• Modify everything (IF needed), for wah, distortion, dynamic flanger, phasers – best sounding combination.

[zappi2233]

Option paralysis rules 😉 I will have to wait 4 weeks until I get my hands on the Polymoon. Then we will see if I can marry the Polymoon with the H90. I will definitely have the Polymoon exactly as you said as a stereo insert H90 Input / Output 3 & 4. It’s really great that the H90 offers this possibility. Wait, I will go one step further – I will have a Mastermind PCBX6 Switcher as a stereo insert in the H90 Input / Output 3 & 4. The switcher will have 3 Stereo Loops and  the Switcher can receive and deliver a Stereo Signal. In the Stereo Loops will sit the Quantum and the Polymoon and god knows who else. I will use the Quantum as an 80s Stereo Chorus with all knobs on 12, not as a Dynamic Flanger because your Preset does this better and we will see how the Polymoon will perform. I will keep you updated. As a sidetone: The more I use the H90, the more I like it. I am still struggling to understand very basic things about compressors and eqs, but I have this obsession that I want to use one guitar for everything. The problem was that my PRS Fiore has a neck single coil and sometimes you want that fat sound of a humbucker. So I was googling and feeling pretty lost and then I stumbled upon a Preset in the H90 which does this pretty well. It is called “Leo to Les”. There is also a “Les to Leo” Preset, but I think it is more difficult to simulate a Strat on a Humbucker Guitar, that is why I have the Fiore with Neck and Middle Single Coil and Bridge Humbucker – very nice! So one should think that I am almost done, right? But you always find something new. I guess that is human nature. I am still looking to emulate Guitar Feedback with the H90 and in the long run I want to get rid of as much pedals as possible except the H90.

[zappi2233]

I got one question: I am trying to fake a guitar feedback. I haven’t seen anything in this direction on Patchstorage. So I try my best. See the screenshot above. Is it possible to delay the time until the effect becomes active? Because as we all know the higher octave does not ring immediately with a pick stroke. It fades in after a certain time, but I don’t know how to do that.

[brock]

zappi2233 wrote:

I got one question: I am trying to fake a guitar feedback. I haven’t seen anything in this direction on Patchstorage. So I try my best. See the screenshot above. Is it possible to delay the time until the effect becomes active? Because as we all know the higher octave does not ring immediately with a pick stroke. It fades in after a certain time, but I don’t know how to do that.

I’m working on that one; accounting for the various feedback harmonics.  The intent will be to mirror something like the Digitech FreqOut.

But there are a couple options at PatchStorage for a head start, with a couple of options.  As mentioned in another post, Approaching A-Pogee needs the DynaVerb Threshold lowered to ~ 36 dB (+/-), to translate well across all systems.  That OmniPressor will be your delayed onset for feedback.

Slow Gear Delay Panner takes another approach, using TremoloPan as the delaying offset.  That’s not a bad idea to try HotSawz as the ‘feedbacker’.  You can try swapping out HotSawz for the HeadSpace Preset in that Program.

[zappi2233]

I don’t understand completely the descriptions of Approaching… and Slow Gear…, but I have downloaded them and will check them out. And I am really looking forward to your Freqout Simulation. I have a real Love and Hate Relationship with this pedal. I know it is not important, but this pedal is so god dam ugly. And it always starts in Bypass Mode you have to manually activate it – that’s annoying. Apart from that I have to admit that in the right hands it can do some nice things, but I could imagine that a Feedback Simulation on the H90 could give you much more controll. I mean Mucho controll 🙂

[zappi2233]

When you are really making a Feedback Simulator for the H90 which is really great news then I would recommend you as a little inspiration the following two song for very nice use of a Feedback Effect. (If you don’t already know them.)
First Joe Satrianis Flying in a Blue Dream. The intro with the Feedback tone is magical. I think he is playing a lower C note and you hear as feedback the octave, the fifth (G) and maybe also I am not sure the second (D). I tried this with the freqout, but never got really satisfying results. So this is one of the most iconic examples of a diatonic feedback.
Second Frank Zappas Zoot Allures. Very interesting because here we have the combination of a rather Clean Tone (out of phase Neck+Middle Pickup would be my guess) with Feedback. I tried that with the freqout playing the fifth as feedback and it doesn’t nail it perfectly, but let’s say anyway what you get is pretty pleasing to the ear. My ears are not so trained so my guess would be that for the Zoot Allures Feedback tones the fifth is involved, whereas the octave not so much and I think it is more a mixture of a diatonic and a non diatonic natural feedback.

 

[zappi2233]

You wrote:

As mentioned in another post, Approaching A-Pogeeneeds the DynaVerb Threshold lowered to ~ 36 dB (+/-), to translate well across all systems.  That OmniPressor will be your delayed onset for feedback.

Slow Gear Delay Panner takes another approach, using TremoloPan as the delaying offset.  That’s not a bad idea to try HotSawz as the ‘feedbacker’.  You can try swapping out HotSawz for the HeadSpace Preset in that Program.

So I tried “Approaching…” and “Slow Gear…” I lowered the threshold on approaching. So far so good, but in both programs it seems to me that the effect comes immediately, so it doesn’t behave like a feedback which fades in after a certain amount of time. And in Slow Gear I changed headspace into Hot Sawz, but again it doesn’t fade in like a feedback. But maybe I should stop at this point and just wait until you are done with your feedback simulation…

[zappi2233]

Recently after all these years hunting the best Feedback Emulation I got myself an Ebow. and what can I say – for the Flying in a Blue Dream Intro it sounds very nice. I always thought the Ebow is a psychedelic gimmick, 🙂 but it really sounds nice and it feels very nice to really feel the vibrating strings. The problem is only that it takes too much time to change from the Ebow to the Pick and vice versa during a typical guitar solo. So for me the scenarios where you can use it at least for me are limited to very slow intros. So I am still looking forward to your H90 Feedback Emulation…

[zappi2233]

In the meantime I also got the Meris Polymoon and it sounds very good. The Dynaflanger sounds at least as good as your H90 Dynflanger Preset, but it is a pain in the ass to use the Polymoon Knobs which all have a secondary function which gets quite confusing.

[zappi2233]

When you are working on a H90 Feedback Emulation and if you have an E-Guitar then I would strongly recommend you to get yourself an Ebow as a reference. It has really a very pleasing to the ear sound. This one has the same features as the Original Ebow, but you can more easily the button to change from sustain to harmonics. So I would recommend this one:

https://www.thomann.de/de/joyo_jge_01_e_bow.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQjwn_OlBhDhARIsAG2y6zPCbgQir-tEnjz84XasdaaAJJgpNJWwki-UcbIdHOpZfyG3Mt7QHl8aAuYnEALw_wcB

 

[brock]

zappi2233 wrote:

When you are working on a H90 Feedback Emulation and if you have an E-Guitar then I would strongly recommend you to get yourself an Ebow as a reference. It has really a very pleasing to the ear sound. This one has the same features as the Original Ebow, but you can more easily the button to change from sustain to harmonics …

Hard to believe, but my 1st original model Ebow is still going strong.  The chrome plating is all chipped up, and it sports a repaired 9V clip, thanks to an actual phone conversation (!) with the inventor, Greg Heet.

I ordered that one direct from Heet Sound, and since have purchased 2 more of the other 3 releases.  And I really don’t think that the price has increased one cent over all those years.

Yes, there is specialized technique involved, especially with the hot spots and string crossovers.  I usually concede to timing one or the other, regarding Ebow to pick and back.  I never have completely mastered tucking a pick behind the Ebow.  Way too much going on already.

The original model came with a belt holster of sorts.  I doubt the new ones still do.  It’s too tight for ‘quick draw’ use as designed, but it works attached to a nearby mic stand or keyboard.

Good news about the PolyMoon sound results.  Bad news is I haven’t done anything more with the feedback emulation to date.  My focus has been hijacked by some other PatchStorage projects that turned out to be very involved.

[zappi2233]

This is just a little brainstorming because I think after being obsessed with the Dynaflanger my next obsession is a nice feedback emulation:
You need a sinus wave to emulate feedback. I think not Hot Sawzs, but Synthonizer on the H90 can generate a sinus wave.
Normally you got the sinus generator first in chain and then you apply distortion to it.
Just as a side not in my signal chain the H90 is the last device before the signal goes to my Audio Interface, but maybe this is not a complete show stopper. Or if you see it in a positive way if the signal is already distorted and you can combine only two effects on the H90 you don’t need to use the second effect for distortion, but rather for delay or something which makes sure that the effect really fades in slowly. Well, you know what I mean. Something like if you were using a volume pedal or an Auto Swell Effect or however you want to call it.
Could this maybe be done with the Blackhole or another Delay Effect on the H90? If yes, what would be the basic settings? The Synthonizer seems to be able to produce also the octave above the tone which in my opinion is the most fail save feedback tone because it is always diatonic. At the same time Feedback is almost every time associated with a certain degree of dissonance caused by the following harmonics. So it would be nice if it would be possible to fad in the fifth harmonic towards the end of the feedback effect, but I don’t know if this is possible with the Synthonizer or if there is another workaround to avoid that the Feedback gets to clean.
The big exception is Flying in a blue dream where you really want a very diatonic feedback with almost no dissonance at all, but normally as I said you want a little bit more dirt – you know what I mean. I don’t know if you have ever heard of the Mojo Roller Effect on the Zoom Multistomp. I don’t have this device, but the other day I stumbled upon a description of this effect. In simple terms it means that a tone gets in his decay phase a certain amount of vibrato. I think it would be great if the Synthonizer would be able to emulate this to a certain degree, but if you look on the parameter list above it seems that there is no vibrato parameter…
So what do you think? Have I described correctly the necessary elements in order to make the ultimate feedback emulation on the H90? I have to admit that I have only a very superficial understanding of those things, but sometimes you have to take the challenge right?

Synthonizer¶
Synthonizer tracks the pitch of the note that you’re playing and generates a synthesized tone at the same pitch. Voice A is an additive synthesizer useful for creating organ or Theremin-style sounds; Voice B is a subtractive synthesizer for creating classic analog-style synth sounds.

Mix: Wet/dry mixer, 100% is all wet signal.
Vox Mix: Controls the ratio of the two synthesized voices A and B.
Wave Mix A: Controls the mix of the various added waveforms to control the tone and perceived pitch of voice A.
Octave B: Controls the blend between unison, 1 octave down, and 1 octave up synth voices to control the tone and perceived pitch of voice B.
Attack A: Controls the attack time for synthesized voice A.
Attack B: Controls the attack time for the filter on synthesized voice B.
Verb Level: Sets the reverb level.
Verb Decay: Sets the reverb decay time.
Shape A: Selects voice A waveshape:

Sine
Triangle
Sawtooth
Organ 1
Organ 2
Sweep B: Controls the sweepable filter on voice B. Values from 0 to 50 sweep a low-pass filter, values from 50 to 100 sweep a high-pass filter.
Performance Parameters
Flex: Shifts both voices up one octave.
Factory Presets
Bassic Synth
FluteFactor
Motorbike Lead
TromboneFactor
Welcome To The Machine

[zappi2233]

After a lot of searching I finally have found what might be completely obvious for others. Anyway Ultratap has a very nice Swell Preset. You see it on the left side. So for a nice Feedback Effect now the question remains what kind of tonal synth element one has to put on the right side to fake overtones/harmonics which normally are kind of sinus waves. I have tried Synthonizer and HotSawz but nothing really nailed it. Do you have some advice?

[brock]

Try 100% wet intervals using Polyphony, PolyFlex or a clean Pitchfuzz.

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