H90 in the loops of 2 amps at the same time ?

[Graeme777]

Apologies for coming to the forum with this, but I’m struggling a bit and I figure someone here will have the same issue or a better idea than me.

I’m running the H90 in the effects loop of two amps. Signal is split before the amps inputs and runs from the guitar into the front of both amps.Then both effects loops are running into the H90 (one into Input one and out of Output one, and the other into Input 2 and out of Output 2) before running back to the amps.

The problem is that I’m getting gain/drive transfer across the channels, so the gain characteristics of one amp are leaking into the other (whichever is higher gain at the time). I can mitigate this effect a little by setting the routing to dual mode and running only one effect each side, but I’d rather have true stereo that maintains the drive characteristics of the individual amps.

Anyone got any ideas? I feel like there must be a clever way to route this that will solve it. Thanks in advance.

[joecozzi]

Hi Graeme777,

Running stereo in a setup where both amps have different settings or drive structures is not recommended. I understand many users wish to layer the sound of two amps live to sound better but whenever you introduce tonal disparities at the output (the speaker), the image ceases to truly be optimal for stereo audio. Think of listening to a mix in a studio but one monitor is setup with a different frequency response; we just don’t do that.

As you may have discovered, some algorithms mix or combine the signal of both sides to do what they do. In your setup, this forcibly mixes the preamp sections of each amp before processing. That’s what you’re hearing.

The only idea I have involves using amp modeling, where you can place the H90, or any effects, post cabinets after a mixer that combines the signal of both amps. Then, that connects to FOH. Many people do this. It’s like putting effects after you’ve recorded your guitar. The key thing to understand is that the signal from both amps was already mixed together before processing. That’s the only way to avoid the problem you’re encountering.

[Graeme777]

Thanks Joe,

As you say, different algorithms do it to a greater or lesser extent. It’s the gain transfer between the amps that’s most annoying.. turn one amp up and they both get louder.. makes balancing them a pain.Could there be a way to turn off signal mixing globally? I’m running wet/dry/wet with 3 different amps. Subtle differences in gain staging sound great in stereo if it’s done carefully.

I was hoping it could be done with inserts somehow, or with both available effects on parallel channels, but I guess that would need twice the processing power.

I wondered about another H90, one in each loop with one slaved to the other via midi, but I’m sure there’d be inconsistencies that wouldn’t sound good.

I was running this same system with 4 factor pedals previously and didn’t seem to have this problem, did they have independent channel processing or did I just not notice?

None of this is critical, I love the unit and I can always put the H90 in front of the amps or just run one amp clean and let the drive section of the other colour both, just trying to explore how this might be done without blending the amps together before processing.

 

[Rezzy777]

Hi Joe,

I recently bought two Tonex One’s with the same idea as above.

What is the best way to connect these two to the H90 for stereo sound?

I currently have it set up like this:

• Guitar output > H90 input 1
• H90 output 1+2 > Tonex One 1 + 2 inputs
• Tonex One 1 + 2 outputs > H90 input 3 + 4
• H90 output 3 + 4 > Walrus Canvas Stereo

As far as I know I am not having any drive/volume problems so far (not sure).

Do you think this is a properly working set up or should I try this instead:

• Guitar output > H90 input 1
• H90 output 1 + 2 > Tonex One 1 + 2 inputs
• Tonex One 1 + 2 outputs > Walrus Canvas Stereo

Or maybe you have a totally different idea?

Hope to hear from you, many thanks in advance!

Peter

[tbskoglund]

Hi Peter,

Either of your proposed setups should be fine.

In your first setup, you need to use Dual Mode, which will allow you to put either of the H90’s presets before or after the Tonex.

The second setup would be used with Insert Mode, and this would allow you to use additional pedals in the H90’s insert paths using I/O 3-4. You could try using the Walrus Canvas Stereo as a stereo insert instead of after the outputs of the Tonex, or you could try using the Tonex as an insert as well.

There are many options to experiment with and find out what works best for you setup. My best suggestion is to try different setups and see what you like.

 

[Rezzy777]

Hi tbskoglund,

 

Thank you for your reply!

So the point Joe Cozzi is making above

‘Running stereo in a setup where both amps have different settings or drive structures is not recommended’

does somehow not apply to my setup? Just trying to wrap my head around this 😉

If I understand your reply correctly, you mentioned I can connect the OUTPUT of my Walrus to the INPUTS of my H90?
But isn’t the Walrus supposed to be put at the end of the signal chain because of its XLR’s?

Truly sorry, this is all quite new to me.

 

Thanks again!

Peter

[tbskoglund]

Sorry, I didn’t realize that was a DI box, I thought it was an effects processor. You should use that at the end of your chain as described in the first setup.

The best practice would be using identical or very similar settings on both Tonex pedals to achieve a good stereo image.

[tbskoglund]

You could also just use 1 Tonex as an insert in the H90’s path and the H90 will give you a good stereo image without using 2 amp modeler pedals.

[Rezzy777]

I bought two packs from Worship Tutorials for my two Tonex Ones: one pack from a Matchless amp and one from a Marshall amp.
I want to use these two simultaneously (one amp for the left channel, the other amp for the right channel) to create a great stereo sound.

Do you think these two amps are similar enough so I don’t get any problems with the H90?
Or do you mean I should just use the same amp for both Tonex One’s? That would really defeat the whole purpose of buying two Tonex One’s 😀

[Rezzy777]

What are the actual problems I could run into when I would use two amps which are NOT similar enough?
Do you think the H90 would make a mess of its effects?

[tbskoglund]

You will not have a “true” stereo image since both the left and right side will sound different.

Joe describes the issue in his first comment:

Running stereo in a setup where both amps have different settings or drive structures is not recommended. I understand many users wish to layer the sound of two amps live to sound better but whenever you introduce tonal disparities at the output (the speaker), the image ceases to truly be optimal for stereo audio. Think of listening to a mix in a studio but one monitor is setup with a different frequency response; we just don’t do that.

You could try it, and if you like how it sounds, then use it that way.

[Rezzy777]

Somehow my last reply wasn’t posted, but thanks tbskoglund!

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