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July 26, 2012 at 8:28 pm #108977coirbidh_99Participant
Since the question of a dedicated Eventide looping pedal has come up a time or two, I thought it might be fun to discuss features that the posters here might like to see in such a mythical beast. Assume for the sake of argument that all of the features currently present in the TimeFactor loop algorithm (pitch shift, change start/end point, etc.) are already included. What else would you like to see? Here's my list:
-Undo last overdub
-More loop time (30 seconds at least)
-Multiply, similar to the EDP feature: press a button to start multiplying the loop, and the same button again to stop. This would allow you to record a one-measure loop, multiply it out to four measures, and then overdub a four-measure phrase on top of it. Bonus points for a menu option that switches between "rounded" (final loop must be a whole-number multiple of the original loop length) and "unrounded" (final loop length is arbitrary, including loops shorter than the original loop) Multiply states.
-Three-button on-board transport identical to the TimeFactor's, with easy programming options for auxiliary footswitches (up to 3 buttons, like the existing Factors) to control additional commands such as Reverse and Multiply.
-Good MIDI time implementation in both master and slave states.
July 27, 2012 at 6:13 am #123673underwoodMember
I would like to have two loops that can run in sync and switch/fade between them. Storage of the loops on SD card so it is possible to edit them on pc or put drumtracks on it
July 27, 2012 at 12:37 pm #123674Jerra.SParticipant
The ability to cut out snippets of an existing loop with two presses of a switch and to have that snippet loop for itself.
July 27, 2012 at 1:58 pm #123675coirbidh_99Participant
Jerra, are you thinking of this in some way that's different from the "unrounded" version of Multiply that I described? Just trying to clarify if this is a different feature or a different way of wording the same feature.
July 27, 2012 at 3:30 pm #134727Jerra.SParticipant
I remember when I had an EDP years ago it had a feature called Loop Windowing which originally had been a bug. It then became an "official" feature. If e,g, there had been a loop of 8 sec a "window" within this loop could be defined by pressing a switch to define the startpoint of the the "window" and then by pressing it again to define the endpoint of it – so there had been a new but shorter loop which contained material of the original loop. This new loop could either be looped, overdubbed, etc or the so defined LoopWindow could be moved forward and backwards through the original loop. A very creative technique.
July 27, 2012 at 4:00 pm #134728underwoodMember
The Roland SP-555 has this feature to. You can also finetune this "window" with two pots after you set start and endpoint with a switch.
July 28, 2012 at 6:53 am #123678Jerra.SParticipant
– more than only 1 undo / redo step
– stereo looping
– smooth transitions between loop endings/starts for ambient lloops.
July 30, 2012 at 1:11 pm #123680diegoartsMember
– stereo looping for sure!
– min. 1 minute loop time
– no minimal loop time (0 sec. to 60 sec.): great for effects and kind of "freeze" sounds.
– 2 tracks with independent loop times – more complex rhythmic loops possible.
– NO effects apart from maybe a small pre-loop delay.
July 30, 2012 at 2:20 pm #134731coirbidh_99Participant
OK, I think we're largely thinking of the same sort of feature here, then. I never used the Windowing feature very much when I had an EDP, but I've become very fond of Andre LaFosse's uses of it in his "turntablist" approach to looping.
July 30, 2012 at 2:21 pm #123681coirbidh_99Participant
The existing TF looper algorithm lets you end a recording directly into overdubbing – is that what you had in mind, or did you want an option to turn off a crossfade to make that transition smoother?
July 30, 2012 at 3:43 pm #134733Jerra.SParticipant
If I e.g. record a drone with a e-Bow there is a slight audible artifact at the point where the loopborders meet. They should fade into each other seamlessly.
July 30, 2012 at 6:41 pm #123686HarMember
I don't have TF so not familiar with its existing looping features, but if I'm in total wish-list mode I'd like to see:
– at least 24-bit stereo looping.
– mutiple stereo loop tracks that can be BPM-sync'd to each other or not, independently toggled on and off, have independent volume levels, pan, forward/reverse playback, etc.
– very long stereo loop times available per individual loop, expandable memory via SD cards, to allow for creation of evolving soundscapes and textures (example: the Digitech Stereo JamMan's maximum length of a single loop is 10 stereo minutes. For some people doing phrase style looping that's an insanely long amount of time that they think nobody would ever really need, while others like myself doing live ambient soundscaping have maxed that out and wished for more…LOL).
– different "stop mode" functions such as Immediate, Run To End of Current Loop, and a Fade-Out mode with settable fade down time (either arbitrary, or as a percentage of the existing loop length e.g. fade out completely over the entire length of the current loop, 50% of the current loop's length, etc); I like jerra.s' idea of smooth cross-fading of loops for ambient soundscaping.
– tap-tempo combined with that awesome Eventide quality pitch-shifting, to allow for clean adjustments of tempo/time-stretching on the fly without going all kinds of Darth Vader or Mickey Mouse too quickly (as well as the option to do exactly that as well if desired ). I'm kinda visualizing a hardware version of what Ableton Live can do on the fly with multiple loops with software.
– the option to easily pre-assign a BPM and bar-length to a new empty loop slot via a value knob (by comparison, the Digitech JamMan Stereo only allows you to pre-determine BPM for a new empty loop via tap-tempo). This would work great for when stacking multiple effect units sharing the same BPM (and that might not have MIDI clock) and want to keep your audio loop sync'd to everything else i.e. delays, etc.
– along with that BPM option: both a visible flashing LED to the beat and an audible click that could go out to a separate headphone out without going to the main stereo outputs.
– MIDI control of BPM along with all the usual stuff of course, to work in conjunction with the tap-tempo/pitch-shift idea above.
– here's a total wish-list crazy one: some kind of multi-point envelope control of volume levels and pitch over time per loop track. For example, the ability for a very long loop to decrease its pitch slowly across the duration of the loop's length, or for on-the-beat fade-in/fade-out/gate/panning effects as the loop plays back. So, more creative options for weirdos like me.
– Loop or Single-Shot playback options.
– Easy transfer of stored loops to/from computer via USB.
August 2, 2012 at 10:56 pm #123702brockParticipant
… and we want all of the above at a $500.00 price point.
There are a lot of good suggestions here. I keep thinking that some of the hardware requirements for the multiple stereo loops, long loop times, undo, and such would push the costs somewhere between the Stompbox and Eclipse classes.
The poor or nonexistent MIDI implementation turns me off from a lot of hardware loopers. I can understand a delay following a MIDI-locked device might get away with tap tempo or a millisecond equivalent, but a looper? Sync drift is OK, if that's what you're going for, but my rig is a tad too complicated for "almost rock-solid".
Har mentioned this above, and I'd like to add the usual stellar MIDI control over the various functions of the pedal. Nothing irritates me more than having to buy a proprietary switch / pedal component to get full use out of an effect device. Something like this SuperLooper is going to need a lot of footswitches, and external MIDI control is the "cheap" and logical way to implement it. Aux switch inputs don't hurt, but …
Har also mentioned the Eventide-class pitch-shifting and tempo stretching. I say to take this a step further, and you'd really have a unique entry into the field. Diatonic "smart" harmonizing locked to key and scale on the loops. QuadraVox on steroids. The PitchFactor already provides for some unique looping effects near 100% Feedback (or feedback under expression pedal control). The limitations are the single stereo "loop", the 2 second maximum delay, and a lack of many of the standard looper functions.
So, take a PitchFactor (or four Pitchfactors), add maybe 4X-8X the DSP processing, and 10X-15X the available RAM, sprinkle in some select looper functions, try to keep it under $2000.00, hope like hell that the economy turns around, and hope it takes NAMM by storm.
August 3, 2012 at 7:45 am #123703Jerra.SParticipant
thinks about the features of a loopfactor has his / her individual needs in
mind. Having played around with the
looper of the TF for some time it gets clear that the loop-features of the TF
plus reverse / undo/redo / multiply / longer loop time / stereo / midi would be perfect. But these need always depend on the
way of looping. I e.g. would never need the ability of saving loops. That is
against my philosophy of playing. But that’s only me. I don't think that that would be significantly more expensive than the other factors
August 17, 2012 at 3:21 pm #123747ImerkatMember
– Programmable Glitch Effect ala Ableton Live Compatible thrid partty controllers like Source Audio Hot Hand and Dual Expression Pedal…. I can dream can't I!
September 2, 2012 at 5:53 pm #123771NikosGuitarMember
A FripperTornics please…
-Robert fripp+David Torn…
September 8, 2012 at 8:35 pm #123805NikosGuitarMember
The cats at Eventide are the only ones that can make us THE looper that will kill them:
…with much more…
September 10, 2012 at 12:03 pm #134844NikosGuitarMember
OK,get serious now!…
please ask mr.David Torn to join you(Eventide engineers)and to discuss about a "serious" looping machine:http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=647870&page=3
and then,make a youtube instruction video with mr.Alan Chaput demonstrating this device with mr.David Torn: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=647870&page=4
This,not only give us(loop fanatics!)an amazing loopfactor!
BUT will raise the interest of buyers too!
October 11, 2012 at 1:29 am #123881starscapeMember
Imho, before anything else, a decent looper needs to have FEEDBACK (or DECAY or whatever you want to call it), controlable either via Exp.Pedal or by two preset levels between which you can toggle (like: 100% – 70%). Without the possibility to let looped material (slowly) decay while you either just play or overdub new material, a looping device is pretty useless and un-musical to me.
+1 for MULTIPLY as written above.
UNDO – yes, but MORE than last overdub…all the way back to the first loop
Looptime should be at least 1 minute (please,…the EDP had 200sec mono @ 16/44.1 with only 16mb of RAM!)
Real time pitch shift and time stretch
at least 2 parallel stereo tracks (with the option to work independently or synced
for now… 😉
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