Home › Forums › Products › Eurorack Modules › Mislabeled Third and Sixth Chord Inversion Labeling on Misha v1.1.2
Tagged: 1.1.2, chord, Chord Section, Chords, inversion, Misha, Mislabeled, Sixth, Third
- This topic has 4 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 4 months, 2 weeks ago by dostudios.
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July 26, 2024 at 8:52 pm #184031dostudiosParticipant
Dear Eventide Support,
I just purchased Misha a few days ago and have updated its firmware to the current version of 1.1.2. Currently, I have been trying to wrap my head around all the awesome functions you all have programmed in to this wonderful eurorack device.
So far, I am loving Misha. I noticed a miss labeling of two of the CHORD functions options.
Here is the detail of the issue.
If the Scale is set to C Major and the CHORD option is set to THIRD the following triad is created
C A C
This is a sixth and not a third as one might expect.
If the Scale is set to C Major and the CHORD option is set to SIXTH the following triad is created
C E C
This is a third and not a sixth as one might expect.
This apprears to effect every scale in the same manner, so if you want to use a Major Third Chord you need to select the SIXTH inversion CHORD and if you want a SIXTH you need to select the THIRD inversion CHORD. (this could be isolated to my unit or the current firmware. But, I suspect it’s a product wide issue.)
Hopefully, this information helps improve the product for others. I will include images to show you what I am refering to. Please advise if there is a way to add new or modifiy Chord Inversions as this would be a very nice feature if its currently not available. At any rate thanks for a great product, I’ll try and pay more attention and let you know if I notice any other issues.
Thomas
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July 29, 2024 at 1:11 am #184055dostudiosParticipant
Dear Support and users,
After reviewing the manual more in depth I started to realize what might be happening with this issue. On page 31 of the Misha User Guide v1.1 it states the following:
Chords
A chord on Misha consists of up to 3 notes sounded simultaneously when a single
button is pressed. A chord may be as simple as one note plus the same note one octave
lower plus the same note two octaves lower. Or, two instances of the same note plus
one of another note. Of course, a chord can also be a chord such as a triad- the present
pitch plus a note two steps down, and a third note four steps lower. This is akin to
playing a piano with the fingers fixed like the teeth of a rake.Misha sends the three pitches simultaneously via MIDI, and also one through each of
the three CV Out’s.Below is the format for the 9 chords pre-installed in Misha. The first item in the list is the
top (“lead”) note in relation to the button pressed- always 0 here- and then each
subsequent number represents the interval (relative) move from the lead note.
The default chords are:Chord #/Button | Chord Name | Chord Structure | Notes Used (Assuming we are in the Key of C Major)
1 /-4 | Octaves | {0,-1 octave,-2 octaves} | C4 | C3 | C2
2 /-3 | Third | {0,-2, 0} | C4 | A3 | C4
3 /-2 | Sixth | {0,-5, 0} | C4 | E3 | C4
4 /-1 | Triad | {0,-2,-4} | C4 | A3 | F3
5 / 0 | Triad 2 | {0,-3,-5} | C4 | F3 | D3
6 / +1 | Triad 3 | {0,-2,-5} | C4 | A3 | G3
7 / +2 | Jazz | {0,-3,-9} | C4 | G3 | A2
8 / +3 | Copland | {0,-6,-12} | C4 | D3 | E2
9 / +4 | Wide | {0,-11,-22} | C4 | F3 | B2The moment I read the following:
“Of course, a chord can also be a chord such as a triad – the present
pitch plus a note two steps down, and a third note four steps lower. ”I said really?
For some reason the Chord Section is built off the idea chords are created by added notes in intervals lower than the root note seems odd to me. In the music theory I have studied, chords are built off of the root note and adding notes going up the scale. The logic in the manual and Misha is rather building a chord off the root note and adding notes lower than the root note. Which makes no sense to me because now the home (root) note its no longer the root note. (unless we are talking about Chord inversions which is just where the notes reside relative to the root note).
I wrote up some recommendations to update Chord Section if your interested as it would make Misha much more useful in the Chord Section catagory and make Misha more congruent with current western music theory.
Base the Chord section of a root note and two addtional notes above the root note and add an inversion function to each chord structure you’ll want at least three inversions
Lowest note first:
First inversion is Root, Third, Fifth.
Second inversion is Third, Root, Fifth.
Third inversion is Fifth, Root, Third.It would be amazing if you could treat this like you treat the modes of scales so that each Chord option would also include up to three Chord Inversions for each Chord option.
Here is my recommended changes to the existing Chord Structures you currently have and updated to have the chords built off the Root note as mentioned above.
Chord #/Button | Chord Name | Chord Structure | Notes Used | Musical Theory Chord Name*
1 /-4 | Octaves | {0,-1 octave,+1 octaves} | C4 | C3 | C5 | Octaves
2 /-3 | Third | {0,+2, +1 octaves} | C4 | E4 | C5 | Major Third
3 /-2 | Sixth | {0,+5, +1 octaves} | C4 | A4 | C5 | Major (natural) Sixth
4 /-1 | Triad | {0,+2,+4} | C4 | E4 | G4 | Major Triad
5 / 0 | Triad 2 | {-5, 0,+4} | E3 | C4 | G4 | Major Triad 2st Inversion
6 / +1 | Triad 3 | {-3, 0,+2} | G3 | C4 | E4 | Major Triad 3st Inversion
7 / +2 | Jazz | {-9,0,+4} | A2 | C4 | G5 | Major 6th 3st Inversion
8 / +3 | Copland | {-7,+1,+9} | C3 | D4 | E5 | Major Suspended 2nd
9 / +4 | Wide | {0,+3,+6} | C4 | F4 | B4 | Major Suspended 4th add 9thAlso if there is a way to edit these Chords would be a extremely useful as well as having a function to invert the chords would be epic.
Thanks for your attention an time reviewing this info and if you would like help programming this or updating the info require I am more than happy to contribute.
Hopefully this helps,
Thomas -
July 29, 2024 at 4:18 am #184056dostudiosParticipant
This is related to the discussion above. So I’ll add a note about it here.
In testing some more, I wanted to let you all know that I noticed a issue between what is produced via Midi vs CV as in the pitch is different.
Using the C Major scale and using the Chord option of Sixth the device states the notes are the following:
C E C
I’m assuing that would be C on CV1. E on CV2 and C on CV3
Via Midi I get the following notes produced:
E2 and C3 so there aren’t three notes transmitted via Midi only 2 of the three notes. And here that E is in the bass ideally we would have a C in the bass as well.
When I tested the CV outputs to a synth I get the following:
CV1 = C3
CV2 = E2
CV3 = C3Hope this info helps with the discussion about the chordal aspects of Misha,
Thomas
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July 29, 2024 at 3:50 pm #184066
Hello
Thanks for your feedback, and I’m glad you found some explanations in the user manual
I can understand why it seems strange to build chords down from the top note instead of up from the root, as is standard. We’ve gotten this comment from others as well. I guess the idea is that the Misha is playing a melody and the chord tones are accompanying it. (Hence the chord tones being below it and at a lower MIDI velocity)
Regarding the 3rd and 6th chords- these are really two note “chords”. The reason a 3rd note is coming from the CV out 3 is that we wanted all the outputs to be doing something at all times, rather than go silent and cause the user to worry that their equipment was broken.
Anyway, user-defined chords is definitely a feature we would love to see – we hope to add it in a future update.
Anyway thanks for your thoughts- posting here really helps keep the idea in the forefront of our minds. So we appreciate your taking the time to post
Leon
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July 30, 2024 at 10:09 pm #184084dostudiosParticipant
Thank you Leon for the repy, I agree with user-defined chords being a future update.
Cheers,
Thomas
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