New SPACE, Tempo not steady ? infos needed :)

[O2LAMJU]

Hi Eventiders !

I just bought today an eventide SPACE. wooooow nice sounding and upcoming adventures 🙂

i’m french so i ‘ll try my best 😉

1. When Tempo is “On”, both “TAP” (right switch) and “Tempo” Leds behave synchronously between themeselves BUT

Problem :  the visual flashing led’s tempo vary, shifting time (sooner) each about … 8 to 20 clicks. Even when it doesn’t “slide tempo” (during the 8 to 20 clicks before shift) i don’t even feel a steady connection between “visual” click timing and “real” FX delay absolute time. this occurs in standalone mode, without any midi plug, i didn’t test with external stuff yet!!!!

is there some parameters i missed ? should i return my space to the store ? will they all be like that (noooot possible…) ?

 

2. in my SPACE’s system mode/Utility/SW VER i read 5.2.0[6] this is last version ?

SPACE is (bluely) referenced on right panel at https://www.eventideaudio.com/support/downloads/release-notes-v540

but 5.4.0 is exclusively for H9 ?

 

Thank you

[O2LAMJU]

Hi again ! no solutions to my problems…. a new reccurent one :

i tried to use H9 Control (on win 7 64b/ usb 2 connected) and when it works i like it, but after some time (or operations, i don’t know cause i can’t trigger the bug intentionnaly) a “communication error” occurs and stops link with Space.

here is the message :

[bohan]

O2LAMJU wrote:

1. When Tempo is "On", both "TAP" (right switch) and "Tempo" LEDs behave synchronously between themselves BUT Problem: the visual flashing led's tempo varies, shifting time (sooner) each about … 8 to 20 clicks. Even when it doesn't "slide tempo" (during the 8 to 20 clicks before shift) I don't even feel a steady connection between "visual" click timing and "real" FX delay absolute time. this occurs in standalone mode, without any midi plug, I didn't test with external stuff yet!

2. in my SPACE's system mode/Utility/SW VER I read 5.2.0[6] this is the last version? 

3. I tried to use H9 Control (on win 7 64b/ USB 2 connected) and when it works I like it, but after some time (or operations, I don't know cause I can't trigger the bug intentionally) a "communication error" occurs and stops link with Space.

Bonjour.

1. The "visual" click timing and "real" FX delay absolute time are not necessary to be same. In TEMPO mode, DELAY or PRE-DELAY parameter is displayed as a note-based rhythmic subdivision of the TEMPO value, varying from 1/64 to whole note. So it depends on the DELAY's value and doesn't have to be same as the visual click timing.

2. You can use H9 Control to update the firmware of your SPACE. Just go to Pedal Settings can click Update Stompbox's Software.

3. The communication errors happen due to various reasons. It could be your USB connection, or some other USB device interferes with it. Please let us know if you can reproduce this issue, otherwise, we can hardly tell what's wrong.

Merci.

[O2LAMJU]

Bonsoir and thank you for answering, that’s much appreciated. Vous parlez français ?

1. i already know what you explain. now i fear i was first far too complicated to be clearly understood… i retry : my problem on the space is that the visual click, when tempo is “on”, doesn’t behave like a steady tempo. a tempo is basically regular interval clicks and i suppose the visual leds do represent the tempo you choose in bpm. but on my space, “visual led clicks” are not regular intervals, it sometimes shift and fall around the 1/8th then shift back… should i get it back to store ?

2. when i arrive in eventide direct updater (v1.7) from H9 control, 1 device is detected but called “unknown”. when i “install update” an error occur (unit is not updateable). you can see screenshots attached. is 5.2.0[6] the last version for space ?

3 yes the issue is self-reproductible H9 Control always goes down this way. i haven’t any problems with my usb gear in général on my system (midi controller, mpc, keyboards, midi converter, loopstation etc…) i naturally have tried un plugging them, verifying all usb power supply parameters in windows to give usb max ressources. i even checked with usbdeview to see if everything was ok. it seems i’ve done all i could at that point. any further advice ? troubleshooting tricks or protocol ?

Merci beaucoup

[bohan]

O2LAMJU wrote:

1. my problem on the space is that the visual click, when the tempo is "on", doesn't behave like a steady tempo. a tempo is basically regular interval clicks and i suppose the visual leds do represent the tempo you choose in bpm. but on my space, "visual led clicks" are not regular intervals, it sometimes shifts and falls around the 1/8th then shift back.

2. is 5.2.0[6] the last version for space?

3 yes the issue is self-reproductible H9 Control always goes down this way.

1. Does your Space have this issue when you unplug all MIDI and USE devices and cables? Make sure your Space's MIDICLK IN setting is set to OFF.

2. Yes, 5.2.0[6] the latest version for Space.

3. Please take some screenshots and show us where the communication error happens. Please restore Space's system settings by powering up while simultaneously pressing the Right Footswitch and the Encoder until [CLEAR SETUP] is displayed, and try to connect to H9 Control again.

[O2LAMJU]

Thank You 🙂

1.it happens with midi unplugged, all options understood and set up and yes, with midi in and out off.

2.good to know i wish i could try for first issue

3.i’m gonna try now 😉

 

[O2LAMJU]

3. I made the “CLEAR SETUP” power-on, launched updater through H9 Control (for which i didn’t test -over time- the connection at that point).

when i arrived in updater, my Sp-14061 was retrieved (Step 1installing issue 3. Step1.JPG), i tried to see info on update but it didn’t manage to load an info page (step 3installing issue 3. Step3 no info on update .JPG) ,

then i “install update” it ask for backup pedal presets, i choose a file, ok then an error comes (Step 4installing issue 3. Step4 loop error preset data unsaveable.JPG) and ask for “Clear setup”… ??? i just did it before, why ?

so i did the same “clear setup” again (don’t think, be a computer lol) and relaunched “search for devices” and “install update”

this time all did well (saving presets & lond update transfer and install) !!! good

But… when i look into space’s system menu / Sw version i still see 5.2.0[6]

and there’s nothing like a 5.4.0 in eventide direct updater software menu

why ? 🙁

could you send me the file so i can try “update from file” ?

and i still don’t understand why i can’t have info when i click the round (i) in updater, it tries to connect but can’t (attached step 5installing issue 3. Step5 error connecting.JPG) is this why i don’t see 5.4.0 as available ? connection problem ? do you force a particular browser (i use firefox and i am web-connected when trying) to see info on update when a new page pop-up ?

[nickrose]

The latest version for Space is 5.2.0[6].

Later versions are only for H9, mainly for new algorithm support.

 

[O2LAMJU]

ok thank you !

The lasting problem is tempo visual click unsteady behaviour… nothing to do or suggest for fixing ? i go back to store and try another one for an exchange ?

[bohan]

O2LAMJU wrote:

The lasting problem is tempo visual click unsteady behaviour… nothing to do or suggest for fixing ? i go back to store and try another one for an exchange ?

We haven't heard from other users reporting this kind of issue so we don't know what happened to your Space. You may go back to the store and try another one, and see if it behaves different from yours.

[bohan]

O2LAMJU wrote:

The lasting problem is tempo visual click unsteady behaviour… nothing to do or suggest for fixing ? i go back to store and try another one for an exchange ?

If you are going to exchange it, make sure you have deregistered the Space. You can do it in H9 Control by going to "Pedal Settings" and click "Deregister Stompbox".

[O2LAMJU]

Ok thank you bohan !!! i would have forgotten to do so…

[O2LAMJU]

OMG… i love your sounds but things seems to be complicated before (perhaps) going easy.

i exchanged my space in store (very near serial number) and the problems seem the same.

1. visual tempo is sometimes shifting one 8th (not only, sometimes it’s a more groovy fourth 16th or third 8th triplet). To be sure i even verified using a DB88 steady metronome. no doubts. i tried changing current source but it’s all the same.

2. i can’t usb connect to h9 control (i still don’t even try midi connections with these problems)

it says device not found and doesn’t recognize my space as connected.

it says “retrieved 0 eventide devices” in eventide direct updater.

i verified with a good old program (Usbdeview) and the space is well recognized there as a USB composite device (normal it was the same with the precedent one.)

i tried a Clear setup but nothing changed.

sincerely i feel a bit tired about your hard/soft/wares issues.

Is this a bad serie for frenchies ? i guess not 😉 bad joke

 

[bohan]

O2LAMJU wrote:

1. visual tempo is sometimes shifting one 8th (not only, sometimes it's a more groovy fourth 16th or third 8th triplet). To be sure i even verified using a DB88 steady metronome. no doubts. i tried changing current source but it's all the same.

2. i can't usb connect to h9 control (i still don't even try midi connections with these problems)

I checked the Tempo LED on a Space we have. It is not perfectly stable as you described. So it is a LED bug (You are the first user who found this issue. Thank you for telling us and I'm sorry about that), but it doesn't affect the sound. It is possible to be fixed during a future firmware update.

For the USB connection problem, there are many reasons could possibly cause the communication error. Normally it's not because of the pedal. I don't think it's your Space's problem, because the last Space you returned also had communication errors. Please try to use another USB cable, or try another PC/Mac. If it still shows communication error, please try to repower your Space and open H9 Control again. If the computer and USB cable are all right, H9 Control should be able to recognize and connect to your Space automatically. 

[O2LAMJU]

thank you for your fast answer Bohan !

1. Noooo really ??? no one had seen that ? well if it are sure it can be fixed in a future firmware update… i’ll keep the space with me (and i’m thinking about taking a H9 😉 ) i’d like to know soon if you are sure the issue is solvable with firmware, cause after a short time i won’t be able to change my space (yes visual tempo synchro is needed for my use). Thanks for consideration and i’m looking forward to hearing from you

2. for the connection i already tested with another usb port. the only thing that helpedand solved was uninstalling space device in device manager in audio/video/game controllers section. after that i reconnected with usb the space and it could be recognized by the H9 control. YES 🙂

[bohan]

O2LAMJU wrote:

1. If you are sure it can be fixed in a future firmware update, I'll keep the space with me (and I'm thinking about taking an H9). I'd like to know soon if you are sure the issue is solvable with firmware, cause after a short time I won't be able to change my space (yes visual tempo synchro is needed for my use).

If visual tempo synchronization is very important to you, I would recommend H9 in this case. The problem on Space is fixable but I can't guarantee how soon we can fix it. It might take some time because our engineers have to get their current projects done first. And unlike H9, there won't be any new algorithm for Space, so we won't update Space's firmware very often. 

H9 Max has all the algorithms of Space. If you love Space's sound, you can get them from H9 as well. 

[O2LAMJU]

Haha Bohan, thanks for promoting H9 🙂

i’d like to somehow know an order of magnitude for the Space firmware update concerning visual tempo (2months-6months-1year? cause “very often” is not actually factual)

I really understand you have set engineer’s priorities (commercial-aimed) to algorithm’s adding on the current goose that lays golden eggs (H9).

I feel so proud to have flushed an anomaly on this good old Space. So if you send me an H9, i would gratefully accept it 😉 but i’d like to keep Space for its direct control knobs, providing visual tempo is fixed. by the way i’m interessed by Timefactor to replace my delay, do you know (did you test) if visual click is steady on Timefactor (metronome long time test is less eye stressing than visual concentration for testing) ??? Timefactor would be second step in my pedalboard renewal.

unless you foresee to create a tiny usb device for H9 with 9-11 control knobs (with very tiny lcds for parameter’s display? multi H9stompboxes control with serial midi connection ?) i won’t replace Space with H9. i see H9 as a swiss knife, an FX protean source, but H9 needs a lot of upstream work to be useful, whereas you can get fast results with a knobs-controlled dedicated device. I would use an H9 as a substitute of Mod/Pitch factor, well… one day, i hope 🙂

thank you

[bohan]

O2LAMJU wrote:

I'd like to somehow know an order of magnitude for the Space firmware update concerning visual tempo (2months-6months-1year? cause "very often" is not actually factual)

By the way, I'm interested in Timefactor to replace my delay, do you know (did you test) if the visual click is steady on Timefactor (metronome long time test is less eye stressing than visual concentration for testing)?

I'm sorry for disappointing you. It is the LED's problem which doesn't affect the sound so we don't think it is an urgent bug. I really can't guarantee when or whether it will be fixed. I said it seems a fixable issue, but if it is the hardware's problem, then it's impossible for us to fix it through a software update. I hope you can understand. We are glad you like our sound but I feel sorry that this LED problem bothers you. 

As for TimeFactor, I just tested it. It doesn't have the LED issue. I'm not sure whether you would agree with me though. You better test it in a store in person.

[camn]

O2LAMJU wrote:

Timefactor would be second step in my pedalboard renewal.

If the TimeFactor LED is stable..you could set it up as your clock master… and tape over the LED on the Space. Use the Timefactor LED to visually sync.

Or.. any other MIDI gear, if you have it or want to add it. 

[O2LAMJU]

well i use a mpc1000 sometimes (synced perfectly with sonar daw) and before throwing back (hum) the space to my pedal shop i wanted to try syncing the space to see if it at leasdt work synced as a slave.

Only one midi cable from mpc midi out to space midi in, i’ve set up space to midi in “on”, i tried with or without midi clock filter, with or without global tempo, nothing works. What am i supposed to do ?

On mpc i disabled all other sync in/out option, then activated OUT B (to Space) as “Clock” (and not Timecode) with a 30 framerate (well i also tried with other framerate)

i also tried with Cakewalk Sonar (as master naturally), nothing works.

eventide says visual tempo is not important cause it doesn’t change the sound… well for a 520€ reverb pedal i hoped to have a full functionnal gear,

but if i can’t even sync it with my midi gear and daw how can i have a precise sound ?

i found someone had the same problem but no one from eventide even tried to answer https://www.eventideaudio.com/community/forum/stompboxes/space-and-midi-clockexternal-tap

(and please don’t tell me “buy a timefactor” to have fully functionnal “space”)

i hope again i’m missing something

[O2LAMJU]

i found that you can’t use usb and midi connections at the same time for clock midi in function. so you can’t use h9 control if you want to sync with midi cable in connection (i didn’t find any option to choose if clock midi in comes from midi cable or usb)

New problem using usb connection exclusively, i can’t use Cakewalk Sonar and H9 Control at the same time. so :

1 i can use sonar and space but when i launch H9 control an error message “error connecting device” says it is “unable to open the midi in port for the eventide device ‘space pedal'”…device not found !

2 i can use H9 Control and space pedal but when i launch sonar and try to activate space pedal device in MIdi/device/  an error message named “midi device failure” and space pedal remains unactivated.

I imagine i’m missing something once again because i bet everything has been properly done to be able to use H9 Control during daw session with space pedal.

i would appreciate some help from knowers 🙂

[O2LAMJU]

i’d really like to keep my space, but as seen on this screenshot, If Space is activated in Sonar it is not recognized by H9Control.JPG

and if i launch H9Control before Sonar, Space is not activable in Sonar…

Mayday ! help ! j’ai besoin d’une réponse rapidement, s’il vous plait !

[gkellum]

O2LAMJU wrote:

i'd really like to keep my space, but as seen on this screenshot, If Space is activated in Sonar it is not recognized by H9Control.JPG

and if i launch H9Control before Sonar, Space is not activable in Sonar…

Well, that's a problem with the Windows OS.  Only one device can use a particular MIDI device at a time.  Once one device opens a MIDI device, it looks out all other devices from being able to use that device.

What version of Windows do you have?  In Windows 10 there's a new MIDI API that makes it possible for multiple apps to use a MIDI device.  We've been meaning to add support for it but haven't done so yet.  If you're using Windows 10, we might be able to fix this problem for you in a future release.

[O2LAMJU]

i’m on win 7 x64 and solutions seem to exist but i couldn’t get them to work. for example i couldn’t have an answer from him, but he seems to have worked further than everyone on the multiclient usbdevice win issue :  http://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/usbmididriver.html

it would be wonderful if you could develop a solution (inspired by his work ?)

RME audio cards, e. g., did go to develop their own firewire drivers because they had problems with microsoft’s, it then worked better than other firms and after they always got their interface more user-friendly. everyone talks satisfied about their work and they keep growing. i hope Eventide can evolve widely and steadily. H9 control and its programmed link to H9 are a good beginning but needs so much improvement imao.

by the way, i got my space back to the store and bought an H9 max. i still have many little problems but i don’t have time now for writing. i’ll be back 😉

thank you !

[Given To Fly]

Not to make a “mountain out of a molehill,” but I noticed the lop-sided LED blinking on the Space too. I thought it was related to algorithms that have two delay times like DualVerb or the reverb timing simply “catching up” after switching presets. I never perceived it as a problem and also thought it was a “feature” I missed. It also crossed my mind that summing the two separate delay times into the visual beat of the Tempo LED is the kind of thing Eventide might do. I can live with it. 

[Author]

Posts