Noise – Stacking Eventide effects…

[thehafe]

Hey all, thanks for checking my question out.

I've recently purchased an Eventide Timefactor and I love it.  It's the best delay I've ever used.  I do, however, notice a slight (bittersweet) change in my tone since using the TF.

For the record, I have my TF set up as DSP+DLY.  I've also experimented to great lengths between BYPASS and DSP+DLY.  Also, for the purpose of clarity, I'll only be talking about guitar signal with the delay effect bypassed, and I won't mention straight DSP mode (as I have no interest in it).

What I've noticed is that while the TF is bypassed in DSP+DLY, my tone is somewhat brighter and clearer than in BYPASS mode.  NO COMPLAINTS THERE!!!  (and to Eventide's credit, the BYPASS tone is indeed true bypass, with no noticable tone difference whatsoever)  Please read on…

In addition to the "brightness/increased clarity" that I'm hearing, I also hear an ever-so-faint "hiss" noise while bypassed in DSP+DLY mode (no hiss in BYPASS).  I've come to terms with this minimal "hiss," as it's not noticeable in a live setting, where I spend most of my time.  (…and also because the effect tone blows most other delays out of the water!)

My real question is this:

I plan on purchasing the Eventide Space in the foreseeable future, and I'm concerned that the "hiss" from the TF will combine with the expected "hiss" from the Space, thus producing a louder, more obvious "hissing" noise.

Can anyone using multiple Eventide pedals together (preferably someone who's also noticed this "hiss" noise) comment on whether or not the "hiss" noise stacks up noticeably?

Thanks!

[timothyhill]

I use all 3 factor pedals at once, but I can't say I've noticed an increase in noise. I'll be adding the Space as soon as it comes in (on pre-order). I haven't notice that adding additional factor pedals increased any noise in my system, either. So, at least in my case, stacking these pedals didn't increase the noise.

From your signal chain, it looks like you're using the TF in front of your amp. Have you tried it in the loop? I think the Alchemist has a parallel loop, which isn't necessarily ideal, but it may help reduce some noise in your case, depending on how you use the TF and how you've got the amp's loop levels set.

Hiss can be introduced by incorrectly set levels. While there's not much you can do in-front of the amp, you might want to check to make sure that both level switches on the TF are set to "guitar"/"amp" and not line level. I'm sure you'd notice if they weren't, but I wanted to mention it just in case.

Have you tried putting the TF in front of your boost/drive pedals? You may not like the sound that way, with the delay before the drive, but if you're using the drive channel on the Bogner, the delay's already in front of that. It could be that the TF is delaying (and therefore prolonging or exaggerating) any hiss coming from your drive pedal.

You could try disconnecting everything, running guitar straight into the amp, then introducing one pedal at a time. That way, you might be able to isolate exactly where the noise is coming from or under what conditions it gets worse. It could be caused by a bad cable or an impedence or level mismatch between two pedals.

Anyway, I know these are just some basic ideas, and it's possible that there's a problem with your particular TF. I hope you can isolate and resolve where the noise is coming from, or at least it doesn't get worse if/when you add the Space. One last idea is to try a noise gate before the TF. I'm not a huge fan of expander/gates in general, but gates that can trigger from a different signal than the signal they're gating work a little better. For example, the Boss NS-2 has a loop built into it so that it is triggered by the guitar before any effects, but gates the signal after distortion is added.

[thehafe]

Yeah, like I said, I've done extensive testing between BYPASS and DSP+DLY mode.  That testing was all done without any other pedals in the chain, and done with the TF bypassed. 

That being said, it appears the sole existence of the TF is creating a "hiss."  Give it a try: run the TF alone, make sure the effect is off, then go into the pedal setup and switch between BYPASS and DSP (or DSP+DLY, makes no difference).  DSP (aka the TF's buffer) gives a slight hiss.  And like I said, it's not a big deal, as it's fairly quiet, but my concern is that the stacking of these pedals would also stack the noise.  On the flip side (and I'm no science guy), maybe the buffer, changing the ohms from whatever they were to whatever they become, would make that noise the first time but not the second or third time.  I don't know, and I'm not sure I even know what an ohm is!  :p

Nevertheless, several reputable-sounding people use multiple xFactor pedals, and this doesn't seem to be a glaring issue people talk about, so I'm not worried.

I have not, however, tried the TF in the effect loop of my Alchemist.  I'm afraid to, cause if I like it, I'll have to buy several feet of additional cable to reach my off-stage amp…  Also, I have noticed no noise issues with any of my other pedals.  I'm also not too thrilled about running my OD's after the delay…not quite the sound I'm going for.  I will try it, though, just to see if it changes anything.

Thanks Tim!

[timothyhill]

I'm mostly just curious why yours is adding some hiss, even if minimal, and mine doesn't seem to. I don't have an Alchemist, so I can't say if it's something there, although I doubt it. One of my friends has one, so I'll have to bring along my TF next time I see him. In any case, in my setup, multiple Factors don't cause any additional noise. I hope you find this to be the case, too, if you decide to add another.

[zikamuricpe]

My TF and MF are also adding some hiss, plugged to Fender Blues Deluxe
send/return. I think it has to do with Power Amp In section – if its
volume is max by default, then hiss is more audible. On the other hand,
when I switch my Factors to Bypass mode, the hiss is gone.

[KH Guitar Freak]

Well then, merely asking, but what are you using to power the Eventide pedals???

[timothyhill]

Right now, I'm just using the wall warts that came with the Factors. I think that if they were being under-powered, additional hiss wouldn't be the only symptom.

Zikamuricpe brings up a good point… the design of the loop has a lot to do with how much noise is introduced. The loop in the amp that I most frequently use has a return level after the loop, so I can send as hot a signal as I want to the pedals, then bring it back down before it hits the power section. That helps a lot with noise. I think any pedal, or any audio device for that matter, will introduce more noise if it is operated at lower than expected signal levels.

Pretty sure the OP, thehafe, wasn't running the pedals in the loop, though. Of course, signal level is still a component, and could be why the noise level is higher. I would think that the guitar/amp level selection on the Factors would effectively compensate. It appears that thehafe has these switches set up correctly, too, though. In front of the amp, different types of pickups in the guitar could potentially make a difference (e.g. active vs. passive, high output vs. low output, etc.).

[nickrose]

The factory wallwarts are, if anything, overpowered. That's why they are so big.

Timothy is right in that signal levels are very important. If it is noisy with the switches in the line position, try them in the guitar position.

Note also that pitch tracking in PF will be hurt if the level is too low.

[KH Guitar Freak]

Actually, I'm more concerned about "dirty" power being used to power up those Eventide pedals…

[timothyhill]

I've got the standard wall-warts plugged into a Furman conditioner. Dirty power can cause problems, so that's a good point and very valid. I'd think that if it was simply dirty power, again, hiss wouldn't be the only problem. In most of the places I've played where power quality was a problem, I had a lot of hum and buzzes, static and miscellaneous crackling, much more than additional hiss, but that, too.

[zikamuricpe]

nickrose:

Timothy is right in that signal levels are very important. If it is noisy with the switches in the line position, try them in the guitar position.

The hiss is equal whether the switches are in line or guitar position.

Dirty power could be the problem since I don't use original wallwarts. But, have to say that other devices in my signal chain don't add any noise or hiss. Just Factors, when in DSP Bypass mode.

[thehafe]

This post below provides a video of the noise I'm talking about:

http://forum.eventide.com/cs/forums/t/7003.aspx

Here's the direct link to the video:

Fortunately my noise isn't quite as loud as his, but it's still unacceptable.

[nickrose]

zikamuricpe:

Dirty power could be the problem since I don't use original wallwarts.

Please try the original wallwarts and report back.

[Randy7w777]

If you can run the pedals in loops thats the best the eventides amplify any slight noise sent to

them they are not making the noise themselves. I run 2 Carvin v3 heads and a mod factor and a time factor im adding a pitch factor in a week. The best thing I'm also adding to my system

that I suggest to all is a ISP Technologies Decimator Put that in a serial loop and kill all noise not tone my amp have parallel and series loops. I will run it as mod factor and pitch factor in parallel loops then ISP then time factor in serial loops. I should have no noise at all. The thing I like about an amp with both loops is the serial loop is the very last. If you put an ISP Decimator in your system

make sure your delay is after it so it wont cut your delay but then its sent a clean signal then it wont

make noise

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