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March 12, 2008 at 8:14 am #105446
So I got the TimeFactor two weeks ago with the intention of replacing my DL-4 – but I only opened it now. And I'm so far wondering if I missed something…. and wondering if it's too late to return it. 🙁 (And I've been an Eventide user for almost a decade.)
In specific, it has to do with the response of the unit to changing the time settings. I have many other delay units, and they all generally do the same thing, which is to increase the pitch of the sound caught in the delay (my Repeater actually time stretches the material, which is very cool).
The TimeFactor does something dreadful – it just throws away material around the time that I switch the time knob. It inevitably generates a glitch, but worse, I don't get the ability to turn the time down very short to make the delay scream. And if I turn the time all the way down and then back up again, I lose everything or almost everything. (It does do something like what other delays do as a looper — but I have enough loopers…)
The encoders themselves are also not very musical. If I start at 3000ms, I can turn the knob quite a way before anything happens; then it jumps right to somewhere between 2600 and 2900, it's very hard to get consistent, and the jumps are huge.
Is this really what was intended? The unit, beautiful as it appears, has little or no use to me unless I can play with those knobs live.
March 12, 2008 at 3:31 pm #117145asaundersParticipant
I don't have my TimeFactor in front of me to verify this, but I'm pretty sure that the Vintage Delay does have the kind of time-pitch relationship you are looking for, whereas the Digital Delay drops samples to fit the new time length.
also, smoother transitions in the delay times happen when slowly sweeping the knob, and you can get millisecond accuracy by:
1. turn the knob for the parameter you wish to micro-adjust
2. tap the tempo footswitch
3. turn the encoder (the fx selector knob) to make millisecond adjustments.
March 12, 2008 at 6:01 pm #117147thetwloParticipant
make sure you've updated to version 2! makes a huge difference.
March 12, 2008 at 6:31 pm #117148
I think the things you are looking for are in there, Just maybe not where you are looking. As Anthony mentioned, the Vintage Delay algorithm, as well as the ModDelay and Tape Echo algorithm, all allow you to have pitch change when the knob is turned, and actually act differently from each other as you would expect those three styles to do. The knob update speed is indeed improved in the version 2 beta which is currently available at update.eventide.com/update. Furthermore, to avoid glitches when turning the delay knob in the digital delay mode turn up the xnob which controls the xfade time in this algorithm. This can control both the sound when changing delay times as well as the amount of chorusing when using the modulation section in this mode.
I belive this addresses the issues you've mentioned above, however if there are any more please let us know.
March 12, 2008 at 8:15 pm #117150Andy SMember
Also to add to the above you can also manipulate the time ( and other parameters ) with an expression pedal….unbelievable spacey time warp sounds are available….just full with the patches and you'll find them….
but it sounds like you may like playing ambient, trippy music….I cant stress how much an expression pedal on the right patches can get you where I think you want to go,,
March 12, 2008 at 8:49 pm #117151
Thanks to all for some very promising sounding leads. Strangely, I didn't think of upgrading the OS 😀 perhaps because it's a pedal? But wasn't that one of the positive features for me?
There are other advantages to having active interactions with the company here, that being that if we can clearly enumerate features that are easy enough to implement and give them a competitive advantage, they're likely to want to do it.
I've been using delays of one type or another for, urgh, almost thirty years (can you believe?! I never thought it through before but I was using both tape delays and "digital delay" in the form of primitive PDP-11 8-bit samples in about 1980.
So I have a few ideas… which I'll put in the next post.
March 12, 2008 at 9:01 pm #117152thetwloParticipant
I like the expression pedal idea, what's it looking for? will CV from a modular synth work with it?
I guess, i should go look at the manual.
March 12, 2008 at 11:41 pm #128244
Yeah, it should take a 0 to 3 V cv from a synth, or a 20k ohm pot style pedal.
March 13, 2008 at 3:05 am #117156
After quite a bit of work, I installed the update (1. installer doesn't download on Mac OS, Firefox 2. if you use your email address instead of your user name, the installer hangs for a really long time…)
This does not fix any of my troubles.
Here's what I do – this happens on every patch.
- Play a nice melodic pattern into the delay at 10500ms.
- turn on "repeat"
- just touch the time knob
- a sickening lurch occurs; all the pitches go sour (or; pieces get chopped out)
- turning the time knob back doesn't fix it.
- if I turn the knob anywhere distant and back, all vestiges of my original pitch are lost.
Despite what you say, it seems to randomly lose bits of the original loop.
Frankly, I don't get this "time knob". Let's take the ModDelay; if I play a bunch of middle Cs on this, then press "repeat" — I get a bunch of middle Cs. If I then turn the time down, it lurches, the pitch goes UP…. and then back down to middle C, with some appparently random stuff cut out of the middle.
Same thing happens with the "Vintage" delay; same with the tape echo.
That's not what I want. I want the pitch to go up and stay up when I turn the time down. Pretty well every delay every made does that.
It seems easy to get this to be an OK delay – but I have OK delays. It's trivial to trash the sound; you can do that with anything.
I've spend several hours of my very limited spare time playing with this unit; I have yet to get any musical value out of for me. 🙁 :'-(
March 13, 2008 at 4:53 am #117158
Hmm, don't see my somewhat snarky response here yet. 😀
Pending that, I'd like to point out that even though I might be complaining, I really appreciate the forum and the fast response. If you're reading this and wondering about the unit, this is a very positive feature. You probably don't have such stringent requirements as I do for a delay unit!
I really want a knob that will make this unit squeal or groan in a controlled way (I do have a footpedal hooked up but it still doesn't scream!); I'm convinced that this ability is one of the things that's sold the DL-4 (which this unit is clearly intended to compete against; it even appears as if the power supplies would be plug, voltage and impedence compatible, in fact just tried it for a few moments and it appeared to work!); as a working musician, I really do want to be able to grab a control and twist it to the limit and get mayhem; the current mechanism where the program material caught in the loop tries to regain its original pitch is too bland for rock'n'roll, I want something that might blow my speakers if I did it too loud and with too much regen.
I've had this ability with pretty well every delay I've used. Here's a live example with the DL-4; you can hear it about three minutes into it; note that I don't even crank the delay time all the way down, but I do crank the regen all the way up.
Here's a studio example with the built-in delay on the Yamaha ProMix 01v mixing board that I live with; a fairly primitive delay but very MIDI controllable, which is why I used it as such at the end of this song. You can (I hope) hear (towards the end) that I more or less am able to follow the pitch of the underlying program material by varying the delay time on this massive, regen'ed, feedbacked, limited delay over the entire mix.
March 13, 2008 at 2:40 pm #128249
I see now where the problem is. Instead of using the repeat button try cranking up the feedback to 100% and doing the same thing in the Vintage, Tape, or Mod Delay modes. This will give you the pitch shift you are desiring without going back to 0.
Also, you may want to check out the looper for some of your more interesting ideas regarding going to chaos and coming back. Specifically try using it in overdub mode, turning the depth knob to smooth, and playing with the speed knob.
Hope this helps,
March 15, 2008 at 6:12 am #128258cl516Participant
Yes, I also do the same thing:
to get what you want, I set feedback to 100%.
Mod Delay is my favorite.
Once I pitch shift and come up with something all bent and great sounding,
then i might use the repeat to make a snapshot of a loop.
anything over 100% feedback, and i get into oscillation territory.
i'm getting amazing sounds from the TimeFactor.
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