Patch problem

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    • #106297
      razo1
      Member

      Hi,

      Can you quickly see what is the problem with this patch? It was working when I used a pitchshifter with (#voices) n=1. It is meant to be an infinte feedback loop, but now theres no sound.

      Any help appreciated.

      Thanks, Razo

    • #118771
      IDeangelis
      Member

      Razo

      I don't know what you are trying to do here. But it looks completely wrong.

      -why would you connect two inputs to the mixer, when one does it anyway? Use a MIX.

      -Multishift is a module with a single input and a variable number of outputs you can choose. It can have many different pitch shifter voices BUT all share the same input.

      If you want to have pitch shifting with feedback, you need a single mixer feeding a single pitch shifter or multishift module, w/one voice shifter.

      Infinite loop doesn't work w/shifter in the way you seem to think. When a shifter is recirculated thru its own delay the note will climb or fall in pitch at every repetition, fading beyond the audible threshold in a certain number of repetitions (depending on the interval width). If you want a pitch shifted note to loop forver, then you need an infinite looping delay separated from the pitch shifter.

      So a mix feeding a delay which feed back to the mix (for feedback) is what you want to place before OR after the shifter and don't use the shifter delay at all. Use two instances of everything for a stereo FX, and tie parameters to the same knobs for L/R control.

      The reason why you're not hearing anything may be the the overwhelming feedback generated by mixer levels at 0dB (that's equal 100% feedback!!!). You are over_saturating the shifter input.

      Grand Canyon into a bottle!

      cheers

      Show More...

      I

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    • #118773
      razo1
      Member

      Hi Italo,

      Thanks for your answer, I am aware of the things that you mention. The two inputs are just to sum left & right inputs.. The intention is to get the "spiralling pitch upwards" effect. I include the complete 2-voiceversion that will not give any sound. 

      Actually, I just tried to reduce the number of voices to n=1 in the above preset; and then it sounded right. This is a mystery to me..  What can be the problem with the 2 voice version?

      Thanks Razo

    • #129888
      IDeangelis
      Member

      It's wrong to use a MIXER. A MIX should be used.

      Your previous (and current design) has 4 signals (2 inputs + 2 pitch shifters) feeding back into a single input (MULTISHIFT); that's too much. With hi levels in the MIXER channels you saturate the audio and kill the signal.

      You should not use a multishift w/ a mixer. A true stereo path should be used instead, using 2 separate single voice multishifters ot 2 pitch shifter modules.

      Check my fix!

      I

    • #129889
      razo1
      Member

      Thanks,

      It seems that the point is to keep the signals from the pitchshifters separate otherwise they become very sensitive to overloading of levels (and they go quiet).

      Are there other modules that are critical in the same way? (e.g I would suppose the reverbmodules are not…)

      Finally, are there any "rules" when you should use the PercentageKnob instead of the usual Knob? E.g it seems sensible to use the PercentageKnob with the Mix-module, but when I tried it on the Mixer-module I got a different response (and actually an error)..

      Also, I am quite impressed with Vsigfile 2.4.9  when I have started to work with it.

      Razo

    • #129891
      IDeangelis
      Member

      It's not a question of "critical" modules. It's a problem that can occur if many different signals are sent to a single input, all of them set at 0 dB. Lowering them may help, but better signal path design is the real solution.

      There are no real rules regarding the knobs, just places where one fits beter than the other. When you have Hz, Milliseconds, levels in dB, real measure units, the KNOB will work better as it can be quantized to any of those reference units. When something is measured from -1 to 1, or from 0 to 1, a PERCENTKNOB comes very handy as you have the range covered in 0 to 100% control.

      Modules control inputs understand numbers sent to them If a module has a range of -100 (dB) to 0 (dB) the PERCENT knob sending out 0 to 100 means nothing to that module. Math should be correctly used and applied in relationship to the mosules inner parameters values and ranges. More math can be done using other modules to conver a parameter to a percentage but this requires extra work outside of the modules you have used so far…..

      enjoy Vsig_land!

      It's such a powerful place….

      I

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