Pitchflex alg is glitchy

[Boynigel]

hopefully i’m overlooking something obvious but when i use the Pitchflex alg, it’s glitchy through the travel of my expression pedal from heel to toe and back.  rather than the pitch changing smoothly, i can hear the pitch changing coarsely as semi-tones as i move the expression pedal back and forth.  my H9 is up to date and my expression pedal works fine with all the other algs.

[camn]

I have the same problem and I hate it!

If I push the HotSwitch.. it flexes very smoothly.. but If I use the Exp Pedal.. it has a really stepped/quantized sound.

 

I hate it.

[zerenato]

Same problem here, the pitchflex does not work like a traditional whammy

 

[Boynigel]

zerenato wrote:

Same problem here, the pitchflex does not work like a traditional whammy

 

 

What’s strange is the fact that it used to work perfectly a couple of years ago.  i stopped using pitchflex for a while and i’m sure i’ve done an update since the last time i used it.  i wonder if there was something in one of the update(s) that is causing this problem.  the only thing that has changed in my H9 setup is that i am now using a Tech21 MIDI Mouse with it to scroll the presets.  don’t see how this could be a factor though.

[wedelich]

boynigel wrote:

.0

What's strange is the fact that it used to work perfectly a couple of years ago.  i stopped using pitchflex for a while and i'm sure i've done an update since the last time i used it.  i wonder if there was something in one of the update(s) that is causing this problem.  the only thing that has changed in my H9 setup is that i am now using a Tech21 MIDI Mouse with it to scroll the presets.  don't see how this could be a factor though.

It should be smooth, we'll double check the latest build.  Does it smooth out w/o the MIDI Mouse connected?  I wouldn't think that would make difference either, unless for some reason the MIDI Mouse was bombarding it with MIDI CCs or something (I doubt it).  Also, what kind of expression pedal are you using? 

[Boynigel]

wedelich wrote:

boynigel wrote:

.0

What’s strange is the fact that it used to work perfectly a couple of years ago.  i stopped using pitchflex for a while and i’m sure i’ve done an update since the last time i used it.  i wonder if there was something in one of the update(s) that is causing this problem.  the only thing that has changed in my H9 setup is that i am now using a Tech21 MIDI Mouse with it to scroll the presets.  don’t see how this could be a factor though.

It should be smooth, we’ll double check the latest build.  Does it smooth out w/o the MIDI Mouse connected?  I wouldn’t think that would make difference either, unless for some reason the MIDI Mouse was bombarding it with MIDI CCs or something (I doubt it).  Also, what kind of expression pedal are you using? 

i found the problem (by accident)!  it only happens when it is synced with the H9 Control app via my ipad.  Today when i powered up my amp and H9, i went to the Pitch Flex alg and i noticed that the pitch wasn’t glitching as i worked my (Ernie Ball VP Jr.) expression pedal.  However, for some reason the pitch wasn’t going up the full octave even though my exp pedal was in full toe-down position.  At this point i decided to open H9 Control so i could fix this new issue, but when i opened the app, BAM- the glitching was back.  mystery solved!  would be nice if there’s a fix for this, but not a huge issue as i don’t run H9 Control when i play live.

[wedelich]

boynigel wrote:

i found the problem (by accident)!  it only happens when it is synced with the H9 Control app via my ipad.  Today when i powered up my amp and H9, i went to the Pitch Flex alg and i noticed that the pitch wasn't glitching as i worked my (Ernie Ball VP Jr.) expression pedal.  However, for some reason the pitch wasn't going up the full octave even though my exp pedal was in full toe-down position.  At this point i decided to open H9 Control so i could fix this new issue, but when i opened the app, BAM- the glitching was back.  mystery solved!  would be nice if there's a fix for this, but not a huge issue as i don't run H9 Control when i play live.

Huh, what generation iPad/iPhone do you use? The expression / hotknob signal is obviously being slowed down b/c of the communication back and forth with H9 Control. Is it still slow/glitchy if H9 Control is open but it's not on the preset page where it animates the ribbon as the expression pedal moves? We'll check here, I also wonder if faster/newer iOS devices improve this.  

[Boynigel]

wedelich wrote:

boynigel wrote:

i found the problem (by accident)!  it only happens when it is synced with the H9 Control app via my ipad.  Today when i powered up my amp and H9, i went to the Pitch Flex alg and i noticed that the pitch wasn’t glitching as i worked my (Ernie Ball VP Jr.) expression pedal.  However, for some reason the pitch wasn’t going up the full octave even though my exp pedal was in full toe-down position.  At this point i decided to open H9 Control so i could fix this new issue, but when i opened the app, BAM- the glitching was back.  mystery solved!  would be nice if there’s a fix for this, but not a huge issue as i don’t run H9 Control when i play live.

Huh, what generation iPad/iPhone do you use? The expression / hotknob signal is obviously being slowed down b/c of the communication back and forth with H9 Control. Is it still slow/glitchy if H9 Control is open but it’s not on the preset page where it animates the ribbon as the expression pedal moves? We’ll check here, I also wonder if faster/newer iOS devices improve this.  

sorry but i can’t remember which ipad version it is.  i bought it around 5-6 years ago brand new (ipad 2?) if that helps narrow it down.  i never thought to check and see if it only glitches when it’s on the actual preset page, but i’ll give that a test when i get home and check back in with the results.

[Boynigel]

boynigel wrote:

wedelich wrote:

boynigel wrote:

i found the problem (by accident)!  it only happens when it is synced with the H9 Control app via my ipad.  Today when i powered up my amp and H9, i went to the Pitch Flex alg and i noticed that the pitch wasn’t glitching as i worked my (Ernie Ball VP Jr.) expression pedal.  However, for some reason the pitch wasn’t going up the full octave even though my exp pedal was in full toe-down position.  At this point i decided to open H9 Control so i could fix this new issue, but when i opened the app, BAM- the glitching was back.  mystery solved!  would be nice if there’s a fix for this, but not a huge issue as i don’t run H9 Control when i play live.

Huh, what generation iPad/iPhone do you use? The expression / hotknob signal is obviously being slowed down b/c of the communication back and forth with H9 Control. Is it still slow/glitchy if H9 Control is open but it’s not on the preset page where it animates the ribbon as the expression pedal moves? We’ll check here, I also wonder if faster/newer iOS devices improve this.  

sorry but i can’t remember which ipad version it is.  i bought it around 5-6 years ago brand new (ipad 2?) if that helps narrow it down.  i never thought to check and see if it only glitches when it’s on the actual preset page, but i’ll give that a test when i get home and check back in with the results.

Okay i finally got a chance to check this.  to review, mine is only glitchy when it is sync’d up to H9 Edit via BT w/my ipad.  as soon as i sync it to H9 Edit it begins to glitch, even when i leave the Pitch Flex page w/the ribbon strips.  it seems that once the Pitch Flex is “infected” via BT sync, it stays that way until i un-sync, and re-boot the H9.  then everything works once again as it should.

[camn]

wedelich wrote:

It should be smooth, we’ll double check the latest build.  Does it smooth out w/o the MIDI Mouse connected?  I wouldn’t think that would make difference either, unless for some reason the MIDI Mouse was bombarding it with MIDI CCs or something (I doubt it).  Also, what kind of expression pedal are you using? 

 

I would love to troubleshoot this if this is the case.

Here is an example of what I am talking about:

This is with NO midi controller connected.. and NO bluetooth connected. 

Just the H9 with a Mission SP-H9 and an aux switch mapped to Performance Switch.

 

From 0-12 seconds I am pushing the Aux Switch.. which flexes it and it sounds how I think it should.

From 12-34 secs I am using the expression pedal.. which is analog, not midi. I hope you can hear what I am talking about.

From 24-28, back to the AUX switch, then back to the exp pedal.

 

Could it just be my foot? If I go slow enough it seems to smooth out.

boynigel- Is this what you are talking about?

 

[Boynigel]

camn wrote:

wedelich wrote:

It should be smooth, we’ll double check the latest build.  Does it smooth out w/o the MIDI Mouse connected?  I wouldn’t think that would make difference either, unless for some reason the MIDI Mouse was bombarding it with MIDI CCs or something (I doubt it).  Also, what kind of expression pedal are you using? 

 

I would love to troubleshoot this if this is the case.

Here is an example of what I am talking about:

This is with NO midi controller connected.. and NO bluetooth connected. 

Just the H9 with a Mission SP-H9 and an aux switch mapped to Performance Switch.

 

From 0-12 seconds I am pushing the Aux Switch.. which flexes it and it sounds how I think it should.

From 12-34 secs I am using the expression pedal.. which is analog, not midi. I hope you can hear what I am talking about.

From 24-28, back to the AUX switch, then back to the exp pedal.

 

Could it just be my foot? If I go slow enough it seems to smooth out.

boynigel- Is this what you are talking about?

 

 

camn-  that’s exactly what i was experiencing.  did you see my last post?  i’ve recently discovered that, for me, the glitch/gurgle-thing only happens when my H9 is sync’d with H9 Control on my ipad.  hopefull that’s all it is for you too.  good luck!

[Boynigel]

can anyone from eventide weigh in on this?  it’s seems off to me that the company that practically invented quality pitch shifting would have this issue.

[camn]

OMG this is totally it.

 

I just did some more extensive testing, and I have the same results. If I connect via bluetooth.. I get ‘stepping’ via expression pedal. 

If I then turn OFF bluetooth.. it persists. But if I power cycle with blutooth off. . . IT IS SMOOTH AS A BABY’S BOTTOM.

 

Which is a solid workaround for me- I don’t gig with an ipad… so when I leave the studio I just gotta turn off the BT. Bang.

boy-nigel you are my hero.

Friends at Eventide- if you wanna troubleshoot this I am your monkey.

[gkellum]

camn wrote:

Friends at Eventide- if you wanna troubleshoot this I am your monkey.

Sounds like we need to.  Thanks for helping pinpoint this problem.

[Boynigel]

camn wrote:

OMG this is totally it.

 

I just did some more extensive testing, and I have the same results. If I connect via bluetooth.. I get ‘stepping’ via expression pedal. 

If I then turn OFF bluetooth.. it persists. But if I power cycle with blutooth off. . . IT IS SMOOTH AS A BABY’S BOTTOM.

 

Which is a solid workaround for me- I don’t gig with an ipad… so when I leave the studio I just gotta turn off the BT. Bang.

boy-nigel you are my hero.

Friends at Eventide- if you wanna troubleshoot this I am your monkey.

glad to have helped.  thanks in advance to E-tide for their willingness to find a fix.

[netgig]

the work around is to not use H9 Control AND to disable the Bluetooth on the H9?  What if you don’t use H9 Control but leave the bluetooth enabled on the H9?

[camn]

As long as it doesnt CONNECT to anything via bluetooth.. its no problem. Blutooth can be on.. but not connected. 

For me.

[question]

Hello,

During my trials I noticed that it’s not really much flexible (Well… maybe the correct description is “not flexing well”)

Even if I disable Bluetooth, I still can hear the steps while I slowly turn my external expression knob. These audible steps are in sync with the changing numbers on the H9 display. Maybe this is not a bug and it’s working how it’s supposed to be. Nevertheless, that make it useless for whammyish smooth pitch bending. Are you people sure that non-bluetooth operation solved that issue for you?

Best

Q

[camn]

Yes, Im sure. 

Though- it is a non issue if you are going that slow–that you can count the numbers. You might not be talking about the same thing.

 

If you really want to reproduce it… compare it to the performance switch. Choose preset PITCHFLEX+2OCT. Set the H-T gliss at about 0.20 seconds. Try to reproduce with the EXP pedal the sound the Hotswitch makes. I cant do it with Bluetooth connected.

But I power-cycle (My ipad doesnt auto-connect), and it is pefect and smooth. 

[question]

Yes, may not be the same thing.

I just can hear the steps while the numbers change on H9 independent of bluetooth status.

[camn]

Is it different than the sound of the Hotswitch version?

And are you using a pot or a rotary encoder?

[question]

camn wrote:

Is it different than the sound of the Hotswitch version? And are you using a pot or a rotary encoder?

 

A 15k pot

[netgig]

I have not tried the Hotswitch thing yet but I will give it a try. But I have always noticed that ” stepping sound” also. It is very subtle but I hear it and it drives me nuts. I use the pitchflex default setting for any of the optioins and I use a Dunlop Volume X pedal. I have tried both the Dunlop Volume Pedal setting and tried the FX setting. Same thing. It is not smooth like the original Whammy. It drives me nuts.

[camn]

Netgig– I had the same problem, but it was totally solved by avoiding a bluetooh connection. 

Have you tried this yet? I see you were maybe gonna try? If you ALSO can consistently show the problem.. it might encourage the guys at Eventide to sniff the bug out.

 

Also- try out the HotSwitch if you can. You can just push the button in H9 control. It will let you know what is POSSIBLE with the algo. 

[camn]

And did you compare it to the HotSwitch? Is it the same or different?

[question]

camn wrote:

And did you compare it to the HotSwitch? Is it the same or different?

I’m not sure about the relevance of such comparison, but yes I did and HotSwitch  glide is smooth, exp. pedal’s is not

[camn]

Well, if you can’t see the relevance, I probably can’t help you troubleshoot this. Maybe someone else has some ideas.

Good luck!

[question]

camn wrote:

Well, if you can’t see the relevance, I probably can’t help you troubleshoot this. Maybe someone else has some ideas. Good luck!

As I mentioned, this quantized pitch change via exp pedal is independent of Bluetooth status; it occurs in both states (and hotswitch one is always smooth, even when the bluetooth is on). Being so, I can’t see how this comparison would offer any additional help.

As a side note, same steps are audible when the pitch is changed by turning the big black knob too.

Nevertheless, thanks for your kind wishes : )

 

[siggy76]

The solution is to map the exp pedal not to a CC message but to a pitchbend message. On the other hand your midi pedalboard should be able to send pithcbend messages trough expression pedal. My lf+12+ didn’t but I resolved using a midi solution pedal controller programmed to send pitchbend

[camn]

I guess it makes sense if one is totally missing the point that it is an analog expression pedal. ;/

[brock]

siggy76 wrote:

The solution is to map the exp pedal not to a CC message but to a pitchbend message. On the other hand your midi pedalboard should be able to send pithcbend messages trough expression pedal. My lf+12+ didn’t but I resolved using a midi solution pedal controller programmed to send pitchbend

That makes sense.  Last I checked, pitchbend is definitely received at a higher resolution than a 7-bit CC message.  At least 12-bit; if not double precision 14-bit.  Comes in handy beyond the PitchFlex algo.

The only quirky thing I’ve seen is that it doesn’t return ‘cleanly’ to center, using a keyboard-style pitch wheel (a few cents off).  And yes, MIDI Solutions offer some great … solutions to all kinds of routing problems.  They can mount under a pedalboard, and (in most cases) powered over MIDI.

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