POP sound when switching presets routed pre+post to post+post

[dedeman]

I have two H9’s connected as depicted in the attached image.

When I switch from a preset where H9A has a PRE routing algo (EQ COMP) and H9B a POST routing algo (VINTAGE DLY) to a preset where both H9’s have POST routings, the shwitching is fine. But, when I switch back, a POP sound occurs!

This is really obvious because both are clean sounds, and the pop is repeated by delay… Is there something wrong with my setup? Or is it “normal” to have pops when swithcing presets with different routings?

[dedeman]

I don’t want to push on this, but do you (Eventide) have an answer to this POP sound? Otherwise, PRE/POST feature is useless and not usable.

I want to use EQ/Compression in front of preamp and use Delay after preamp on a preset, but I cannot switch back from other preset where both H9’s are routed POST, whithout getting this loud POP. It’s loudnes is proportional with signal level. Basically, this cannot be used in a live situation.

I don’t even want to try a noisy Sculpt or Crush algo routed PRE (where they’re supposed to be) and then discover the hugeness of an even louder POP, when I switch from timebased presets routed POST.

[nickrose]

Sorry – don't have an answer. You may well get a sound if you perform major routing changes with signal passing through – there are crossfades to smooth things, but the switching cannot be inaudible – at best you will get a short "dip" in levels, which may be to what you refer.

Many many people appreciate this feature, so it is probably not useless.

.

 

[tstern]

Can you post a recording or video of the pop?  It may be easier for us to figure out/work with you if we can see it happen and get a sense of the extent of the issue.

[dedeman]

tstern wrote:

Can you post a recording or video of the pop?  It may be easier for us to figure out/work with you if we can see it happen and get a sense of the extent of the issue.

I have made a recording demonstrating the pop-sound:

https://youtu.be/JYJmcJJPRkg

 

 

H9 A General Setup:

Routing signal – Pre/Post

CC assignment: Activate – 85

Algo used: 

Preset 5 – EQ Compressor (routed PRE)

Preset 6 – Flanger (routed POST)

 

H9 B General Setup:

Routing signal – Pre/Post

CC assignment: Activate – 86

Algo used: 

Preset 5 – H910 H949 (routed POST)

Preset 6 – SpaceTime (routed POST)

 

• H9’s are connected as per diagram, except guitar goes directly to H9-A input 1.
• Changing presets with Midimate controller, sending PC#5 (Clean) and PC#6 (SPACE). Both presets transmit CC85 – On, CC86 – On. Switching between activated presets on H9.

 

POP sound is coming FROM SPEAKER although on video sounds like a relay clicking, yet no relays are switching; amp channel is ONLY CLEAN. Pop occurs when switching Preset 6 (H9A algo is POST, H9B algo is POST) to Preset 5 (H9A algo is PRE, H9B algo is POST), not from 5 to 6. A sort of muting level variation happens when switching Preset 5 to Preset 6. The kind your coleague was talking about in your response.

 

If you need more info, please let me know.  I would really like to have this routing options and H9’s wiring, having the flexibility to place algo’s either in front or after preamp, in both H9’s. However, if you can suggest a better wiring of the two H9’s, it would be very helpful.

 

Thank you for your support.

[benriddell]

dedeman wrote:

POP sound is coming FROM SPEAKER although on video sounds like a relay clicking, yet no relays are switching; amp channel is ONLY CLEAN. Pop occurs when switching Preset 6 (H9A algo is POST, H9B algo is POST) to Preset 5 (H9A algo is PRE, H9B algo is POST), not from 5 to 6. A sort of muting level variation happens when switching Preset 5 to Preset 6. The kind your coleague was talking about in your response.

 

If you need more info, please let me know.  I would really like to have this routing options and H9’s wiring, having the flexibility to place algo’s either in front or after preamp, in both H9’s. However, if you can suggest a better wiring of the two H9’s, it would be very helpful.

 

Thank you for your support.

 

I always have my 2 H9s in the effects loop in series but looking at your signal flow diagram I think you’ve got an problem.

If you have your H9A in a POST preset how can you feed it a signal when input & output 2 are active. I think the issue you’ve got with that diagram is H9A can never be in the loop but H9B can be in front of the amp or in the loop.

Would it not be easier to have one in front and one in the loop, loading the appropiate presets into pedals?

[tstern]

Is it possible to generate the pop with only one H9?  It's possible that this is an issue with interaction between the two H9's, in which case you might need to play with the timing and routing of your MIDI changes.

 

As my colleague mentioned above, it is very difficult for us to remotely diagnose issues with complex setups… there are many things that can be going on that we can't  possibly see or know about.  The best bet is to find a qualified technician to help you out, or to patiently break down the problem and setup yourself, to find the least complex possible setup that makes the problem happen.  Unless you can do that, it's going to be a Sisyphean task for us to help you.

[dedeman]

1. I have just tested with only one H9 and the POP sound is just the same! I thought I have a faulty H9, so I tested with the other one as well, and the POP sound occurs again, when switching from a preset POST to a preset routed PRE (not the other way around).

2. Did you verify my claim in your testing setup? You only need an amplifier with Loop, so you can verify it yourself. Does it happen to you as well? For this mono test I used the wiring as described in your page. In fact, my wiring with 2 H9’s is just the same, except they are put in series, as in my diagram. So… 2x H9’s and an amp is a “complex setup”?!?

4. Could you be a bit more explicit about timings when switching with midi?

5. Is this POP sound “normal”? Would you use pre/post per preset in a live performance, with this pop sound occuring?!?…

[floresp640]

Hi! I am trying to re-create the popping issue you are having with the dual H9 Setup. I emulated your setup (with a few differences i.e Master control instead of MIDI Mate. I also did not use the TS8MS and just plugged the guitar in straight into input 1 of H9A), I was not getting a loud popping noise when I was switching between the two presets. Can you try a few things?

1.) Can you try turning off PRE/POST and see if the popping persists?

2.) Can you try taking out the TS8MS pedal out of the chain and just having the guitar plugged straight into input 1 of H9A.

3.) Finally, can you try using a different MIDI foot switch?

We’re just trying to isolate the issue so that we can come up with a good solution to fix it.

Sorry for the inconvenience!

[dedeman]

floresp640 wrote:

1.) Can you try turning off PRE/POST and see if the popping persists? 2.) Can you try taking out the TS8MS pedal out of the chain and just having the guitar plugged straight into input 1 of H9A. 3.) Finally, can you try using a different MIDI foot switch? We’re just trying to isolate the issue so that we can come up with a good solution to fix it. Sorry for the inconvenience!

1. Simply turning Normal Routing in both H9’s connected together as before, leads to feedback/sqealing! So, I rewired both H9’s in amp’s loop only: Guitar directly into amp’s INPUT, then SEND > H9A input 1 / output 1 >  H9B input 1 / output 1 > RETURN. Result: No popping. As i said before, even if I was in Pre/Post routing in H9’s, if I switch between presets routed POST only (in one or both H9’s), no popping as well.

2. TS8MS was at no time in the setup, just on the drawing. So it should be disregarded from the equation.

3. I can only use H9 as a midi controller, instead of Midimate. I wired H9A as per your page indication for connection and I routed it PRE/POST, set Midi Channel to 1 and it’s midi output to Thru. I used H9B as midi controller, and set it’s midi output to Transmit (no audio connections to it). I want to control 2 different presets in H9A, one saved with PRE the other POST. New (damn) findings:

H9B does not transmit midi! It may be that this unit is faulty. I tried to change Midi Channel to 1 or 2, etc. or Omni, but it does not transmit midi. H9A used as a transmitter works ok for the other H9B though… This is more upsetting, but let’s get back to the popping issue: H9A (and B)  pops even when switching presets PST to PRE from it’s footswitches (load & activate preset). I don’t even think midi has anything to do with it any more.

At this point I am baffled… I don’t know what to think, which one works all right and which one doesn’t? I am attaching the two presets I am using to switch in my working H9A (or B) wired as in your page, routed PRE/POST. Please try to load them in your H9 and switch between them to see if it pops for you.

[dedeman]

TS8-MS is just on the drawing. In my setup I go directly to input 1 in H9A.

I can only use the other H9 as midi controller. Is that ok? 

Can I ask what amp are you using in your test? Although I don’t think this is relevant.

[dedeman]

Regarding poping, I have noticed one other thing, which may be important: it only happens if there is audio signal (green led on). IF no audio signal or low enough so the green led is off, there is no popping.

[dedeman]

I apologize for the “damn findings” earlier, please disregard that. I didn’t made the right XMT settings in the H9 used for midi controller.

So, I can confirm that even with another controller, switching a POST to a PRE routed preset results in popping.

You could replicate that as well, I suppose, maybe using the presets I loaded above.

[floresp640]

So I've tried everything here to recreate the issue and to no popping results. I had emulated your setup with the exception of the amp (I used an Eleven Rack) and had routed it according to your chart and then without the MIDI controller (H9A sends MIDI). It is rather strange that you are getting a loud popping noise when switching between pre/post to post/post. I am having trouble figuring out the exact issue with your setup remotely but it doesnt look like a problem with Pre/Post-Post/Post. I would try switching to a different amp as ot could be a problem with your effects loop. 

Make sure you cover all your bases and if that still doesnt work and you believe that it could be a hardware issue with your H9 unit, please contact Support@eventide.com

 

[dedeman]

As I said in my posts, if you really read them, I reversed the pedals and they both POP when I switch from POST-POST to PRE-POST presets.

As a matter of fact, you don’t even need to replicate my setup of 2 H9, you just need to one for pre/post function, as you described in your page. And the poping is there in both. I doubt it is a H9 failure, but at this point I am sure that what happens inside with this pre/post doesn’t work well. 

Or it may be an amplifier issue. I will test with another amp that I have, and get back to you on that.

[floresp640]

I have tried that and im sorry you are having issues with your system. Please email me at pflores@eventide.com so I can better help you with the issue. 

[joebenclark]

I too am having this issue with a single H9 in PRE/POST mode. it happens when i switch between a preset in PRE and a preset in POST, and the inverse too. It also happens when i change a preset from PRE to POST and inversely. Its louder than the instrument signal itself.  H9 is wired in front of (PRE) and in the effects loop (POST) of a Fender Bassbreaker.

[camn]

I am under the impression this is actually normal operation. Maybe some people’s setups kind of ~amplify~ the suond.. but the h9 is physically re-routing the signal, so it seems normal.

 

Mine makes a sound.. loud enough that I avoid it during certain parts of songs.. but not loud enough to need to mute it or anything.

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