Program change receive map problem.

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    • #113604
      awin1805
      Member

      Hello,

      Although I’m new to the h9 max I have been using midi for years but am puzzled by what is happening when I use h9 control to create my program change map.

      For example, if I’ve understood the process correctly, I should be able to send the change number 15 to my h9, and then using the map, I should be able to get the h9 to load preset 28. The problem I’m having is that the h9 loads preset 15 instead of 28. I have made sure that the receive number 15 is mapped to preset 28 in h9 control and have checked that I remove the USB lead when I’ve finished mapping. Unless there is something I’ve overlooked or have made a mistake I cannot understand what is happening.

      Best wishes, Andrew.  

    • #143969
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      It will take us a small while to look into this. If you are so inclinded, you can help us (and yourself) by looking at the MIDi maps on the H9 (see UM) and see if they are what they should be.

       

    • #143970
      awin1805
      Member

      Thanks for your reply.

      I will check the midi maps as soon as I can, but given that I have only had my h9 for a short time I feel that the unit will be as set at factory.

      Many thanks for your help, Andrew.

    • #143971
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      From factory, the setting will be 1:1, 2:2, etc.

      I'm interesting in knowing if these changed after trying to set them using H9Control.

      If they didn't, we have to fix it.

       

    • #143974
      awin1805
      Member

      Hi Nick,

      I have checked the PC change map in h9 control and have found that the map is not as factory. Aside from the few that I have changed, as mentioned in my original post, the rest of the map currently reads: 0:1, 1:2, 2:3. etc. It seems that according to the map, every input number should give me a preset one number higher.

      This is confusing because in actual real world use, the h9 gives me the same preset number as the input number no matter what I do to the map. The h9 is completely ignoring the PC change map.

      I have checked the h9 itself to see if any of my own mapped presets have been stored on the unit and they have.

      Whilst this problem is awkward and confusing, I can work around it if needs be, it does not spoil my enjoyment of the h9.

      Hope this helps. Andrew

    • #143975
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      I think you are encoundering a well known MIDI dillema – is the first one 1 or 0 ? 

      Since MIDI ranges between 0 and 127 (there cannot be a 128), the first MIDI value is 0. 

      But, on our units, the first real preset is 1 (since zero confuses some people).

      I say real, because we sometimes call temporary (unsaved) presets 0.

      So, the first entry in the default MIDI map is 0:1.

    • #143976
      awin1805
      Member

      Yes, what you are saying seems to reflect what I’m seeing in the h9 control map. According to the map, an input of 0 will give me preset 1.

      Would it be a good idea to do a factory reset and/or re-map the whole list so that 1=1, 2=2. etc.

    • #143977
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      I think on balance that the way we do it is best (of course).

      This is because it really is MIDI Program Change 0 that gives you Preset #1.

       

    • #143978
      awin1805
      Member

      Ok, thanks Nick, I will leave the midi map as it is for now and will endeavour to work around it.

      I am still at a loss to understand what is going on given that the h9 is ignoring the map. I keep wondering if, because I’m new to the h9, I’ve made some kind of mistake or have misunderstood something or if there is a fault with the h9 and the control interface.

    • #143981
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      My belief is that the H9 MIDImap works fine. I'll check it tomorrow, and speak to Mr. H9Control, and be sure that his side works.

       

    • #143991
      awin1805
      Member

      Carried out a factory reset on my h9 today, but the problem persists.

      As we have already established, the default change map should read, 0:1, 1:2, 2:3. etc. and it does. However, the h9 is still ignoring it. 

      For the purpose of this test I changed the map so that an incoming midi change number of 9 should give me preset 33, it did not, it gave me 9.

      I’ve reached the limit of my twenty years of midi mapping experience and must confess that I’ve never encountered a problem like this. Compared to some midi devices I feel that the h9 is simple and straightforward to map, particularly because of the h9 control app for the computer.

    • #143992
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      As far as we can see, it all works as expected. I assume you are using the latest versions of H9 and H9 control.

      Since you are using H9Control, it would be helpful if you would:

      1) Look at the RCV.MAP on the H9 and see if it corresponds to what you see on H9Control.

      2) Try adjusting a couple of map entries diredly on the H9, and see if they do what you would expect.

       

    • #144003
      awin1805
      Member

      I plugged my H9 into the computer via USB to access H9 control, checked to see If everything was up to date and could see a message below a list of updates telling me that my H9 was up to date.The last update on the list was also highlighted and the number corresponded with the one that I could see at the top of the various H9 control pages. Unplugged USB.

      On the H9 I accessed the RCV.MAP in the midi section and could see that the default map was the same as the map displayed on H9 control, I then duplicated the same test that I had done yesterday. I scrolled to the input Prg.no.9 and changed the preset no. to 33, I then exited system mode and sent the midi change number 9 via my controller and got prveset No.9 ( DRIVE ) I should have got 33 ( DARK CAVE ).

      I have some additional information which I feel has no bearing on the problem but given that I’m new to the H9 I could be completely ignorant of something and you may see some kind of link.  

      My H9 is second in a midi chain controlled by a Boss ES8, the first and only other midi device on my board is a Strymon Timeline. I only send Prg change numbers with my ES8 and have swithed CC# off, this is because I prefer to edit presets to my taste and then leave them alone, also, the Timeline thinks I’m trying to use the looper if I don’t switch the CC# off. I have no problems with the Timeline, it  behaves the way it should when recieving a midi Prg.change no.

      I hope this helps, Andrew.

       

    • #144005
      awin1805
      Member

      Have carried out all the tests and checks as mentioned in your last posting.

      My H9 is up to date, the default map is the same on the H9 as in H9 control.

      I changed the map on the H9 so that  change no.9 should give me preset 33, I got preset 9 again, the same as yesterday when I used H9 control to change the map.

      I respecfully suggest that there is a problem with my H9 and am seriously considering taking it back to the store if I fail to work around the problem.

      Best wishes, Andrew.

    • #144006
      gkellum
      Member

      Instead of just setting program change 9 to load preset 33, could you also set 8 to load 32 and 10 to load 34 to be sure that you're not dealing with an off by one error.

      If I were dealing with this problem myself, I'd also as another test take the MIDI cable that's feeding into my H9 and connect it momentarily to a computer instead to be sure that the H9 is actually receiving what I think it is.  You can use MIDI Monitor on Mac and MIDI Ox on Windows to do this.  At the very least it would be best to connect the H9 directly to the thing that's creating the program change messages instead of putting it at the end of a MIDI chain.  

    • #144018
      awin1805
      Member

      Have carried out the MIDI mapping test you suggested in your last post.

      All editing was done on the H9 itself, MIDI messages were sent using two different MIDI controllers and two different cables. Both controllers and cables have been proven to work, as expected, with other FX units. The H9 was tested, both in the MIDI chain on my current board and connected directly to each controller in turn.

      I used the MIDI mapping that you recommended: 8:32, 9:33, 10:34. The resaults were consistant no matter what the controller/cable configuration was.

      8:8, 9:32, 10:33. This is very confusing. 8:8 is consistant with the problem thet I’d been having, yet, 9:32, and 10:33 are more understanable in MIDI terms.

       

      • #144019
        gkellum
        Member
        awin1805 wrote:

        8:8, 9:32, 10:33. This is very confusing. 8:8 is consistant with the problem thet I'd been having, yet, 9:32, and 10:33 are more understanable in MIDI terms.

        Ok, this is good news.  That means it's an off by one error.  If you want the H9 to load preset 32 when you're sending MIDI program change "9" to it, you need to enter that as 8 in H9 Control or on the H9.  You just subtract one from the program change number.

        I ran into this same problem when I was trying to reproduce your problem.  I was using a program called Max and I was typing in values like 1, 2, 3… but what it actually was sending was 0, 1, 2 and so on…  Some programs start numbering program change messages from 1 whereas others number from 0.  It's more user friendly to number from 1 because presets usually start at 1.  But the actual bits of the messages start from 0.

    • #144020
      awin1805
      Member

      Following the previous confusing resaults I have conducted further tests and feel I may have detected a pattern. I edited the map so that 7:32, 8:33, 9:34, 10:35.

      7 gave me 7, 8 gave me 32, 9 gave me 33 and 10 gave me 34. It seems as though, when a sequence of changes are mapped, the first one gives me the same preset number as the program change number and then the rest of the sequence is correct according to the MIDI numerical Offset.

    • #144021
      awin1805
      Member

      Agreed.

      Have now been able to map my H9 successfully. I can remember this problem from the late 1990’s when I had three rackmount units running. My previous setup prior to the H9 board had no such issues.

      Thank you very much for your hard work and patience.

      Many thanks and best wishes, Andrew.

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