Really Need your help guys Space pedal (need kevin shields reverse reverb sound)

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    • #108043
      Flood123
      Member

      I am brand new to the forum and the wonderful world of eventide(btw not trying be a jerk and steal to  Flood's name. Flood is actually my legal middle name). First off, hello! 😉 Now for the meat and potatoes of the message.

      I am really in need of a Kevin shields style reverse reverb. Is there anyone out there that can help me? I am having a hard time dialing this thing. I have been trying for about a month now. No dice so far. Any one up to the challenge of designing a preset? there got to be someone out there kind enough to hep a brotha out? I would seriously be indebted to you. Pretty please with sugar on top? I need that reverb sound for a project that I am working on. Not originals actually. More of a tribute. Thanks in advance guys. I sincerely appreciate it.

    • #122509
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Can you post a link to an example or give me a song title with min:sec of the sound you're looking for.  I have a copy of Loveless, if it's on that record.  I can give it my best shot when I get a chance. 

      Also, have you done any research into the gear he used at the time to do it?  I think I've seen this question on various forums on the interwebs before, I think that information is available. 

      Russ

    • #122512
      Flood123
      Member

       I really appreciate the help! You just made my day!!! Seriously, you have no idea. Yet another reason I am thrilled with my Eventide "Space" Purchase. You guys are awesome. I will absolutely be buying the rest of the  line of stomp boxes when i can afford them. They are amazing devices. Almost unfair to just label them stomp boxes because they are so much more. The sooner the better with this one because i have practice for this tribute Sunday and the actually tribute on the 20th. However I am not an ingrate so I will be happy with whenever you have time. 

       It is absolutely from the Loveless album. "To here knows when" and "Blown a wish" are very good representations of the reverse gate reverb I am looking for. 
      I know he used a yamaha spx90.

      Show More...

      From an ex roadie:

      http://www.mybloodyvalentine.net/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=d4c64bb3ec2aba657b00dac9f9acc752&topic=116.msg7856#msg7856

      It is Reverse Gate that was used, set to reverse, output and balance at 100%, liveness set around 3-5 (depending on venue), room size 20.0 (of course), can't remember what LPF or pre delay was set at (it was 15 years ago).
      You may have misunderstood was I was saying RE: MidverbII, I have no idea how long the bloom length is in seconds (I am not complete nerd), I know that preset used was number 46. Input at unity, mix 100% wet, output at unity or thereabouts.
      JCM800 – 2 amps, mono path, single output from PN-2, used on 'Only Shallow'.

      Again THANK YOU SO MUCH. I know if anyone can figure it it its you guys!
      Respectfully,

      Peter (Flood123) 

      Show Less...
  • #133689
    wedelich
    Moderator
    Eventide Staff

    Ok I spent a little time with it, I was actually curious about this one myself anyway.  I think I can offer a starting point or two, but you'll have to take it from there.  NYC apartments aren't kind to trying to replicate MBV guitars, so I did what I could with my Tele, a Space, an OCD or a Fulltone Ultimate Octave (only two distortions at my place right now), and tiny tiny 5 Watt 50 year old Supro practice amp.   I believe you can achieve something close his sound by using Space and a creamy overdrive or fuzz (neither of my two were quite getting me there).  

    At first I thought he was using long reverb types and not playing too many notes, but after watching some videos, he appears to be strumming quite a bit on some openish looking chords (C formations and power chord looking stuff).   So, I think the reverbs are of the shorter reverse-reverb nature, b/c there is not any noticeable pick attack.  Also, I'm pretty sure the reverb has to go BEFORE the distortion, and you might even experiment with distortion on both sides of the reverb.  

    Try this first (I'll give ranges b/c all guitars are different):  use the Reverse algorithm in Space, Tempo mode, Mix around 66, Decay 1/8, Size 50-70, Feedback <25, Low-LvL 50-75, Hi-lvl -50 to -75, Contour 30-50, ModLvl 10-30, Diffusion 40-70, Late dry 0-10.  

    Strum a song like "To Here knows When" and tap in the tempo until it feels just right with all the swirliness.  If it's too big, pull down the standard late Reverb with Size or turn down the Feedback around the Reverse section (Delay know).  If you don't like the Mod, turn it off (I like a little b/c it's a good doubling effect, and the tracks on the record sound very layered to me).  You can add more attack at the beginning by turning the Mix down, at the end by turning Late Dry up, or in the swell up by turning down Diffusion.  You should also EQ to taste, but to my ears there isn't much piercing high end, I rolled it all off on my guitar and cut it significantly on Space, but this kind of stuff will differ b/t setups.  

    You can also get good reverse sounds with BlackHole and MangledVerb.  In BlackHole use INV-GRAV on the decay knob, and in MangledVerb turn the decay to 60 or below.  In both of these, SIZE and DECAY will affect how long the swell lasts, but there is no Tempo swell.  Mangled Verb actually is a Reverb into a distortion, so it might get close…..I'd have to play with that one some more, you should try it.  

    Also, I believe most of the detuning he does with his whammy bar.  I have no idea what distortions he was using.   The OCD flat didn't do it.  MangledVerb got close, the fuzz on the ultimate octave got closer.  I've read somewhere he used a RAT.  Do you know? 

    -Russ

  • #134707
    Flood123
    Member

    Sorry for the way delayed responce. Life and tendinitus got in the way of my guitar playing. Those sounds are close but not exactly what I am looking for. I've got the fuzz and distortion outside the space. I am pretty sure during the loveless era he was using a Marshall Shredmaster and or a lovetone Big cheese. The sound was originally made with a yamaha spx 90 with early reflections reverse gate reverb.  Here is a guy doing the sound i am looking for with a memory man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXuvDRSwN8&feature=youtube_gdata_player. The example starts at 3min 10 sec in. As you can hear it has a pretty intense racket ball type flutter. If this is possible and you can help I would be eternally grateful. I am gonna be pickintimesaver rest of the pedal line shortly.

    • #150055
      actioncamp
      Member
      flood123 wrote:

      Sorry for the way delayed responce. Life and tendinitus got in the way of my guitar playing. Those sounds are close but not exactly what I am looking for. I've got the fuzz and distortion outside the space. I am pretty sure during the loveless era he was using a Marshall Shredmaster and or a lovetone Big cheese. The sound was originally made with a yamaha spx 90 with early reflections reverse gate reverb.  Here is a guy doing the sound i am looking for with a memory man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXuvDRSwN8&feature=youtube_gdata_player. The example starts at 3min 10 sec in. As you can hear it has a pretty intense racket ball type flutter. If this is possible and you can help I would be eternally grateful. I am gonna be pickintimesaver rest of the pedal line shortly.

      i know it’s not the Space pedal, but that particular effect is precisely what Ultratap on an H9 does. i made a preset very similar to mimic Johnny Marr’s mandolin Casio gtr lead on “please please please let me get what i want”

      https://tributefestpgh.bandcamp.com/track/please-please-please-let-me-get-what-i-want

  • #134711
    ndeshpande
    Member

    Hi,

    First things first, let's get something out of the way: a LARGE part of Kevin Shields' sound is the fact that he's using numerous double stacks of JCM800s and Jazzmasters/Jaguars. He holds the tremolo arm in such a way that when he strums it causes the bridge to move as well, creating that wavering modulation. Unless you have a similar setup, you aren't going to nail that portion of the sound. 

    That being said, you can get close. The algorithms on Space alone that will get you close are:

    -Dynaverb: Kevin Shields used a reverse gate reverb, so see if you can't mess with size and threshold controls. That might get you somewhere in the ballpark. 

    -Manlgedverb: Configure the reverb to go as big (or small) as you want, and crank the drive as loud as you can. 

    -Blackhole: Set the decay time fairly short, and set the gravity to -100 (or somewhere else negative and large). 

    There are also two presets that come to mind that I think might be a good starting place: DoomDrive and DriveDoom. You might have some luck tweaking those. 

    Experiment with fuzz placement before and/or after Space, and hopefully those will get you where you want to go. 

    Nikhil

  • #134712
    Flood123
    Member

    Nikhil<
     Yeah the glide guitar technique (his use of the 
    tremolo arm)used by kevin shields is something that I am very familiar with. I am using a demeter TGA 3 as my amp and personally like the sound better than the jcm 800. I don't need exacts.  It is really the reverse gate I am looking for. I am gonna experiment with these settings. Thank you so much.

  • #134713
    ndeshpande
    Member

    Hi,

    Let me know what your luck is like. If there are subtle nuances that aren't there, I might be able to help guide you in some way shape or form, but overall my intuition tells me those should get you part of the sound. Particularly Black hole – that's a really flexible preset. 

    It's also worth noting… an equally large part of the Kevin Shields sound is the fact that he uses lots of drone strings and odd chord shapes. Again, standing in front of a large amp, that creates some really nice feedback. 

    And, of course, don't forget to turn your amp up (short of damaging your hearing, of course). I don't know much about Demeters, but I imagine they can get pretty loud. JCM 800s have a very unique sound though, there's no denying that… 

  • #134714
    Flood123
    Member

    after a lot of messing around I have come up empty handed. Here is a guy doing the sound i am looking for with a memory man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?The example starts at 3min 10 sec in. As you can hear it has a pretty intense racket ball type flutter. Nothing I have gotten is coming close.

  • #134715
    Flood123
    Member

    After a good deal of messing around I am not getting anywhere close.The racket ball type flutter is key. Here is a guy doing the sound i am looking for with a memory man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXuvDRSwN8&feature=youtube_gdata_player. The example starts at 3min 10 sec in. As you can hear it has a pretty intense racket ball type flutter.

  • #134718
    ndeshpande
    Member

    Hi,

    The sound in that video is coming from a multi-tapped reverse delay line, which Space doesn't do. If you want that sound from an Eventide stompbox, I suggest you look at the TimeFactor, MultiTap mode will get that sound. 

    The closest you can get to that sound on Space is with Blackhole. Inverse Gravity at 100 (decay knob all the way to the left), size somewhere around 35, no predelay, feedback around 80, modulation and eq to taste. Not precisely that sound, but it's certainly something. Turn up the modulation depth, crank your amp's gain (once again, careful not to damage your hearing!), and you should have a half-decent MVB swirly wall-of-sound reverb going on. Again, experiment with distortion before and after (or even none, if your amp gets heavy enough) and you should be close. 

    Thanks,

    Nikhil

  • #134719
    Flood123
    Member

    hHere is the actual unit used by kevin shields http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BqHiSsReFc. Is it your opinion after listening to this that the only way to do this with your stomp boxes is with the titimefactor and not space ?

  • #134721
    ndeshpande
    Member

    To be honest, if you want to get precisely that sound then buy an SPX-90. Like I've said, there are some sounds that will certainly get you close, but that sound is best done on those old Yamaha units. 

  • #134723
    Flood123
    Member

    Thank you for your honest assessment and time. Btw with a bit more tweaking was able to get closer .

  • #135341
    ngronlund
    Participant

    I noticed that the Eclipse V4 has preset # 476 "My Blood Val".  What are the settings for this patch and can it be programmed into the Space? – Nathan

  • #136072
    Flood123
    Member

    What settings would i need to achieve this sound with the timefactor? Just the delay portion of the tone. I have the overdrive handled. I recently added it to my pedalboard. your help is appreciated. Thank you.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrXuvDRSwN8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

  • #136124
    Flood123
    Member

    BUMP

  • #136127
    Imerkat
    Member

    To me it sounds like the UltraTap will get you there but I neither have the TF nor the H9 to help out, sorrySad

  • #150036
    nodatti_peace
    Member

    Now I am trying to set MBV’s backwards sound with ultratap, doesn’t sound good …

    Anybody have idea of nice parameter settings ?

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