Shimmer, either too subtle pitched signal or too much reverb

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    • #116184
      question
      Member

      Hi Q, 

       

       I need to know some more information before I can attempt to assist you. I often find that horn players may have a completely different experience than guitar or synth players with certain algorithms because of a particular mic that’s being utilized. What is your current setup going into the pedal? Is your signal is hot enough going into the H9? Does the green light on your pedal ‘stay green’ all the time? Are you using a mic preamp you can adjust? Let me know…

      -CC

      Hello,

      I’ve recently purchased the Shimmer algo for my H9, and… I’m not unhappy about it so far : )

      My issue is that I cannot seem to achieve a simple (non cascading) and audible enough pitch shifting with it along with a non overwhelming level of reverb. In other words either pitch shifted signal is weak unless I crank up the feedback (which causes, in my case, unwanted second, third etc. passes) or the reverb is too much.

      Assuming it’s highly improbable to have dedicated pitch/reverb balance knob in a future update, I wonder if anyone has a “magical settings” for the Shimmer which may provide more balanced pitch shifter/reverb levels?

      Cheers

      Show More...

      Q

      PS: I’m using it for my trumpet.

       

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    • #156258
      colabelli
      Member

      Hi Q, 

       

       I need to know some more information before I can attempt to assist you. I often find that horn players may have a completely different experience than guitar or synth players with certain algorithms because of a particular mic that's being utilized. What is your current setup going into the pedal? Is your signal is hot enough going into the H9? Does the green light on your pedal 'stay green' all the time? Are you using a mic preamp you can adjust? Let me know…

      -CC

    • #156261
      question
      Member

      Hi,

      Here are more details,

      “Particular mic that’s being utilized”

      a Superlux  PRA-383D mic through a PS-418D belt pack

      or

      an Audio-Technica PRO 35 through an AT 8531 belt pack

       

      These belt packs contain a FET as an impedance converter (emitter follower) and a transformer for balancing the signal.

      I’ve measured their frequency responses some time ago and they were rather flat from 50Hz to 16kHz (with a little drop around 50Hz)

      Show More...

      Both mics are used through an Audio-Technica CP8201 low to high z transformer which also serves a proper XLR to TS adapter

       

      “What is your current setup going into the pedal?”

      Mic -> belt pack -> impedence converter -> H9

      “Is your signal is hot enough going into the H9?”

      Yes

      “Does the green light on your pedal ‘stay green’ all the time?”

      Let’s say 95% of the times. Levels shown in the meters section of the H9 Control software are almost always between -10 to -5 dB (mostly close to -5dB)

      Are you using a mic preamp you can adjust?

      No, but signal levels are fine already, please see above

      Also it’s mostly a clean signal, think of a nice, smooth sine wave : )

       

      As a side note, I’m currently using the same setup with other H9 algorithms with wonderful results.

      Thus this may not be a source issue. Actually I think the Shimmer algorithm is working as it’s supposed to be. For example the reverb part is rather nice. I’m getting fully satisfactory reverb levels and tones. It’s just the first pass levels of the pitch shifted audio signal is a little low (compared to what I expect) when I lower the pith decay knob value to avoid the second and third etc. passes.

      In other words when I set the pitch, let’s say, +1200 cents, I want to hear the first higher octave as much as possible, but the second pass (or +2400) should be inaudible as much as possible.

       

      I thought there might be a sweet spot for this within the settings that I’m missing.

       

      Thanks again

       

      Q

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    • #156262
      colabelli
      Member

      Hey Q, 

       Thanks for the info. After learning more, as you stated, it's not a source issue; it's particular to the architecture of this algorithm. Just out of curiosity, have you clicked on the info tab on the alg which describes what each knob does: 

      Shimmer – [SHIMMR]

      We don’t have proof, but we’re pretty sure this is what the guitars sound like in heaven. Set the [A-PCH] and [B-PCH] to just above and below 1200c, turn the [DELAY] all the way down, and everything else all the way up. Oh, and remember to walk toward the light.



      Mix – [MIX] : wet/dry mixer, 100% is all wet signal



      Decay – [DECAY] : arbitrary 0-100 decay (less decay will also take away reverb attack)



      Size  : size of the reverb



      Delay – [DELAY] : post reverb and pre pitch-shift delay time in milliseconds or note-based in tempo mode



      Low Band Decay – [LO-DCY] : amount of post reverb and pitch-shifter low band signal (this is in the feedback path)

      Show More...



      High Band Decay – [HI-DCY] : amount of post reverb and pitch-shifter high band signal (this is in the feedback path)



      Pitch Shift A – [PICH-A] : Pitch-shifter A pitch in cents (500c=P4th, 700c=P5th, 1200c=1 Octave, 1900=1 Octave+P5, 2400=2 Octaves)



      Pitch Shift B – [PICH-B] : Pitch-shifter B pitch in cents (500c=P4th, 700c=P5th, 1200c=1 Octave, 1900=1 Octave+P5, 2400=2 Octaves)



      Pitch Decay – [PITCH] : The PITCH-DECAY knob controls the amount of pitch shifting in the reverb tail. It increases from 0 to 100. Beyond 100 are two FREEZE modes. PITCH FREEZE locks out the pitch shifters, but feeds the reverb, allowing you to freeze the Shimmer pitch climb at opportune times. PITCH+VERB FREEZE freezes everything (pitch and reverb) for dry soloing on top of the frozen reverb.



      Mid Band Decay – [MIDDCY] : amount of post reverb and pitch-shifter mid band signal (this is in the feedback path)

       

      Try decreasing the SIZE of the reverb, and increasing the PITCH DECAY substantially. This will bring the level of the pitch on the reverb tails to the forefront. Adjust the LOW, HIGH and MID BAND DECAYS to taste. 

      Experiment with this and let me know if you get to the sound you're after… If not, we'll take the next step. 

       

      Cheers, 

       

      -CC

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    • #156267
      question
      Member

      Hi,

      Thanks   for the suggestions,

      And about the “info tab”, yes I’ve read it.

      Now, looking at this diagram  from an older topic,

      https://www.eventideaudio.com/community/forum/stompboxes/h9-shimmer-pitch-decay-etc,

                                                   ____________________________<____________________________

                                                   |                                                                                                   |

                                   Inputs –(+) -> Reverb -> Pitchsifters -> EQ Decays and Pitch Decay –>

                                                                        |

                                                                        |


      > Outputs

      it seems what I want to achieve is not very likely.

       

      Well, unless Santa brings another mix knob there : )

                                                    ___________________________<_______________________________

                                                   |                                                                                                        |

      Show More...

                                   Inputs –(+) -> Reverb -> Pitchsifters -> EQ Decays  -> and Pitch Decay –>

                                                                        |                                                |

                                                                        | —-(additional mix knob) — |

                                                                                               |

                                                                                               |


      > Outputs

      That being said, I’m curious about the next step you’ve mentioned.

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    • #156284
      colabelli
      Member

      Haha, fair point. Can you please provide me with an email address to reach you at? Thankyou…

       

      -CC

    • #156305
      colabelli
      Member

      Did you receive my email?

    • #156287
      question
      Member

       It’s 

    • #156301
      question
      Member

    • #156306
      question
      Member

      Ah yes, a few seconds ago : )

      Reading it now.

      All the best

      Q

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