Split EQ Latency

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  • This topic has 31 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 1 week, 6 days ago by Fender17.
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    • #160897
      moldiver
      Participant

      Just grabbed the Split EQ and when I stick it on a track in Ableton, be it, hardware synth or a soft synth I get latency on the sound. any ideas?

      PC: Windows 10, i7, 32GB of ram, RTX 3080 GPU so should handle it no problem.

    • #160931
      tbskoglund
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Hello,

      SplitEQ is designed for mixing applications and introduces about 70-80ms of latency due to the nature of the tonal/transient split.

    • #160944
      moldiver
      Participant

      You couldn’t mix with this, literally sounds out of time.

    • #160953
      tlongabaugh
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Hey moldiver, SplitEQ introduces latency, but your DAW (Ableton) should compensate for it. This is a standard feature of all modern DAWs.

      In Live, you can confirm it is active under Options->Delay Compensation.

      • #160958
        moldiver
        Participant

        Delay compensation seems to have fixed it, forgot to check that as everything was running fine.

        Cheers.

      • #160978
        tlongabaugh
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff

        Glad to hear it!

    • #161236
      toco_bt
      Participant

      Hello.
      My case is a little different. After all, this plugin has a higher CPU cost than other mixing plugins. It takes up 10 percent of the CPU just to load it. I’m hesitant to load this plugin because I have more than 50 tracks in one project. Of course, the performance of the plug-in itself is amazing, but I hope it will be improved in the new version. If this is not possible, please add an optional switch to make it run lighter. Otherwise I will have to explain to my friends that this plugin is for mastering.
      If I may add, I would like to be able to check the version I’m currently using.

      • #161244
        tlongabaugh
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff

        Hi,

        SplitEQ is certainly a CPU intensive plugin, due to the transient / tonal splitting algorithm. We have a ticket in our system to further investigate optimization of the split (as well as the whole plugin), but at a certain point further optimization would not be possible and you’d start trading CPU cycles for quality. FWIW, we’ve spent significant effort getting the plugin as zippy as we can, but there are likely some further optimizations we could explore.

        Most modern DAWs run separate track processing across CPU cores, so you should find that even if the first instance takes 10%, subsequent instances of SplitEQ on other tracks will not keep adding 10% to the total usage. Additionally, SplitEQ shares some resources amongst multiple instances, so RAM shouldn’t skyrocket either.

        You could try using larger buffer sizes to improve the CPU usage as well.

        Currently you can see the version number of the plugin by hovering over the Eventide logo in the top right. We’ll also consider adding this to the “Info” dropdown menu.

        Hope that helps,

        Tom

    • #161253
      toco_bt
      Participant

      Hi,
      Tom

      Thank you for your response.
      Your detailed explanation helped me to make sense of it.
      I just want to add that I love this wonderful plugin so much that I want to load it on all my tracks.

      For the further prosperity of EvenTide.
      With all due respect

      Toco

    • #161778
      simonja
      Participant

      SplitEQ is causing ~2 beat latency in MIDI editing in Logic (10.7.2), even with Plug-in Latency set to All, or ‘Audio and Software Instrument tracks’. Buffer is at max (1024). I reported an issue to Toontrack for Superior Drummer 3 about the lag in the Grid Editor (MIDI). After much troubleshooting, I identified that it was SplitEQ plug-ins causing the latency. Seemed to be a cumulative effect – the more SplitEQ plug-ins, the more the latency. Even bypassing the SplitEQ plug-ins didn’t work. They have to be removed altogether. Once gone, so does the MIDI lag. Sorry, Eventide. A great plug-in but unusable with this problem.

      • #161799
        tbskoglund
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff

        Hello,

        Sorry for the issue you are having. I was not experiencing latency issues using a basic Drummer track in Logic, but we can try to reproduce this using Superior Drummer 3. Can you please send a screen recording of the issue to tskoglund(at)eventide.com so I can get a better idea of what is happening?

    • #162018
      shaunwortis
      Participant

      I also encountering massive latency with SplitEQ in Logic Pro and had to stop using the plugin. Love the idea and hope this can be remedied in future updates.

      • #162019
        tbskoglund
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff

        Hello,

        Yes, SplitEQ introduces latency as many plug-ins do, this is necessary for for the transient/tonal split. However, many DAWs will easily correct this latency if your settings are configured correctly. In Logic, the delay compensation preferences can be found here: Logic Pro > Preferences > Audio > General

      • #162020
        shaunwortis
        Participant

        Indeed, plugins do introduce latency, but never have I seen this much. In Logic solo a track and turn SplitEQ on and off and on. The result is an unusable mush. No settings appear to compensate for this issue.

      • #162022
        tbskoglund
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff

        The latency compensation seems to be working correctly for me when I’m looping a drum loop that is playing in time with the projects metronome, when latency compensation is set to “all” and I add an instance of SplitEQ, the drum loop is still playing back in time.

        Can you confirm that you have delay compensation set to “all” and you do not have “low latency” turned on?

      • #162046
        shaunwortis
        Participant

        Yes.

        To see/hear the issue, please watch this screen capture video: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b1g37ygk3d0g7js/SplitEQ.mov?dl=0. You can see how enabling/disabling the plugin affects the sound.

        Screen Shot 2022-02-04 at 5.39.03 PM

      • #162047
        tbskoglund
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff

        Ok it looks like your settings are correct. Thanks for providing this example, but I’m sorry to say its difficult for me to tell what is going on in this video because there is no metronome and your drum track has a heavy swing. A simple way to test this would be to loop a single snare drum hit that plays in time with an audible metronome, so if there is an issue with latency it will be easy to see/hear it.

        When I use Logic’s native bypass, there will be a small stutter because Logic is calculating the latency with the plug-in on/off, but this corrects itself very quickly. If you use SplitEQ’s built in bypass, you won’t experience this stutter because the latency isn’t changing. If you’re not experiencing latency issues when SplitEQ is active, then I would suggest using SplitEQ’s built in bypass.

    • #162804
      salvodaze
      Participant

      I’m also having massive recording latency with SplitEQ on any track, not just the armed track. Which is a shame as I often add guitar parts to tracks later on. What’s also strange is that Live does not show this extra latency in the preferences. You can see the regular latency with no SplitEQ anywhere on the project (top pair) vs the extra latency caused by SplitEQ (bottom pair) below. The second (lower) track on each pair is the DI signal for reference. The regular latency is mostly fine, but the added latency makes tracking guitar impossible in any project that has SplitEQ.

      latency

      I wonder if this also affects pre-recorded audio. As in, if I introduce the plugin after all the recording is done, will it still cause latency that is not corrected by Ableton Live?

      I really hope this is fixed as it renders this otherwise great plugin very unattractive for me.

      • #162822
        tbskoglund
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff

        Hello,

        Can you please let me know what buffer size you are using (it should be as low as possible to reduced latency while tracking without overloading your CPU). You should also have both “Delay Compensation” and “Reduced Latency When Monitoring” enabled in Live’s settings. I was able to reproduce your issue when “Reduced Latency When Monitoring” was disabled, but enabling this setting fixed this for me. Let me know if that helps.

    • #162823
      salvodaze
      Participant

      Hi, thank you for the reply.

      I recorded these at 128 buffer size which is what I usually use for tracking.
      <p style=”text-align: center;”>As for the settings, I already tried enabling Reduced Latency When Monitoring which like you say should negate this issue but sadly it didn’t change anything. I haven’t played around with Delay Compensation though, I will give it a try. The strange thing is SplitEQ causing this latency even when off or on another track and Live does not report this added latency on the audio preferences tab. As long as SplitEQ is somewhere in the project, I get this added latency on the armed channel. I will check the Delay Compensation and get back to you. Thanks!</p>

    • #162994
      sergical
      Participant

      I was so excited about this split eq and then came the downer.

      Why all this latencey?

      it’s 2022 who still wants to deal with all that latency?

      That’s a vibe killer!!!!

      vibe killer!!!

       

      thats a nono

      sort the latency out and you have something.

       

      peace

       

    • #162998
      tlongabaugh
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Hi, sorry to hear the latency is a showstopper for you.

      Cleanly separating transient and tonal material inherently requires introducing latency. Why? To identify something as tonal, you need to know it is stable and repeating. How do you do that? By looking at the signal over time, which means there is going to be a delay before you can pass audio.

      We’ve had some thoughts about how to reduce this latency, but don’t have a timeline on when that might happen.

    • #163502
      kharmeleon
      Participant

      A way around this issue is to use split EQ to process tracks in a separate project with no other plugins. This is just good practice anyway, especially for something CPU intensive plugins that are shaping your sounds having them on all the time will mess with the mix it feels like. It is pretty cool however having multiple splitteqs and then balancing tones and . Using it for a general eq is overkill a lot of the time you could use a really low latency program.

      Serato studio handled it pretty well. I had 3 running before opening Ableton and being confused by the lag but my master sounded a bit different after final track was processed. It still did pretty well at the time I was unaware of the issue.

      I was thinking a separate app by eventide that is simply this eq that you could use on an iPad or second PC with a send return if you wanted a live eq.

      Then maybe an option for a static eq you can apply to audio files and it processes the file , gives you a sample of what it sounds like and you can work outside of live editing. so that the plugin doesn’t have to actually be running all the time

      Another option for animating an eq over an audio file

      This is a really good eq for shaping sound and hopefully overtime it will get less of a problem as technology improves there’s some crazy potential.

      So yeh use it to shape sounds and record them then go back to your regular EQs is how i will use it until I have a computer that can handle it

      I am on an older CPU mac so anyone with a new mac with an m1 chip gives some feedback.

      this is speculation and i am not sure if this helped but It would be pretty funny if it did. I rarely use a swing or quantize and have low attack most of the time and so if additional lag was applied it would sound the same as if I dialled the attack way back and made sure there was no swing or grid affecting your track

       

    • #163504
      kharmeleon
      Participant

      A way around this issue is to use split EQ to process tracks in a separate project with no other plugins. This is just good practice anyway, especially for CPU intensive plugins that are shaping sounds. having them on all the time can mess with the mix overall it feels like it’s just a good idea to record it once the sounds are just right. . It is pretty cool however having multiple splitteqs and then balancing tones across tracks for mixing effects previously not possible. Especially where there is phasing.

      Using it for a general eq is overkill a lot of the time you could use a really low latency program that doesn’t have all these great distractions that could take you away from your simple task for god knows how long.

      Serato studio handled it pretty well. I had 3 running before opening Ableton and was confused by the lag but my master sounded a bit different after the final track was processed. It still did pretty well at the time I was unaware of the issue I just thought Serato Studio was still teething.

      I was thinking of a separate app by eventide that is simply this eq that you could use on an iPad or second computer or even a smartphone with a send return if you wanted a live eq. The Ipad would be pretty great for mixing too.

      You could also maybe add an option for a static eq you can apply to audio files and it processes the file, gives you a sample of what it sounds like and you can work outside of live editing. so that the plugin doesn’t have to actually be running all the time processing the tracks over and over.

      Another cool option for animating an eq over an audio file with automation lane or you can do a manual eq “take” with that file alone. Even outside of a DAW would be useful.

      This is a really good eq for shaping the sound and hopefully, over time, it will get less of a problem as technology improves there’s some crazy potential

      I have found it better to use it to shape sounds and record them than go back to your low latency EQs for live editing

      I am on an older CPU mac so if anyone with a new mac that has an m1 chip could give feedback on the performance I am curious to see if i can run a couple split eqs n a new machine.

      this is speculation and I am not sure if this helped but It would be pretty funny if it did. I rarely use a swing or quantize and have low attack most of the time and so if additional lag was applied it would sound the same as if I dialled the attack way back and made sure there was no swing or grid affecting your track

    • #163508
      simonja
      Participant

      I’m using latest Logic on M1 and there’s plenty of latency. It makes MIDI software instruments unusable. I’ve stopped using Split EQ. It sounds great and has excellent presets but in production the latency is too difficult to work around. Yes, I could use track alternatives but that’s not what I expect from a plug-in. There are other ways to achieve a similar result. I’ll come back once they solve the latency issue, perhaps with a look-ahead feature or similar. I’m disappointed in the people that hyped this product. Latency is never mentioned. Poor form.

      • #164153
        Fender17
        Participant

        Look ahead is exactly what SplitEQ uses. And it inevitably introduces latency, if one looks 20ms ahead, latency must be at least 20ms by mathematical laws. There is no one in the whole Universe to beat it, unless one has means to travel in time.

    • #163665
      ddrumdude
      Participant

      Unfortunately I am also finding that Split EQ is very CPU intensive. Have Eventide thought about making a hardware version of it? Would certainly help solve this issue, since it is an amazing plug in when it works.

    • #164154
      sergical
      Participant

      I am an Eventide user way before their plugins.

      Did many big records with Eventide gear and now Eventide Plugins.

      We’re telling you, y’all should work on the latency issue.

      I understand you need it to look ahead.

      Give us the option to turn it on or off, like other plugins run on a low latency mode.

      thanks.

       

      • #164160
        Fender17
        Participant

        Wanting to have a car with rectangular wheels? Interesting, but it does not work. If one needs to split, one needs look ahead and so latency…. Without look ahead no split…. How should SplitEQ work without functional split?

    • #164161
      salvodaze
      Participant

      My REAL problem is that SplitEQ doesn’t just introduce latency to the track it is on  it makes it impossible to do a recording take on any armed track while there is even 1 instance of SplitEQ anywhere else in the project which terribly hinders my workflow. This is on Ableton Live 11 and I have never encountered this issue with a plugin before, let alone a pretty pricey one from a brand I trust.

    • #164162
      simonja
      Participant

      Salvodaze says it well. I work on Logic Pro X. If the plugin introduced latency just on the track it was added to I could possibly work around that. But as soon as SplitEQ is added anywhere in the project all tracks start displaying unworkable amounts of latency. SplitEQ might work in a mixing or mastering environment where latency is not such an issue, but in editing and production it’s frustrating and creates more problems than it solves. I don’t use SplitEQ anymore and remove it from all the older projects in my queue. That saves time and I can achieve a similar effect with other tools. I watched several reviews of SplitEQ before I bought SplitEQ and not one mentioned this issue which seems a glaring omission.

      • #164167
        Fender17
        Participant

        If you switch latency compensation off in your DAW, SplitEQ latency would be only on track where it is placed. But it could introduce another problems depending on what plugins and how do you use on other tracks….

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