Strymon Cloudburst ensemble effect on H90?

[NecroBemis]

Looking to save the price of a Cloudburst after just springing for an H90 (!). Any suggestions on how to get that awesome string ensemble effect? Thanks.

[brock]

Depends.  If those auto-responsive dynamics & continuous signal analysis are important to you, then maybe not.  You can easily simulate all of that with an expression pedal.  Any of the ‘huge’ reverbs will get you close.  Most, if not all H90 reverbs, feature gigantic decay times and Infinite / Freeze.

I like using DynaVerb’s Omnipressor mode up front, for the slower attack.  And the H90 Shimmer algorithm doesn’t necessarily have to ‘shimmer’.

Maybe this will give you a head start:

https://patchstorage.com/fortissimo-crescendo/

But again, experiment with all of the reverbs.  They all bring different flavors and a unique feature set to the table.  As one example, DualVerb.

[NecroBemis]

Thanks. So then how do I use the .pgm9 file you created?

[brock]

If you check the comments under ‘Patch download questions’ (right above that Fortissimo link), there are a couple of options explained, along with an image attachment.

[NecroBemis]

Right on 🙂

[sigitar]

I’m also interested in the topic and would like to try brock’s pgm-file. However, I only find the possibility to import presets.
pgm files are greyed out. How can I import whole programs with H90?

[NecroBemis]

Hit that link above. You should see a big, blue Download button on the right. Hit that.

[sigitar]

The download was no problem. 😉
How to import the pgm(!)-download challenged me. I found the way to import presets (at the three vertical dots), but not how to import pgm-files.
First. Now I’ve already discovered it… simply a right-click… Sometimes you can’t see the forest for the trees.
Is there an easy way to convert insert-mode programs to dual-mode?

[NecroBemis]

Well you’ve stumped me. Hit up brock (above). He should have an answer.

[brock]

sigitar wrote:

… Is there an easy way to convert insert-mode programs to dual-mode?

With Factory Programs, the H90 simply loads alternate sets for Dual Mode.  If you mean this particular Fortissimo Program (or any download), then you’re going to have to put in the work:

• Switch to Insert Mode, Confirm, and Import the Program.
• Save To Library (3 vertical dots) on both the A and the B sides (Fortissimo DynaVerb and Fortissimo Shimmer).
• Switch back over to Dual Mode, and Confirm.
• Select any INIT Program from one of the new User Lists.
• Go to the Preset Library tab at the bottom, and find Fortissimo DynaVerb for the A Preset, and Fortissimo Shimmer for the B Preset.
• Go to the Routing tab at the bottom, and in Path 1 (or Path 2; whatever you prefer), put the A & B Presets in Parallel.
• Name & save the dual-mode version of the  Program.

The expression pedal and HotKnob mappings will remain intact.  You will lose any Performance Parameter and any HotSwitch mappings in the original.  Effectively, you are creating a new Program.

[peaceonu]

I recently watched a video of a cloudburt and was very impressed. All the algorithms were amazing
On the other hand, I think my H90 is full of weird sounds that are too useless even with the super cool algorithms

I was very embarrassed to see myself contemplating whether I should buy Cloudburst even though I already have such expensive H90.
I think H90’s preset design should be upgraded in order to reassure users like me who envy cloudburst, which is less than one-third the price of the H90.

[NecroBemis]

In fairness, the Cloudburst features a couple of algos, whereas the H90 has 62. So algo to algo ratio is 20 to 1 and the price is 3 to 1. Still a deal in my book.

And there may yet be some combo of shimmer and pitchfactor that I have yet to discover that matches the Cloudburst Ensemble algo, who knows?

 

[ndeshpande]

Eventide’s reverb dev here. Here’s a few hints on tweaking H90 algs to squeeze a bit more out of your reverbs.

The thesis statement of everything I have to say is: experiment more with pre-delay and feedback.

The suggestion of Shimmer is a good one, especially with the pitch shifters set off or closer to 0 cents. Cranking delay to settings around 125-300 ms and pushing the feedback knob creates some smoother echo density build-ups. Combine this with the size setting in the lower-mid range of the knob, and you’ll find some reverbs that bloom pretty nicely.

Blackhole is another dark horse for this sort of task. Inverse gravity, size around medium, pre-delay again around 125-300 ms, feedback to taste to control how intense the echo build up is. The modulation section of blackhole is pretty powerful for the timbre, too; I like to think of these controls as depth controlling the brightness of the reverb (higher depth = darker reverb), and rate changing between subtle darkening on the lower side of the knob to seasick at the higher end of the knob. There’s more to be found in Blackhole than just galactic sized reverb.

Pro user mode is running two Blackholes into each other: the first set on the shorter side with small size and inverse gravity to soften the signal, then a second one set for your “main reverb tone”. This also works if you run the shorter Blackhole into a ModEchoVerb with the echo turned off.

[ndeshpande]

I also forgot to mention: dual verb. Set one to be a short, quick burst; set the other to be longer and smoother in its decay.

[NecroBemis]

Thank you sir!

[NecroBemis]

One question: You refer to delay and pre-delay settings in Blackhole & Shimmer in terms of ms, whereas in the H90 Control interface, those nobs read as 1/64, 1/32, 1/16 etc. Is there something else I need to tweak?

[ndeshpande]

You can do one of two things:

1. The hard way: tap in a tempo then do all the math to figure out what subdivision would get you in the ballpark of ranges I suggest
2. The easy way: turn off tempo sync, instructions for how to do that can be found at https://cdn.eventideaudio.com/manuals/h90/1.3.0/content/edit-modes/parameters.html#tempo-sync

[NecroBemis]

Right on, thanks.

[brock]

Great information in this thread, from the source.  And not only applicable to cloud bursting.

[peaceonu]

First of all, thanks to Necro Bemis for starting such a great topic.
It seems that many companies are pouring out a lot of very impressive spatial pedals these days. In particular, the sound of walrus audio’s Fable delay surprised me.
Do you have any plans to design and distribute presets like Cloud Burst’s reverb and delay above? I think there are too many strange presets among the H90’s built-in presets that I really don’t know where to use them. Of course, using the tips provided above, users can try to make it, but I think it will take too much time. I would be very grateful if you could do that.

[ndeshpande]

I myself am not involved in preset creation, I’ll forward your request to our preset creation team and ask them to chime in. I know this wasn’t your intent, but I think the perspective you are suggesting – in your words, “H90 is full of weird sounds that are too useless” – does a disservice to the extremely hard work my colleagues have done. The factory programs on H90 are designed to introduce you to workflow and features. The factory default programs are not an exhaustive list of what is possible with H90, they are merely a taste of what you can find inside of it. And just because you have all that horsepower on hand doesn’t mean you have to be using all the bells and whistles, all of the time. In fact, my most-used H90 preset at home is the Tape Echo algorithm (from Time Factor) on its own, in mono. This is all to say, I think the built-in factory programs may not offer what you are expecting of them.

I would like to point you to the Algorithm Guide in the H90 manual. In addition to descriptions of the sounds you can find in each algorithm and what the controls are doing, there are MANY sounds and presets we’ve created for the Factors and H9 that may have some of what you’re seeking, and you can access these on your H90 through the Preset Menu (and also in H90 Control’s Preset Library). I think these presets contain what you are seeking from the pedal; they span the range from bread-and-butter classics to pushing algorithms to their extremes… but you won’t know what’s in there or know how to quickly manipulate algorithms to do what you want them to do until you explore these pages and your H90 a bit more.

[brock]

Well put.  The tools are there to create almost anything you can dream up.

[peaceonu]

I know this can be a quite rude. Nevertheless, I admire Eventide’s customer management spirit for replying.
I am very sorry that the preset creation team will be heartbroken.
First of all, my purpose is to ask the preset creation team to add more useful sounds to the presets that users can use right away.
Of course, the intention of the presets has to be focused on showing the potential of the H90. However, from the customer’s point of view, I don’t think it is necessary to make all of the numerous presets that way. Wouldn’t it be important to make some of them beautiful enough to be used right away? Or Why don’t you continuously upload tips videos on YouTube? Since I bought the H90, I search for H90 related videos on YouTube every morning to get some ideas of H90 thread. I’ve already watched all the H90-related videos on YouTube in English, but I haven’t seen any videos that shows how to make similar sounds like Cloud Burst’s ensemble sound or Walrus’f Fable granular delay.
Obviously this is something I can’t do, not that the H90 can’t make that sound.

H90 is definitely an amazing product, but I’m still not quite sure how to use it. Isn’t it time for the preset creation team to step in?

Thank you again

[dlochens]

I agree, I’ve followed all the tips I’ve read out there, tried a few different hall settings with various eq/mod settings. Plus black hole, modecho etc. the Unit is so good! But i feel like a few settings out of the box that emulated Cloud and a few full-wet sounds would sell so many h90’s.

I can get close, but my Strymon/GFI stuff does it effortlessly – this thing definitely he’s the ability – but I think it needs tweaking at a dev level.

[mjahoger]

Has anyone tried combining the new Polysynth algorithm with the Blackhole or Wormhole reverbs? I have a Meris LVX in the stereo loop of the H90 and can therefore have a dry signal in parallel and can get nice Cloudburst like sounds. I don’t have a Cloudburst so dialing it to sound identical will be quite hard using just YouTube videos. Maybe someone has one and can chime in what settings will get close to the Cloudburst?

[cliveluis]

why dont you just buy cloudburst? thats strymon’s party trick , just like blackhole is Eventide’s

i had the strymon big sky , i just could not get the ensemble effect to sound the same using other pitch shifting pedals

i am on other forums, wherein members are trying emulate blackhole with strymon and other effects

but really not the same

you are paying the company for their ear and well curated sounds so we don’t have to spend hours dialling the sounds

[NecroBemis]

cliveluis wrote:

why dont you just buy cloudburst? thats strymon’s party trick , just like blackhole is Eventide’s i had the strymon big sky , i just could not get the ensemble effect to sound the same using other pitch shifting pedals i am on other forums, wherein members are trying emulate blackhole with strymon and other effects but really not the same you are paying the company for their ear and well curated sounds so we don’t have to spend hours dialling the sounds

It may surprise you to hear it, but I’ve already done so. Fairly soon after my original post, in fact, I acquired a Cloudburst. I rapidly came to the same conclusion as you. BTW, I had purchased a SPACE pedal (some time before the advent of the Blackhole pedal) due to a similar awareness.

I like your phrase, “party trick” but why not get more grandiose, something like “master stroke” or “ne plus ultra”? 😉

 

[njdelyster]

ndeshpande wrote:

Eventide’s reverb dev here. Here’s a few hints on tweaking H90 algs to squeeze a bit more out of your reverbs. The thesis statement of everything I have to say is: experiment more with pre-delay and feedback. The suggestion of Shimmer is a good one, especially with the pitch shifters set off or closer to 0 cents. Cranking delay to settings around 125-300 ms and pushing the feedback knob creates some smoother echo density build-ups. Combine this with the size setting in the lower-mid range of the knob, and you’ll find some reverbs that bloom pretty nicely. Blackhole is another dark horse for this sort of task. Inverse gravity, size around medium, pre-delay again around 125-300 ms, feedback to taste to control how intense the echo build up is. The modulation section of blackhole is pretty powerful for the timbre, too; I like to think of these controls as depth controlling the brightness of the reverb (higher depth = darker reverb), and rate changing between subtle darkening on the lower side of the knob to seasick at the higher end of the knob. There’s more to be found in Blackhole than just galactic sized reverb. Pro user mode is running two Blackholes into each other: the first set on the shorter side with small size and inverse gravity to soften the signal, then a second one set for your “main reverb tone”. This also works if you run the shorter Blackhole into a ModEchoVerb with the echo turned off.

This is the masterclass on approaching Eventide’s Reverb algorithms! They can be just as lush, textural, and ambient as other contenders in this space and the flexibility lets you really customise it to your use case. They are a different flavour, which is a positive for my case, and take a bit to navigate but once you have a few presets dialled in you’re set.

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