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September 20, 2008 at 12:17 am #105838pdoudsMember
anyone using the tf and modfactor linked togther via midi? I have an axess midi controller, but am considering just using the tf as my midi controller in to the mf, and an aux switch to jump up and down banks. are there any drawbacks to just using an eventide stombox as a controller instead of a dedicated midi controller?
September 22, 2008 at 4:10 pm #117873achaputModerator
One of the very useful features of Eventide Stompboxes is that they can transmit MIDI Program Change and MIDI Continuous Controller messages. This means that in addition to having great sounding effects, they are also MIDI footpedals that you can use to control your entire rig. Since they have MIDI Program Maps for both transmitting and receiving presets, you can select exactly which sounds will load on all your gear when you press the Preset footswitches.
One disadvantage might be that you won't have as many buttons as the axess. However if you don't need that many buttons at once for accessing presets, then you can leave the axess home.
Try it out and let us know what you think.
September 23, 2008 at 1:15 am #117874pdoudsMember
i must be dense. i can't seem to transmit a cc message where the modfactor is in bypass while the tf is on. i haven't worked with midi for years, though. do you have to just program an empty patch, or can you automatically send a command for a certain patch to bypass the unit on a certain preset?
September 23, 2008 at 6:18 pm #129033achaputModerator
Yes that would be another current disadvantage; presently you can only call up a preset as "Active" via MIDI. This is something that other users have pointed out and we are addressing this in the next software update.
A current workaround would be as you mentioned, to save a preset as "dry, " ie with all knobs fully counter-clockwise (on ModFactor use the Tremelo Effect.)
Another thing to consider is that you can use one aux switch with a "Y" adapter to bypass both stompboxes at once.
September 25, 2008 at 12:25 am #129040pdoudsMember
ok, thanks for the info. i tried it on the chorus setting and it sounded weird. I'll try it on the tremelo.
September 26, 2008 at 9:42 pm #117888grovestMember
I have the two connected with midi and it basically works great. And like you suggest, I am even using the TF as a compact midi switch to send program changes to both the MF and the Axess GRX4 loop switcher. This is pretty slick with the addition of a simple aux button to give me four foot switches ("program a" "program b" "bank up" "bank down"). So far I haven't needed a dedicated midi foot switch but depending on how many and the configuration of my presets, it may become necessary. Below is a kind of rambling post I made to another forum about connecting the two pedals. By the way, it's great to see the bypass idea could show up in a future firmware.
"I'd like to share what I've found regarding the Eventide pedals'
control and integration capabilities. For those that don't know, these
are digital delay and modulation pedals with expression pedal, 3-aux
switch, and MIDI support.
The pedals have an intuitive program change map that defaults to patch
1:1-> pgm 0; 1:2 -> pgm 1; 2:1 -> pgm 2, etc up to 20:2 ->
pgm 39. Because of this, all that's necessary are two or three tweaks
from 'out of the box' (turn on midi program changes, turn on midi
output) and the second Factor will change patches in parity to the
first Factor. That being said, both the transmit map and receive map
are completely customizable, and my concept at the moment is to have 4
or 5 delay patches that will sync with 2 or 3 modulation patches. You
can assign the same program change to multiple patches, so that the MF
could use patch 12:1 when the TF changes to either 8:2 or 15:1, etc.
Moving from program changes to continuous control, all of the knobs and
optionally, the expression pedal, can generate cc messages on a
user-assignable ID. You could use a Factor pedal to control audio
Show More...software on your PC (the Factors can interface with your PC via DIN 5Show Less...
or USB MIDI). I've tested this with MIDI-OX and it's more or less plug
and play. More interestingly, the "second" Factor pedal can assign
incoming CC changes to any of its own knobs. I've tested this will all
the assignable knobs, and it works fine. Here is an example: I set the
'mix' knob on the TF to program a CC that, on the MF, I map to the
'intensity' knob. So as the mix gets wetter on the delay, the
modulation gets more "intense". More than one knob can be mapped to the
same CC, however there is a GUI issue where the receiving pedal seems
to only display the new value of the highest-id knob that was changed,
but I definitely hear both of the assigned knobs' value being changed.
Either or both pedal could have an expression pedal or 3 button aux
switch plugged in. For my purposes, I'm only using one exp pedal and
aux switch. The expression pedal can be assigned to one or many of the
knobs- and not just 0 – 100, but to a custom range, including some
knobs turning 'up' and others turning 'down' in the same motion. I do
agree with some of the user reviews online that it is a little
cumbersome to program the exp pedal (especially to 'remove' it from
assigned knobs). If Eventide could have just put a little 'clear / set'
button somewhere out of the way, certain programming, like the pedal,
would be a little easier. The pedal will even encode the exp. pedal
with MIDI CC messages– which, yes can be mapped on the receiving
Factor pedal as well to allow the exp pedal to control very different
mappings on each pedal simultaneously.
I did find a niggle with the exp pedal and MIDI assignments. Let's say
I've programmed knob 1 on the sender Factor to manipulate knob 1 on the
receiver Factor. When I turn knob 1 on the sender there is a 1:1 update
on the receiver's knob 1 (or other midi-cc assigned knobs)- no sweat.
BUT, now let's say I assign the exp pedal to a range of values on the
sender's knob 1. When I move the exp pedal (connected to the sender
Factor), the sender knob 1 values update just as expected, but knob 1
on the receiver does not change- rather, the parameters assigned to the
receiver's patch's exp pedal CC ID change instead. I'd have to think
for a while before deciding that this is a smart move on Eventide's
part or just an oversight.
The Aux switch input accepts any of the three combinations of Tip, Ring
or Ring+Tip. Using a mono cable and a paper clip, what you'll create
are Ring+Tip inputs. The aux switch can be assigned to the parameters
you'd guess… looper start (TF), brake (MF), bypass on, tap tempo,
bank up / down, and a few more and I've tested most of these and they
work fine. Smartly, the AUX switch can be setup to just duplicate the
three built in functions- I imagine for use in a situation where the TF
is racked or on a shelf for you to control live. Something I wouldn't
have expected but find intriguing is that an aux switch can be assigned
to a knob to set a min and max value. I tested this by assigning my aux
switch 1 to knob 1 (delay mix), with 10:2 as the min and 2:10 as the
max. The TimeFactor is a dual delay, so with that example I can switch
between primarily delay A and primarily delay B to create a kind of
"sub patch". While the exp. assignments are unique to each patch, the
aux switch settings seem global, although multiple actions can be
assigned to the same switch inputs (T, R, and T+R).
And, much like the exp. pedal, when I assigned the aux switch to toggle
between two values of a particular knob on the sender Factor, and I
then mapped that knob to a knob on the receiver Factor with MIDI CC,
the receiving knob does not change when the sending knob's parameter is
manipulated with the Aux switch.
Another feature I haven't been able to make work is MIDI clock syncing
between these two pedals. I was able to sync a drum machine with the
TF, and that was elementary. But there too I did find something a
little quirky: Let's say the looper is in 'beat' mode (i.e. tempo is
flashing on the TF and time elapsed is described as beats, etc). In
such a case, I was able to sync the beat display from a drum machine,
but found that the record start / stop / and play events on the TF
didn't align with the drum clock. It seems like it would be so easy for
the TF to make the loop start and stop at the next 'beat' after button
press, but this could be a bad assumption.
Since I have almost no experience with other effect pedals, I'm not in
a good position to review the actual sound these make… though they
sound great to me."
September 29, 2008 at 7:08 am #117890Burger666Member
Grovest, thanks for a great MIDI tutorial and round-up. There's hope for us old-schoolers yet. 🙂 Now, my big question is, where does one find a nice, short, flat and right-angled MIDI cable? This is something that will come in handy on ye olde pedal board that is always short of space. Any ideas?
October 1, 2008 at 4:10 am #117900grovestMember
I've come across another "thing" (quirk? careful design decision? bug?) interfacing the two pedals. It's similar to the issue of the aux switch / exp pedal being connected to factor A and how factor B responds to the aux switch / exp pedal.
My desire was to program the Timefactor to send program change messages to the Modfactor, and then the Mod in turn send its own program changes to a third device. I am able to program the Modfactor to call up a given patch based on patch changes from the Timefactor. Really that part works great, and is very fast. The issue is, imagine the Timefactor sends a program message X that the Modfactor maps to patch 2:1, and imagine the Modfactor has a xmit map on patch 2:1 to send out pgm change Y. If I call up 2:1 on the Modfactor with its own footswitches, the pgm change Y is transmitted out the MF. If I "call up" preset 2:1 on the Modfactor by sending pgm change X from the TF, the pgm Y message never leaves the Modfactor.
It's like the "event" the xmit map is tied to isn't a change in the active patch but is the process or pressing a given foot switch on a particular bank. (or similarly, the "event" the knob CC changes are triggered on isn't a change in an internal "kb 1 register" as much as it is turning the physical knob)
edit: by the way Burger, I couldn't find a great low profile right angle midi cable. I ended up ordering a couple 3' right angles from Hosa at Sweetwater.
October 8, 2008 at 3:53 pm #129088achaputModerator
What you'd want to do in this case is set the ModFactor's MIDI Out Port to "Thru." This can be done from the MIDI menu in System Mode.
That way, ModFactor will pass along the Program Change messages sent from TimeFactor through to the next MIDI device in the chain. Any additional MIDI devices after that should also be connected via a MIDI "thru" port if you want them to respond to TimeFactor's Program Change messages.
October 28, 2008 at 5:27 am #129128grovestMember
Hey Alan, thanks for responding. I thought through what I want to accomplish and in the end realized what I needed was controller for the two Factors that can send different messages on different midi channels simultaneously- and problem solved. Now I would describe what I see on the Factors as much less than a bug, since my desire was probably an extreme edge case. I also want to amend my observations about syncing between the TF and an Alesis SR18. I had the same issues using other gear as master clocks for the drum machine- it is not a TF issue. These pedals are great! I do find it interesting that one of the greatest strengths of the Factors, "controlability" (for lack of a better word- foot switches and midi support) is also one of the greatest sources of posts on this board. Since I'm posting I'll go ahead and testify to the incredible tripping-out experience I had with the Modfactor when I first used the input envelope modulation setting with all the different modes- super wild with flanger and phaser.
November 6, 2008 at 1:33 pm #129143bitbucketMember
How do you sync the two pedals together? The timefactor does not seem to transmit midi clock. Does the modfactor transmit?
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