TimeFactor Echorec settings?

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    • #108772
      PaoloSMN
      Participant

      hello, I would like to know what are the suggested TF settings to achieve a echorec-gilmourish type of delay and if it's possible to get close to a univibe type of modulation with this wonderful machine… thanks in advance!

    • #123465
      achaput
      Moderator

      The newest software version of TimeFactor has presets from Roger Waters' The Wall. For more info click here.

      Also, have you tried Factory Preset 2:2 -"Bridge of Sighs"?

    • #127056
      davidkaeser
      Participant

      Hello 🙂

      Try this : 

      Timefactor Patch : Binson Slow Arpeggios

      Algorithm : VINTAGEDELAY

      Mix : 40 

      Dly Mix : A10 + B0

      Dly Time A : 310

      Dly Time B : 0

      Fdbk A : 89

      Fdbk B : 0

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      Xnob : 14

      Depth : 5

      Speed : 1.50

      Filter : 89

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    • #138083
      squatch
      Member

      Thanks Dave, that Binson patch is a nice one

      My first replacement of a patch on my TF..works well!

      Cheers, squatch

    • #138084
      davidkaeser
      Participant

      Glad you like it ! Thank you and have a nice day !

    • #138087
      brock
      Participant

      davidkaeser:

      Hello 🙂

      Try this : 

      Timefactor Patch : Binson Slow Arpeggios

      Algorithm : VINTAGEDELAY

      Mix : 40 

      Dly Mix : A10 + B0

      Dly Time A : 310

      Dly Time B : 0

      Fdbk A : 89

      Show More...

      Fdbk B : 0

      Xnob : 14

      Depth : 5

      Speed : 1.50

      Filter : 89

      I just plugged in the numbers for a stereo version of this.  Good job with the filtering, bit reduction, and modulation.  It captures that vintage rotating drum feeling.  That's exactly what's missing with recreating an Echorec in some of the other algorithms.

      I've done some Binson presets with QuadraVox.  You can't get the 'Swell' function repeats without another delay following it.  But there are advantages in the ability to create the 4 playback head spacing & the head selection variations.  I think that your preset here – following one of my own – might be just the ticket.

      My latest focus is on the Resonator algorithm.  Four head selections and two options for regeneration on the 'Swell'.  No modulation, but room for experimentation on the filtering effects.  When the Resonance is zero, the 4 'notes' still control high and low pass filtering.

      One good thing about Echorec emulations in any of these algorithms is the ability to go far beyond Binson maximum delay times (and also past the Catalinbread Echorec 1000 ms. maximum).  I've been slapping together a chart to match the both the Binson & Catalinbread head switch options against the Eventide versions that use Rhythm or Delay Group spacing.

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  • #138088
    davidkaeser
    Participant

    Hello 🙂

    I would be an happy guy if you could share your settings 😉

    Have a nice day !

    David

  • #138093
    brock
    Participant

    Here's one that I was referring to earlier from the PitchFactor Presets: Other Effects thread.  I'll add some proper screenshots for the QuadraVox variations and Resonator experiments when I get them all together.

    Quote:

    BinsonEchorec+

    Mix = WET: 50

    Pitch Mix = A10+B10

    Pitch A = A:  UNISON

    Pitch B = B:  UNISON

    Delay A = D: 310 ms.

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    Delay B = . A . B . C . D

    (encoder) = QUADVOX / TMP: OFF

    Depth / Key = (any)  N/A

    Speed / Scale = (any) N/A

    Xnob = C:  UNISON

    Ynob = D:  UNISON

     

    (EXP PED Heel) = D:  310 ms.

    (EXP PED Toe) = D= 1240 ms.

     

    Nothing earth-shattering here.  This is simply my nod to one of the settings in the classic magnetic drum echo unit.  The Quadravox algorithm doesn't provide for any feedback, but that's something you can derive from a downstream delay pedal.  It does allow for useful spacing between delays, and here, the four 'playback heads' are equally spaced.

    Expression Pedal:

    The pedal is set up to quadruple the maximum delay time of the original (Toe position).  For the adventurous, add Pitch A, B, C, & D to – 1 oct or – 2 oct., for a pitch-shifting 'tape stop' effect.  As the delay time gets longer, the pitch of all four voices will drop along with it.

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  • #138106
    davidkaeser
    Participant

    Thanks !!! 🙂

  • #138111
    st.bede
    Member

    Thanks brock, some of your PF presets have been extremely useful for me.

  • #138113
    brock
    Participant

    Here is the BinsonEchorec+ base preset from the QuadraVox algorithm in a graphical format; complete with expression pedal mapping from 310 ms. to 1280 ms.  Be aware that there's a crossfade here when sweeping among the Delay D times.

     


    And here is David Kaeser's Binson Slow Arpeggios preset in a screenshot from the Vintage Delay algorithm.  I follow my BinsonEchorec+ preset with this one (converted to a stereo version) in a downstream H9.  The combination has an interesting vintage 'sweep' that the QuadraVox can't produce.

      


    The following Resonator preset is the equivalent of the BinsonEchorec+ preset above, with a couple of important differences.  In the EchorecSwellMids preset, the 'sweep' feedback to the 4 'playback heads' is already built in.  And the high and low pass filters of the four Note values are set for midrange-y delay on all four 'heads'.

    For a darker set of echoes, shift all four Notes down around C3.  For brighter delays, bring all four Notes up near B5.  Notice that the Resonance is neutral at 0.  You don't really hear it as resonant delay 'notes', but the filters on the delay times are still active.

      

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    Here's an example of the Resonator filters sweeping upward on each 4-delay cycle.  The 4 Notes are progressively set to C#3, C4, C5, and B5.  It's easier to hear with a 'Catalinbread' Echorec maximum delay time of 1000 milliseconds.

    This EchorecFiltSweep preset still keeps the four equally-spaced playback heads with the same amount of regenerated 'sweep'.  But the longer delay time spaces the delays out to 250, 500, 750, and 1000 ms.  And each filter is set for progressively brighter delays that recirculate in a cycle.

      


    The E-RecChaosRhythm preset below combines many of the Resonator features for a customized Echorec simulation.  This one is sync'ed to MIDI Clock, but remains with the 4 equal playback heads active.  A moderate Feedback 2 setting disintegrates the delay cycling as it progresses.  This Echorec needs to go in for a service alignment.

    As a demonstration, I added a slight amount of positive Resonance to accentuate the downward filter sequencing.  But the chaotic Feedback 2 is even more obvious and 'natural' with a Resonance setting of 0.

    A useful variation is to set either Feedback option wherever you want it, and then 'HotSwitch' the Feedback to the FREEZE position.  It's an easy way to lock your feedback cycle into a loop, then fade it out when it's no longer needed.

     


    So, I still haven't completed the Catalinbread & Binson Echorec chart yet with equivalent Eventide settings, but it's coming soon enough.  That's something that I'd like available myself for comparing 'active playback head' combinations at a glance.

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  • #138127
    davidkaeser
    Participant

    Fantastic post Brock ! Thanks so much ! I'm ready for those Catalina's patches ! Thanks again !

  • #138143
    brock
    Participant

    davidkaeser:

    Fantastic post Brock ! Thanks so much ! I'm ready for those Catalina's patches ! Thanks again !

    Country French with Orange Blossom Honey, or classic blend Catalina dressing? 😉

    See if this loads for you: QuadraVox Presets for Binson & Catalinbread Echorecs.  It's the Preset List from the current H9 Control version; not individual presets.  I've had trouble with Win 8.1 here, and I'm still not 100% sure how this all works across systems.

    If the download doesn't play nicely, let me know, and I'll revert back to screenshots on a new thread.

    I started with a QuadraVox emulation of both the Binson and Catalinbread Echorecs.  Of course – because of the algorithm design – this will only cover the Echo Selector position; not the Repeat or Swell.  That's why I follow it with something like your Slow Arpeggios preset above.


    300 ms. (even division) on the Binson.  1000 ms. on the Catalinbread.

    12 Switch positions on the Binson.  12 Program Selector slots on the Catalinbread.

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    Catalinbread PS 01 is variable from 40-1000 ms. (expression pedal in the preset). 

    That covers the Binson SW01-SW-04 positions (and more).

    Binson SW01=75 ms. – SW02=150 ms. – SW03=225 ms. – SW04=300 ms. (approx.)

     

    Binson SW05-SW09 are covered by PS02-PS06 in the Catalinbread.

    Catalinbread PS07, PS10, and PS11 are not found in a Binson Echorec.

    Binson SW10 and SW11 are PS08 and PS09 in the Catalinbread.

     

    SW12 and PS12 are identical (four heads active – equal spacing).


    I hope that I got all of this correct, because I can't edit this post!

    I added an ALT1 preset to each emulation.  There are several ways to go about simulating four playback heads.  The easiest is using .A.B.C.D as a Delay Group, and turning the 'heads' on & off with Pitch A – D at UNISON or OFF.  Another method is to freeze some 'head' positions, and vary the Delay D time.  But you can also stack the delays, and shift 'heads' with the Delay Group (for the most part).

    That might be important in a stereo rig, because A,B,C,D ping between L&R channels.  You can also emphasize the delays by stacking them in the same 'head' position.  The alternative routes become more versatile in the Resonator Echorec emulations … which is what's coming up next.

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  • #138146
    KCStratman
    Member

    Download from dropbox just fine. Very nice work, Brock!

    I tried your presets in combo with DK's slowarp with very good results. I came up with a medium-long delay around 422-424ms that I really like, I usually kill the "reverb" on the slowarp as I am running into a third H9 with space reverb algos. I guess I need to figure out how to link two H9s to synch delay times via expression pedal (midi?). I also came up with a filter-down-sweep version of your resonator preset that has nice downward drift of tails. Can hardly wait for your next resonator batch Cool

    Also can hardly wait until they make these forum pages wider than 400 pixels so we can actually see our screenshots, I feel like we are posting on an iphone in the middle of a 27" screen!

  • #138151
    brock
    Participant

    Very useful contributions.  I probably should have split off to a new thread, as this one is growing larger than expected.  Well, the OP did ask for Echorec presets … and also the elusive Univibe that everyone lusts after.  I found the closest Univibe while messing around in the Vibrato demo, but I have some approximations in the other ModFactor & PitchFactor algorithms.

    The Resonator Echorecs … I thought that I was all set with those, but I ended up wanting more out of them.  Sure, it was easy enough to duplicate the 'head' positions, and add the Repeat and Swell variations.  But I was hoping to get a little more of the Swell 'metallic feedback' out of the Note high & low pass filters.  The ModEchoVerb with some filter adjustments does this almost perfectly.

    And it sure would've been nice to squeeze the delay time pitch bending out of the Resonator, but I'll have to look elsewhere for that.  The Resonator Echorec presets are still coming, but I have a few more tweaks and parallel explorations to get to before I'm satisfied.  They're not as good as they can be yet.

  • #138157
    brock
    Participant

    I took an unusual detour to the UltraTap algorithm for some Echorec variations.  These use the HotSwitch to select between the 300 ms. maximum delay time in the Binson, and the Catalinbread 1000 ms. maximum.  Both use the Switch 12 / Program Selector 12 position with four active heads.

    The BinCatHeadSpread preset maps the expression pedal to the Spread control.  Any value beyond 0 (midpoint of the EXP PED) squeezes the playback positions together toward Head 1 (negative) or Head 4 (positive).  It's an interesting feature that you won't find in either of the vintage or modern Echorec devices.  As a bonus, the Spread control still affects the echoes after the cycle has started.

    Another variation is the BinCat4HeadTaper preset.  Same HotSwitch action between 300 and 1000 milliseconds.  Same four head position, with the Spread neutralized.  Expression pedal control over the Taper goes from a reverse delay buildup, through 4 equal volumes at 0, and onto 'normal' decaying echoes at the positive end.  Once again, this feature is 'live' during the echo cycle.

    Of course, blurring the echoes with Slurm, Tone manipulation, Chop variations … all fair game for the 'live' expression pedal changes.  The four Echorec playback heads can be spaced a full second apart in this algorithm (plus a 1-second pre-delay).  Longer mono delay time than any other algorithm to date (except the Looper).

    And it's possible to add another 60 'playback heads' to the original design.  I realize that we're getting well past a strict Echorec emulation here.  These particular presets are more about retaining some of the original Echorec flavor … and then pushing past it into uncharted territories.

  • #138173
    Bodde
    Participant

    brock:

    I started with a QuadraVox emulation of both the Binson and Catalinbread Echorecs.  Of course – because of the algorithm design – this will only cover the Echo Selector position; not the Repeat or Swell.  That's why I follow it with something like your Slow Arpeggios preset above.

    Do you mean you are using two H9's? What is missing in the Quadravox algorithm is the feedback of the repeats.

  • #138175
    brock
    Participant

    bodde:

    Do you mean you are using two H9's? What is missing in the Quadravox algorithm is the feedback of the repeats.

    In my case, it's a PitchFactor upstream.  I've had it a long time, use a lot of pitch FX, and like the hands-on adjustments.  I used to use a ducking delay for those repeats from my Lexicon MPX1, or anything from the DD20.  Now I have an H9 at the end of the pedalboard chain for 'specialized' effects.

    Just about any delay will do in this case, though.  Set the delay time in the 2nd box as long as (or longer than) the QuadraVox Delay D, and give it some regeneration.  Sync between the 2 effects is crucial for an Echorec simulation, but dissimilar delay times have their charm, too.

    The Binson Slow Arpeggios preset above added nice, vintage quality repeats to the 'four head' QuadraVox.  You can simulate any 'head configuration' of the Echo position on an Echorec, using a single QuadraVox or UltraTap algorithm.  For the Repeat and Swell, you're going to need a 2nd delay, or the Resonator algo.

  • #140172
    mrfett
    Member

    any chance of fixing the missing screenshots? many thanks for the ones that have been shown, great stuff!

    • #140185
      brock
      Participant
      mrfett wrote:
      … any chance of fixing the missing screenshots? many thanks for the ones that have been shown, great stuff!

      I had those images up on the Eventide server.  The links for many of them got scrambled, when the updated forum software and new site layout came online.  I’m sure I have them in one of my own image storage locations.  (If not, they’ll be easy enough to reproduce.)  It’ll give me an excuse to dig up the Resonator EchoRec variations.  I can’t edit the original posts, but it shouldn’t be long before I can reply here with the M.I.A. screenshots.

  • #140192
    mrfett
    Member

    thanks so much brock!

  • #140193
    KCStratman
    Member

    Here is a preset list with Brock’s Binson and Catalinbread Echorec settings:

     

  • #140201
    brock
    Participant

    Thanks for posting that compilation, K.C.  To address the missing visual components:

    Post #11  Binson SlowArpegg – 2nd Image (preset by David Kaeser – stereo version)

     

    Post #11  EchorecSwellMids – 3rd Image

     

    Post #11  EchorecFiltSweep – 4th Image 

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    Post #11  E-RecChaosRhythm – 5th Image  

     

    Post #16  BinCat4HeadTaper – 2nd Image


    I don’t think I missed any orphaned images.  Just for kicks, here’s one of the newer presets that goes a bit beyond vintage emulation.  Binson LongSwells may be “inspired by Binson”, but it’s hand-assembled on Planet Eventide. Four stacked playback heads in Position #4, strained through an E scale over 2-1/2 octaves, sprinkled with a touch of reverb, and stirred into a blur of repeats.

    Expression Pedal Heel:  FB2:  75

    Expression Pedal Toe:   FREEZE

     

    HotSwitch OFF:  LENGTH  310 mS

    HotSwitch OFF:  RHYTHM  8.8.8.8

    HotSwitch ON:   LENGTH  1000 mS

    HotSwitch ON:   RHYTHM  2.4.6.8

    The unique part about this expression pedal mapping is not that it adds even more level into an already wet feedback routing.  FREEZE is at the extreme toe position.  So, you can use about the last eighth of your pedal travel to mix new input into the delay buffer  – OR –  You can FREEZE the current contents of the buffer, and block live input from the delay lines.  It’s a nicely dynamic performance technique.

    The HotSwitch snaps the delay time from “Binson Maximum” to “Catalinbread maximum”.  The four heads spread out to equal spacing in the RHYTHM parameter.  This will highlight the pattern degradation in FEEDBACK, plus accentuate the NOTE(x) and RESONANCE influences.

    I think that this preset illustrates a bit of the power behind the Eventide algorithms that often gets overlooked.  Complimentary blends of Expression Pedal mappings with HotSwitch parameters … your preset versatility just went up a few orders of magnitude.  We’re not even talking other onboard switches, MIDI, or auxiliary switch control.

    Just take the ability to map up to ten parameters – in any combination, range, or direction – under one foot control, plus 2 presets-in-one with the tap of a switch.  Now craft the interaction between expression pedal and HotSwitch for morphing & nested presets.

     

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  • #140202
    mrfett
    Member

    you guys rock!

  • #140208
    mrfett
    Member

    lost a LOT of time playing these presets. gorgeous stuff, many many thanks.

  • #140257
    rck
    Participant

    thanks for sharing your presets, so much I’m learning from Brock’s knowledge and application of the expression settings and the explanation of the presets, expression setttings, etc…help me a lot as well in understanding the Algos.

     

    Appreciate it fellas.

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