timefactor incorrect bpm

[Brain Cobra]

i tried finding a thread on this to no avail, i don't know if anyone has had this problem..

anyway, i've been trying to use to my timefactor to play along with pre-programmed stuff that i've sequenced on a computer, when i set the timefactor to the same bpm of the sequenced stuff, it drifts out of time pretty quickly, like the timefactor's idea of 120 bpm is slightly faster than logic's (or reason's or ableton's or whatever…)

anyone else encountered this?

[afullerton]

Just curious, are you using the hold feature when you have this problem? Also, I too have noticed that when I set my Timefactor to the same bpm on a loop track that it's slightly off. I can't remember if it's fast or slow. I usually just tap it in and save it.

[donkey]

 i just posted about this….i have noticed this as well. timefactor's tempo seems to be about 0.8-9BPM faster than what it says. iits a hassle.

[Brain Cobra]

 yeah it happens in hold mode, as well as every other mode too.

after a whole bunch of screwing around i figured that what is 130bpm to the timefactor is actually a ridiculous tempo like 131.129378192783 or something.

it's pretty annoying as it makes it pretty much useless if you want to use it with something else that has a tempo setting, like a sampler or another looper/delay.

anyway, here's hoping they fix it in the next update……

[nickrose]

It would be helpful to us if you (and others) could explain how they are using the the TF, and the arithmetic involved in discovering these precise tempo errors.

Obviously, we believe it to be correct, but this view may not be widely shared.

[afullerton]

We use a Mac with a metronome program. I don't know the model of Mac or the program. When I set the tempo on my TimeFactor to the same bpm as the Mac, it doesn't match. I'm not saying that the TimeFactor is wrong, just that they don't match up. One drummer had his own handheld metronome and tempos still didn't match. It could well be a cheesy metronome program or a problem with the Mac (or the handheld metronome). I simply tap the tempo in and things are fine. Also, when using the repeat function, you have to hit the button at the precise moment to make the repeat loop work. I've had a tough time figuring out when to hit the repeat switch. When it works, it's great. I've also found that once I have a repeat loop going, re-tapping the tempo is a delay disaster. As for precise measurements, I haven't gotten past the decimal. 😉

[nickrose]

Next question – in what way is the tempo wrong ?

Is it the displayed value wrong ?

Or, is the displayed value correct, but the resulting delays, etc are incorrect ?

Note that software generated MIDIclocks from PCs and Macs are not always accurate, due to their limited timer resolution and real-time challenges.

MIDIclock performance on TF2.0 is much better than V1.0.

[afullerton]

When we're going to use a metronome or loop, I enter the same bpm value that's set on the mac. The TimeFactor will be too fast or slow. Sorry, I don't remember if it's too fast or slow. I just tap it in with my foot, and save the bpm to the preset for the day. If I understand the question about the displayed value being wrong; I don't know. I really don't know if the displayed value is different from the actual bpm in the TF. If the mac is correct, then the TF is faulty (and vice versa). This really isn't that big of an inconvience for me. It would be nice if I could just enter the bpm and things would match. But, it's no problem to take 5 seconds and tap it in. Assuming that you've calibrated the TF display, the mac is incorrect.

[donkey]

 i am using the timefactor slaved via MIDI to an Elektron Machinedrum (i have also tried syncing it to a korg ER-1 drum machine and a Dave Smith Evolver and had the same tempo issues) The Machinedrum tempo is adjustable to .1 of a BPM. also i have slaved various instruments to the Machinedrum and not had any tempo issues. 

what i am expecting from the timefactor is that when i turn the feedback up to maximum (or close to maximum) the delays will remain perfectly in sync with the tempo of the master machine.  what actually happens is that the timefactor's tempo is slightly faster than the tempo if the master clock.

my trouble shooting process has been as follows:

-i set the tempo of the Machine drum to 120bpm and the Timefactor displays 120 also (i have tried various other tempos always with the same results)

-i make a sixteen step pattern on the machine drum with short impulses on the 1st ,5th, 9th and 13th steps and press play

-i set the delay speed of the Timefactor to 1/4 notes turn the feedback to max

-i send one impulse from the Machine drum to the Timefactor via aux send.

-the echos and the original impuls sound synced but as the machines play, the impulses gradually slide out of sync.  the echos of the timefactor run slightly faster. 

-if i increase the tempo of the machinedrum .1 of a BPM at a time, i can get the machines closer to being in sync, however at a certain point, usually after increasing the tempo of the master about 0.8 bpm, the  Timefacto's tempo "jumps" up about 1bpm and the machines go out of sync.

-also i have noticed that if i get the Timefactor almost in sync via the above process then stop and restart the master, the timefactor's tempo "jumps" about 1 BPM and is once again quite out of sync.

i hope this is helpfull

[spiraldivinity]

I second that.

The main reason I bought the TimeFactor was the ability to dial in the tempo precisely, as my drummer uses a metronome. I wanted the delays (which I use A LOT!) to be perfectly in sync with the music.

Unfortunately, when we play our songs, I can hear that the timefactor is slightly off.

I've tried it with the Image Line FL Studio software on my Sony notebook and with my drummer's Roland TD9 metronome. Both results were out of sync.

Very annoying 🙁

[spiraldivinity]

no updates to this thread?

[nickrose]

 The recently announced PitchFactor has much improved MIDIclock reception.

 If this is well received, it will be incorporated into the next MF and TF updates.

[BKK-OZ]

nickrose:

The recently announced PitchFactor has much improved MIDIclock reception.  If this is well received, it will be incorporated into the next MF and TF updates.

Well recieved you say?

I guarantee you I will buy a PitchFactor to add to my TF if you do this. 

The lack of a simple way to sync is a real weakness in the TF.

 PLEASE!

[spiraldivinity]

bump )

[Jakob]

 I got my TimeFactor three days ago and have programmed presets for our songs. My band uses Cubase for backing tracks as well as a Boss Dr Rhythm for songs without backings. I encountered the same problems. The TimeFactor is "running out of time". It's a little faster than what the BPM number says. Still not fast enough to just turn it down one BPM. Really frustrating, because this is one of the main reasons I bought it. I'm thinking about returning it, though it sounds awesome and is so beautifully complex and tweakable. I don't want to return it, but it's not perfect for me as long as it does this thing.

Please, you guys at Eventide, this is a major issue. I really appreciate that you are actually reading and responding to what users write in here. It's been asked a billion times, but a rough hint to when the next update will be released will ultimately affect my decision. 

Thank you anyway for this great product! 

[dgreer]

I've also had this problem but with the Modfactor.  It's not too gib a deal except when I'm using Tremolo, but it drifts out of time pretty quickly.  I've tried it with 3 different metronomes (a Tama Rythmwatch, a cheap Korg one and a Matrix.)  This is an issue mainly because the band I play with always runs a click.  If the song is at 140 BPM, I set the Modfactor to 140 BPM and after 10 seconds or so the tremolo is coming in on the upbeat.  Will this be addressed in an update later on?

[nickrose]

The next TimeFactor and ModFactor releases will feature improved MIDIclock performance.

BUT, be aware that MIDIclock is not totally precise, and there will always be a degree of long-term drift. It is best used to, for example, set a delay time to match a tempo.

[caveman]

Unless you use a common clock signal  there is always going to be a drift.  Even if you have two metronomes of the same brand, start them at identical times, they will eventually drift out of sync.

The only tempo issue should be whether the factor pedals are slaving properly to a steady MIDI clock, and whether the display is a a reasonably accurate approximation either the received or generated MIDI clock..

I have found the TF and PF to respond to a high degree of accuracy to a single tap tempo switch wired to both pedals, with only a minimal drift after a few minutes. ..  Haven't used either with MIDI clock yet.

[sheepforwheat]

has this major defect been fixed in the latest build?

[Gio Makyo]

Same problem here.I bought this for live use specifically because it did have MIDI clock synch, but it is really piss-poor, drifts out of time with long delay settings (feedback 85% plus) after only a few bars… I found the same problem even when setting tempo independent of MIDI, just dialing in the bpm … still the same drift, and rather quickly too, generally after 2 bars … this is especially infuriating as I had been using another company's delay which was rock solid… I like the Eventide sound, but the poor timing renders this unusable for anyone playing to clock-synch… will there be a fix for this anytime soon?

[achaput]

Did you try updating to the latest public beta release? This has MIDI Clock improvements which we hope to get into a full release soon.

[brownbathrobe]

Gio Makyo:

I had been using another company's delay which was rock solid…

I'm curious to know – what delay device were you using previously?

[sheepforwheat]

i just tried out the latest version 2.4.1[5]beta and it synch up perfectly now! I am so happy with this pedal now.  I wasn't trying to do anything with midi, I was just trying to play along to the same bpm as my sequencer (cubase). It's flawless now.

I also have found that you are able to actively tap in the tempo and continue to play with a live band without the delays skipping, stuttering and sounding horrible. I feel like i finally got my money's worth! Now on to try the new presets!

Thanks for being an awesome company who seeks to improve and maintain their product

[Gio Makyo]

I don't think it's polite to post that on the Eventide forum — pls. contact me via e-mail if you'd like to know. I will say that the Eventide sounds better; we'll see how the new Beta version works….

[Gio Makyo]

It was suggested that the Timefactor timing problems could be resolved by installing the new beta release 2.4.1 (5). This however has led to another problem. I opened the Eventide Update Utility to download the beta version, but everytime I get to the "read me" page for the beta version and click "Ok", it crashes the Update Utility app, telling me to re-launch. (And re-launcing sees the same thing again…) Thus I am unable to proceed to actually downloading the software. I am on a Mac running OS 10.5.8 — are there any know issues or fixes for this? Alternately, is there another way to download the software?

I have a live gig this weekend where I really hope to use the Timefactor… a quick reply would be greatly appreciated!

[brownbathrobe]

I can't seem to find an e-mail/PM link for you anywhere. Drop me a line at:

brownbathrobe at hotmail dot com

Thanks!

[Author]

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