Timefactor: Long Tap Tempo question

[asopaque]

Hello!  New user to a Timefactor with an Analog Endeavors 3-button AUX switch.  I’ve got the unit in Bank Mode with the AUX sucessfully controlling RPT ON, Bank Down and Tap Tempo.  However, I want to do some long Tap Tempo settings, but when I wait after the first tap, the screen reverts to the Bank (showing the name of the active delay) and when I hit the Tap button again to set the long tempo, the screen shows the already existing tap tempo setting, rather than the second tap of my ‘long’ delay that I want.

Is there any way to have the Tap Tempo screen stay active so I can enter a ‘long’ tap?

[nickrose]

Not quite sure what you mean by "Long Tap Tempo", but I'm guessing that you are trying to set a very slow tempo, and the unit is timing out. The minimum tempo the tap system will accept is about 30-40 BPM.

Given that 120 BPM is typical, if you are less than (say) 30, it assumes you have stopped tapping. It can't wait forever for the next tap, so has to make some assumptions.

 

 

 

 

[asopaque]

Yes, you are correct, I’m trying to set a very slow tempo.  My brain is thinking in milliseconds rather than BPM, but either way…

The Timefactor has 3000 ms delay time.  30bpm is a 2 sec. delay.  Let’s say I want to tap in a delay time that is 2.5 seconds, which is within the limits of the delay.

The screen reverts back to the preset name somewhere under the 2 second mark (which corresponds with your stated 30-40 bpm).

I understand that the pedal has to make assumptions, but it seems odd that you have it reverting back to preset name whilst still within the limits of the delay time.

I certainly don’t need it to tell me the preset i’m on more than I need to tap in a long delay time.

[AlwaysLittle]

If you tap 60BPM, for example, then you can set delay times to 1/2 and get “30BPM” with the half-note assigned to your intended beat.

You’re likely going to subdivide when you play, anyway.  So subdivision with tap tempo doesn’t seem like that big a deal.

But maybe I’m missing something.

 

[asopaque]

Thanks for the tip.  I played with that tonight and it’s a workaround.  What confuses me is that the pedal offers 3 seconds of delay time (20 BPM), and yet your Tap Tempo capability is lopped off to almost half of this, merely so the pedal can ‘time out’ and return you to the preset name?  For a pedal of this power, that seems weird.  Why would you hamstring your Tap Tempo capability relative to your delay time capability?  Letting the tempo screen stay active up down to 20 BPM seems logical, and then if you didn’t hit anything in that time frame (max. delay time), it would ‘assume’ you missed a tap, which would then return you to the previous tempo and preset screen.  Here it seems like the pedal is screaming at you “NO.  You are not entering a TYPICAL BPM.  SORRY (No secret handshake to get you into the 3-second range)”   I’m doing ambient work, with a predelay setting the shorter ‘tempo’, feeding into the Timefactor while  bypassed, I want to tap in a slower tempo that is a one bar of my playing, with a nice long feedback decay, then activate the delay to catch my one bar phrase into the delay line.  My phrases are under 3 seconds, but over the ‘assumption limit’, it appears.  GRRR.  thanks for the workaround suggestion!

[asopaque]

side question:  does the Tap Tempo have this same limitation via MIDI?  

[nickrose]

MIDI operation is pretty much the same, although the foot switch may be a little more precise (MIDI is a little "rubbery").

 

[camn]

Though (on the H9, at least)…with MIDI cc, or an expression pedal, you could dial the delay time to any precise delay time value in ms.

I set my delay times to my exp pedal a lot…and have full range of values.

This might be better for you..if it can be done on that pedal…since it sounds like you are trying to tap out something other than the actual song tempo. Unless your songs are at 20bpm…. Which I imagine would be excruciating 🙂

[bohan]

asopaque wrote:

Is there any way to have the Tap Tempo screen stay active so I can enter a 'long' tap?

Hi, if you turn off Tempo mode, the maximum delay time 3000 ms; if you turn on Tempo mode, the maximum delay time is still 3000 ms. Please remember that in Tempo mode you're not tapping delay time, you are tapping BPM. So if you set the tempo to 30 BPM, a delay value of 1/8 is 1s, a delay value of 1/4 is 2s, and a delay value of 1/4 dot will be 3s.

[asopaque]

Thanks for the feedback!  I will continue to ‘workaround’ this issue, but yes… I am trying to tap out a ‘measure’, rather than a BPM Tempo.

Based on the input from the last two posts, I feel that I still have a legitimate beef with this implementation.  If the maximum time is 3000ms, which equals 20BPM, then that tempo would be somewhat abnormal and “excruciating’.  Fine.  Then the logical suggested workaround is to tap in a “typical” bpm of 120, using the subdivision of 1/4 which would yield 2000ms (or 30bpm).   I can buy that.

But what if I leave tempo off, and my workflow is PURELY in Milliseconds, and i’m trying to tap out a musical ‘measure’.  We have a pedal that has a 3000ms delay time that you CANNOT tap in.  You aren’t allowed to tap in anything more than somewhere around 1700ms.  Uhhhh….OK?  You cripple almost half of your delay time, merely just to return to the name of the delay preset? Could you imagine this issue on a Boss DD-20 Giga Delay?  “Hey, we offer you 23 seconds of delay time, with the ability to tap in your delay tempo! OH, sorry, we forgot to mention….you do have 23 seconds of delay, but you can only tap up to 14 seconds.  If you don’t tap within 14 seconds, the delay assumes you forgot to tap.  SORRY.”

My ego or talent isn’t big enough to bitch any more than I already have, and I will merely work around this, or just not use the Timefactor in this specific way that I wanted to.   but seriously, this makes NO sense to me.

[Vaidas]

Same situation here. Using tap tempo, I glitch and mix short and long delay trails together.

Unfortunately, ambient loops suffer because of the inadequate tap tempo handling.

I don’t use BPMs, I use miliseconds as my count. Timefactor has 3000 ms delay time, but the best I can get with tap tempo is up to 1800 ms. And if I miss this magical mark, my tap is either considered non-existing, or worse: Timefactor just picks a shorter, random tempo of its own.

 

 

[camn]

Just for fun: here is the argument for leaving it as is:

I tap in a tempo around 120bpm, to match a song I am playing live….while I am playing a line with a cute delay.

I don’t get it perfect….or my drummer starts rushing…so 2900ms (over a measure) after my last tap..I start tapping again, now at 122bpm. Only for ONE MOMENT the H9 thinks I want a delay at 21bpm…slows down my delay to there…..then back up to 122. The crowd goes- wtf? Ha ha who am I kidding they can’t hear it.

I ~wanted~ a nice transition from 120-122bpm (a common scenario)…. But it got all weird just to allow tapping a tempo of 20bpm (an uncommon scenario)

Just a thought. Possible rationale behind only allowing typical performance values in this case.

Not that I am hatin’. If I just had to wait two measures before re-tapping…I would just adjust accordingly.

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