timefactor reverse question

[esiegel]

Hello, all:

 I'm enjoying the hell out of the timefactor, had the chance to gig with it twice since I got it, the slapback was a perfect anachronism for the performance, and also used the kind of mod/univibe sounding gurgly effect (5.2 on the defaults).  I have been messing around with it to learn my way around and am a bit stymied on the reverse effect.

Basically, what I am trying to do is get the wet sound to be the guitar reversed, one time, no echoes, feedback, etc.  

I have put everything to zero but keep getting foldback and repeat echoes.

Any tips on how to get one reverse sound and that is it?

 I am mostly using it mono, and in this case put the a/b mix all the way over to b so I can simplify the programming.  But still, I get at least one echo, kind of odd sounding.

 Thanks in advance for any advice

eric 

[IDeangelis]

 HI Eric

the reverse delay will kick in after the set amount of time. You will not hear your reversed gtr sound in real time as TF will output it according to delay time.

If feedback is set on 0% you should hear the reversed sound after the set delay time, just for one time..

Are you saying you get more than one repeat?

best

I 

[DGillespie]

Hello,

Make sure you have the Mix control set all the way wet, the delay Mix control set all the way to either A or B and the Feedback all the way down.  Then you should get just 1 reverse of whatever you play in.

Dan

[esiegel]

This is frustrating.  I have done exactly as you suggest, and I get multiple loops.

The settings are:

Reverse algorithm

Mix:  All wet

Dly Mix:  All B

Dly time A: 0

DLY  TIME B: 1/4

FBK A: 0

FBK B: 0

TEMPO ON

XNOB; 200 MS

DEPTH; DMOD=0

SPEED: 0

FILTER = 0

I get 3-4 reverse sounds. 

I am a bit mystified.  I can make a recording if it helps.

Thanks, Eric 

[houseofglass21]

 I kind of think the Reverse setting could use some work myself. It doesn't seem as responsive as some of the other reverse settings on other pedals (Line 6, Boss). It seems like it plays back what you play in a weird non-linear way, like you get a snippet of something else before you start to hear what you played backwards. It's kinda hard to explain. Also I get a rhythmic clicking sound on certain settings in time with the reverse delay.

[houseofglass21]

 The more I play with the Reverse setting the weirder it seems. Say I play a chord, it plays back reversed, then I move up the neck to another chord, it starts to play that chord in reverse, but then it cuts it off with a snippet of the previous chord coming through and then goes back into the chord you're playing. Kind of frustrating…

[IDeangelis]

 The way reverse delay works is related to its length settings. The best way the current algorithm works is to choose long delay settings and play single notes lines. It doesn't really work as a normal delay with just reverse reading. There are complex aspects in the way slices are working and these may retain audio in memory for as long as the delay time is set. We might develop different ways these functions work in time.

all the best

I 

[esiegel]

hmmm, that is weird.  It seems like eventide folks were not clear about this if you look up in this thread.  If I may ask, why doesn't it work as anyone would expect it to?  You turn down feedback to zero, you should get zero repeats, right?  Is the alternative design you have developed in response to some sort of limitation?  If not, I really would suggest you make this a logical, workable, and predictable setting or its is pretty much useless.  If you can't fix it, then perhaps you should not include the reverse setting at all. 

So far we have heard that the looper doesn't work like a dedicated looper and the reverse setting doesn't work as a normal reverse delay.  That strikes me as not great.

E 

[IDeangelis]

 Hi E

the randomness behaviour of the reverse delays in TimeFactor is the same exact aspect that has made this effect a classic from the H3000 on…in the thoudands of records you can hear this effect. It may take a while to get used to but it's definitely worth. As I said we may consider developing a different way this works, probably more similar to a normal delay.

As for the looping, yes it's not a dedicated looping device so you should not expect all the features a looper offers…pretty much like this opposite is true. A looper won't offer all the delays variety a dedicated delay does.

As you have read though, we are open to suggestions and may add/change aspects in the products. That's what a constructive advice will greatly contribute to.

Thanks

I 

[esiegel]

I replied off forum with sound files to point out the difficulty I am having with the reverse effect.

E  

[IDeangelis]

 Eric

I understand what you are referring to. As I said, this is the way the reverse currently works and you may get those snippets of late_coming sounds. We are considering creating a more "straightfoward" reverse delay in time.

thanks for the examples.

I 

[esiegel]

OK, just to update others with this problem, I sent a recording of the issue to the helpdesk, and they have forwarded it to the developers.  As far as I can tell, there is some confusion about how it is *supposed* to work.  In one post above, it is suggested by eventide that turning feedback to zero should result in only one repeat, but later the same poster from eventide says that the randomness in the behaviour is the way it is supposed to work.

 If some of you others could try it out and see if you have more predictable results, that would be helpful.  If you find it hard to work with in its current state, it would also be useful to post that here.  As always, the eventide folks are being responsive, which is great.

E 

[esiegel]

If I am the only one with this issue, I will pursue it through support, but it appears that others find that the reverse works upredictably.  If that is true of you, can you please post. Reverse is one of the reasons I bought the TimeFactor, and I have not found any useful information on how to make it work predictably.

Eric 

[Roobin]

I have to say, the glitchyness is noticeable.  It isn't what you would call a straight 'reverse delay' as in it reverses whatever you've played. I think something like this, or at least the option to implement this instead of the current reverse delay, would be very cool.Even on the reverse presets (3:2 and 6:2 I think) it works wierdly. I also tried the setting above for all wet, etc adn it was good in places, glitchy in others. I think there is a certain amount of playing style adaption involved, but the alogrithm sounds a bit odd in itself.

[drooney]

Hi Everyone,

I have been corresponding with Esiegel off line in regards to this issue and I would like to publicly clarify the function of Reverse:

The Reverse delay reverses each amount of time that has been determined by the delay amount selected at either DLY A or DLY B. If the phrase you play is longer than the delay time selected, then the entire phrase will not be reversed accordingly. What you will hear is the amount of the phrase reversed within the delay time and the residual artifacts you hear afterwards are the remaining portion of the phrase you played tacked onto the next chunk of phrase you played that gets reversed.

For example: Set the Mix knob so that the output is only for DLY A. Then select DLY A?s time for 3000ms. Play something that is shorter than 3000ms. What you hear reversed will only be the phrase you played. If you then play something longer than 3000ms, the remaining audio that extends past 3000ms is then applied to the next chunk of 3000ms that is played and then reversed.

The conclusion is that our Reverse delays by the entire setting that the current time is set for, and if you do not play in rhythm with the current delay time selected you will experience residual ?artifacts? of the notes that are played over this time setting.

Please be assured that the engineers have reviewed this effect many times since the start of this thread and have concluded after having tested it on multiple TimeFactors that it correctly functions as it was designed. If you have any suggestions as to how it could function differently, we encourage your thoughts to be posted in this forum.

We thank you greatly in advance!

[IDeangelis]

 Ok…D has made THE point!

 I have used Eventide Reverse delay and shifter for the last 15 years, thru H3000/Orville/Eclipse/H8000 and all other units. There are basically 2 ways you want to use a reverse fx:

-playing IN TIME

-playing FREE…NO TIME

Playing in time involves the use of TapTempo/MIDI Clock

pretty much as any delay type, Reverse delay requires a buffer memory to be filled with datas (= what YOU play) and sending it out exactly after the choosen buffer length (delay time you set). So, for example, if your song has a 120 BPM beat and you want a reverse delay of a quarter note, set TTempo on 1/4 note and the dsp will automagically set delay time to 500 ms. Now you need to play *in time* with the song beat.

 when playing without TIME, which is what I love the best, set your reverse delay to long settings, from 1500 ms on and just play. No dry sound! Your playing will be back after the set delay time…just keep on playing and things will sound right.

 A "hybrid" approach is to set the delay time as long as possibl, in relation to the song beat. A whole bar or more bars….. that is another amazing way to use this cool fx.

Be aware that reverse fx will NOT instantly play what you play. It is not reversing your lines in real time. It always require a memory (=delay time) to be used/filled/released.

cheers

I 

[esiegel]

Yes, this has made things much clearer, thanks to D and I for the substantial new info.  Obviously it would be great to have this available to new users of the TF.  As far as new ideas, the only thing I can think of is making a start and stop function available as in the looper, as it is very tricky to get the "windows" lined up with the rhythm.  

E (in the land of one initial) 

[cattaneo]

Very interesting thread. When I started to use the TF, I had a hard time getting what I wanted from the reverse patch, but I realized that the key was the crossfade knob. This is a parameter not usually found on other devices, such as L6. That might explain why some users couldn't find their mark at first.

Once I got the hang of the crossfade, I was able to use the reverse preset with great success. So I would be an advocate of not changing it!  More flexibility means more work initially, but it's worth it as far as I'm concern. 

This is the reverse preset I'm using:

Mix 8

Dmix A5 B10

D. time A3/16 B dotted half note 

FBK A0 B0

x knob 3ms

(using the expression pedal, i move towards the following)

Mix 28

Dmix and D time stay the same

FBK A80 B100

xknob 100ms 

[diegoarts]

Hi,

i was also fighting with the reverse delay setting the other day.

it's true – without time, you could just play a phrase in total an let it "come back". But this is not very useable in a band/live setting. more for special fx, background sounds or free parts.

thing is, other than with a normal delay you don't have that "time-feeling" here, so it's kinda hard to get the right start of a phrase.

what i could think of to solve this problem was either:

the delay time cycle starts at 1 when engaging the effect (is that already so? if not it would be a very cool feature – you activate the timefactor at 1 in a beat and you are perfectly in time. so the reverse would also "count in time". so it's easier to not play "overlapping" phrases.
watching the beat LED just isn't accurate enough here.

the other thing would be a little tricky: introduce dynamics into the reverse delay. so if active, it's engaged, but the cycle starts, when you start to play. this way, your playing would start the cycle – would be much easier to time!

would that be possible?

i think that would revolutionize reverse playing (live-use!).

best regards

diego

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