Ultratap as slowgear / volume swell has gate?

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    • #114061
      thossounds
      Participant

      Hi all,

      Wondering if I’m missing something obvious here… awhile back I posted about the search for a Boss “Slowgear” volume swell effect on an H9 Max. Brock had some very cool posts about it, but I’m still trying to figure out if there’s a way to have one with maybe more control over the fade in. I’ve been playign with the Ultratap algorhythm and am very close to something I like, but… it seems to have a noise gate that cuts off the tails on notes as they decay (before the instrument actually stops). There doesn’t seem to be any setting that I’m seeing that affects this… is there something I’m missing or is that just somehow part of the algorhythm? 

      Ultrap tap settings I’m at are:

      Mix 100%

      Length 56 mS

      Taps 1

      tempo off

      Tone 0

      Slurm 4 (just for  atiny bit of coloring)

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      predelay 0

      Spread -1 (doesn’t seem to affect anything with only 1 tap)

      Taper -100 (again… only 1 tap so no real affect?) 

      Chop – swell 9 (seems to be the best sensitivity setting for my input)

      Rise 48 (what I’m loving about using Ultratap… control over the swell length)

      Output 10dB (just like the boost)

      I know in some modes Ultratap works as a gate, but it seems like the gating gets left on even with Chop set to Swell? 

      Thanks for any thoughts? 

      ps – also wondering how some of you get those great screen shots in your posts that show all the settings at once? Are those actually made from something like an iPad? I typically program from an iPhone so everything is split onto two screens. 

      Best,

      Tom

       

       

       

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    • #145939
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      You're right, the end of the note does get choked off a bit.  I need to do some digging to figure out why.  It might have been intentional b/c the dominant use of Ultratap is with stacked up taps, but it could have also as easily been a bi-product of the complexity of options in this algorithm.  Stay tuned.  

    • #145940
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Ok, looks like I made that Swell feature occur using a peak detecting envelope to trigger an ADSR.  The ADSR amplitude modulates the incoming signal before the multitap delay.  I wanted predictable Rise (attack) time, hence the use of the ADSR.  Problem is, I think I tuned this ADSR primarily for the use case of a bunch of taps stacked up, so the sustain and release times are quite short (100 ms). This is the "gating" sound you are hearing.  The audio falls below the trigger threshold and the sustain / release portion is engaged.  I honestly didn't think of your particular use case.  I agree it would be a nice addition.  

      Here's the rub, if I just go in and increase those times, I'll probably be messing with lots of peoples' presets when they update.  Perhaps I could tweak it such that at small numbers of Taps we tie the sustain/release to the rise time or sensitivity?  This would break fewer presets I imagine, but still a significant change…. hmmm… maybe if enough people ask for it, this would be acceptable.  

      • #145942
        thossounds
        Participant
        wedelich wrote:

        Ok, looks like I made that Swell feature occur using a peak detecting envelope to trigger an ADSR.  The ADSR amplitude modulates the incoming signal before the multitap delay.  I wanted predictable Rise (attack) time, hence the use of the ADSR.  Problem is, I think I tuned this ADSR primarily for the use case of a bunch of taps stacked up, so the sustain and release times are quite short (100 ms). This is the “gating” sound you are hearing.  The audio falls below the trigger threshold and the sustain / release portion is engaged.  I honestly didn’t think of your particular use case.  I agree it would be a nice addition.  

        Here’s the rub, if I just go in and increase those times, I’ll probably be messing with lots of peoples’ presets when they update.  Perhaps I could tweak it such that at small numbers of Taps we tie the sustain/release to the rise time or sensitivity?  This would break fewer presets I imagine, but still a significant change…. hmmm… maybe if enough people ask for it, this would be acceptable.  

        Interesting. Thanks for digging so deep! Forgive my ignorance… I don’t know how much is involved with really just doing a whole new algorhithm, but wouldn’t that be the way to avoid “breaking” anyone’s existing presets? Volume swells like this are probably more prominently sought after than it seems a lot of company’s might think. Boss’ original pedal sells for a crazy amount if you can find one used and they’ve never re-issued it to my knowledge (Check SG-1 Slow Gear on reverb.com, currently 3 used starting at $425 each). Speaking for myself, I’ve been hanging on to old Boss SE-70s probably mainly for this effect. I use two live, but have six stockpiled. (Would love to replace them all with extra H9’s at some point!) Sent one in for repair to them last year and they said they no longer have mother boards for them. Probably hasn’t been made since ’95 or so (manual is ©1993).  In the modern world it’s also a thread on Line 6’s Helix discussion (they apparently didn’t add it either 😉

        If it were possible to make an algorithm featuring this the controls are usually really simple. The SE-70’s just feature a choice of auto/manual (I’m not even sure what manual is.. always use auto), then a sensitivity and a swell which is really the “attack” duration. One of the things that’s great about it is (like this UltraTap seems to do) it sort of stays “open” (no swells) once it inititally swells in, until I guess the input drops below a threshold, then it swells again. Just dreaming aloud here, but IF it were possible to do this, and IF there was extra DSP room (since this doesn’t seem like too much of a strain?) it would be great to couple it with something else too. It seems to usually work best first in a chain, but then maybe followed with… overdrive/fuzz? Then maybe (insert extra H9 I suppose) chorus, delay, verb like Space Time? 

        BTW if you search the forum for Slow Gear and Slowgear you’ll find a few other posts about it, including my old one (where someone posted suggestions, but none seem as close as this Ultratap does), and one from Bert Lams (a friend of mine actually and a current H9 user, we tour together and he plays with The California Guitar Trio).

        Thanks for the insights! 

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        Tom

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    • #145952
      ROBLEISHMAN
      Participant

      Why not just clone ultra tap an customize it for swells, I also use the ultra tap algo for swell and find the gating a bit of a bummer

      • #147905
        Teejoo
        Member
        robleishman wrote:
        Why not just clone ultra tap an customize it for swells, I also use the ultra tap algo for swell and find the gating a bit of a bummer

        +1 to that. A good swell algorithm would be really really nice! There’s loads of ambient guitar players nowadays, they would surely agree.

    • #147907
      brock
      Participant

      I would think it’d be difficult to create a more customizable Slow Gear effect than what’s already in the DynaVerb algorithm [OmniPressor Mode].  A couple of examples: 

      https://www.eventideaudio.com/community/forum/stompboxes/searching-slow-gear-effect-h9s

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