Why are algorithms so expensive for H9

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    • #110994
      mets1969
      Member

      I own all your stomboxes including the new H9. Why are the algorithms so expensive in the App

      Store? I think if you have all the other stomps there should be a discount. I think they should be $5.00. Or Bundle everything for like $40.00. I think more people would buy more.

      Thank You,

      Steve

    • #124610
      mets1969
      Member

      As I want to make it clear, the unit is great! I just think the add ones are way to expensive. If you

      own all the Eventide Stomps you should not have to pay $20.00 per algorithms for ones you own.

      If you are a registered product owner they should be somewhere in the $40.00 Range for all of them.

      If Eventide comes up with brand new ones $10 t0 $20 would be fine. I bought the unit so I did not

      have to use all the boxes.

      Thanks

    • #124633
      Imerkat
      Member

      how much are they now?

    • #135487
      coirbidh_99
      Participant

      His argument, I think, is that if you've registered a Factor pedal previously, you should get a discount on the algorithms for that pedal.  That would be nice, but I don't think that Apple's policies make that an easy – or perhaps even possible – sales approach.  Remember that since the algorithms are sold as in-app content through the iOS app, it's not just about what Eventide wants to do here.

    • #135489
      Imerkat
      Member

      Sooooo….how much are they? they aren't published anywhere just wanted to know

    • #135490
      gkellum
      Member

      The algorithms are all $20 each.

    • #135492
      brock
      Participant

      Can someone clarify what constitutes a single "algorithm" for in-app purchase?  The product descriptions include a list of the pre-loaded "most popular algorithms".  In the original stompboxes, ten algorithms are featured, with variations on any particular one as a subcategory.

      For example, the PitchFactor doesn't consider the H910 and H949 as two of its algorithms; let alone the tuner.  Neither does the ModFactor list each of its Chorus or Tremolo variations as discrete algorithms.  The clearest picture that I'm getting here is from the UltraTap algorithm.  'Special' is special.

      I really want to want this H9, but I would like to know what I'm getting into. I can understand the sputtering release dates. I can overcome the shared expression / aux jack with MIDI control.  But Win / Android user here, so it's a bit of a gamble to figure out what's what, then project what might or might not happen down the line.

      I will say that I appreciate the documentation being online now.

    • #135493
      gkellum
      Member

      These are the algorithms that are available for in app purchase for $20 each.  I've listed all the algorithms from all of the Factor stompboxes even though Chorus, TremoloPan, Vintage Delay, Tape Echo, H910/H949, Crystals, Hall, and Shimmer come with the H9 (as does UltraTap). I can understand why you would find this confusing given the way that the description of the H9 describes what algorithms come with the H9.  But in any case all of the ModFactor algorithms come with all the algorithm subtypes included for the $20.

      These are the ModFactor algorithms: Chorus, Phaser, QWah, Flanger, ModFilter, Rotary, TremoloPan, Vibrato, Undulator, RingMod

      These are the TimeFactor algorithms: Digital Delay, Vintage Delay, Tape Echo, ModDelay, DuckedDelay, BandDelay, FilterPong, MultiTap, Reverse Delay

      These are the PitchFactor algorithms: HarModulator, MicroPitch, H910/H949, PitchFlex, Synthonizer, Crystals, Diatonic, Quadravox, Octaver, HarPeggiator

      These are the Space algorithms: DynaVerb, TremoloVerb, Room, Plate, Spring, Hall, Shimmer, Reverse, ModEchoVerb,DualVerb, Blackhole, MangledVerb

      If you're a Windows user, you can check out the Windows release of H9 Control that's available now on the H9 support page.  As you'll notice, there's no store functionality yet for Windows, but that is in the works.

    • #135494
      brock
      Participant
      Quote:
      I can understand why you would find this confusing given the way that the description of the H9 describes what algorithms come with the H9.  But in any case all of the ModFactor algorithms come with all the algorithm subtypes included for the $20.

      No doubt that's the clearest explanation that I've seen yet (and I'm all over the reviews and videos).  Thank you for that.  If that's the case, I really don't see any controversy over the pricing structure.

      And I will check out the Windows H9 Control release.  It seems to me that if the per-Stompbox presets and the H9 are interchangeable (as reported), it could be a symbiotic relationship for an existing Stompbox owner.

    • #135495
      Styrioci
      Member

      I've downloaded Win H9 control and seeing there is Resonator algorithm listed under H9, what's that based on?

    • #135496
      gkellum
      Member

      Resonator was based on the algorithm JansResoChords in the H8000.  It actually wasn't supposed to be in the Windows build, because the algorithm isn't quite ready yet and it's not available to buy yet through the iOS app.  But in any case that's what we're bringing out next for the H9.

    • #124656
      awdwon
      Participant

      So if I wanted to buy everything that the Space had to offer it would cost me only $20 in addition to the original cost of the pedal? Will most likely buy one if that's the case. Thanks.

    • #124657
      gkellum
      Member

      It's $20 per algorithm, not $20 for all the algorithms that come in a single factor pedal.  Space has 12 algorithms but two of those come bundled with the H9 already.  So, the remaining ten algorithms would be 10 * $20 = $200.

    • #135537
      mjtripper
      Member

      Maybe there could be discounts like buy all of them for $10ea or buy all from one factor pedal for $$15ea. Or even a rolling discount like the first one is 20, ssecond is 19, third is 18, etc. Basically some type of  quantity discount setup. 

    • #124778
      gregLhorton
      Member

      I just got my H9 and I love it with my iPad controller.  But I do agree that the $20 price for each algorithm is a bit high.  We do get 1 free purchase.  I have the PitchFactor as well as the H9.

      If these were $10 I probably would have bout 3 or 4 by now, but at $20 I have not bought any or used my credit.  Now I don't really want to take a chance on getting one unless I really think it will be useful.

    • #124779
      wedelich
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Hi Greg,

      Just checking, but did you know you can try out algorithms for free for 5 minutes per day?  This way you can gauge whether or not it could be useful to you.  

    • #135666
      TommyJay
      Member

      I was going to buy the PitchFactor and then read about the H-9.  I was under the impression until you clearified it that I could buy the H-9 for $500.00 and then buy the Pitchfactor algorithm for another $20 and I would have the Pitchfactor.  So bottom line here and correct me if I am wrong please.  I would purchase the H-99 for aproximately $500 and then to get the full Pitchfactor spend another $200, $20 for each individual algorithm to make up a complete Pitchfactor …….Correct??

      One more question, please…. would adding all the Pitchfactor algorithms give me an identical Pitchfactor, the same as going out and buying the Pitchfactor stompbox?

      Thanks,

      Tommy 

    • #135668
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      You are correct – $20 per algorithm. H9 comes with 2 PF algorithms, so you would need another 8 for the full set.

      The result would have the sounds of the PF, but note that is a different product. Main differences are the obvious control and display things. It is also smaller and slightly zippier.

    • #135670
      gkellum
      Member

      If you bought an H9, that already comes with the PitchFactor algorithms H910/H949 and Crystals.  Plus, it comes with a coupon that you can use to get an additional algorithm of your choice free.  So, if you wanted all of the remaining 8 PitchFactor algorithms, you could use your coupon for one and buy the remaining 7 for $140.

      Adding all of the PitchFactor algorithms would give you all of the sounds of the PitchFactor.  The interface on the stompbox is different of course, but the algorithms are identical.

    • #135671
      TommyJay
      Member

      Would I be able to set up presets that would have a mixture of the Pitchfactor algorithm, the Space and Timefactor etc. etc. or can you only use the one stomp box at a time.  In other words only the Pitchfactor or Space or any of the other stomp boxes?

    • #135672
      gkellum
      Member

      The H9 can only do one algorithm at a time.  So, yes, that means at any given time it could be running a PitchFactor or Space algorithm but not some mixture of multiple algorithms.

    • #135674
      TommyJay
      Member

      gkellum:

      The H9 can only do one algorithm at a time.  So, yes, that means at any given time it could be running a PitchFactor or Space algorithm but not some mixture of multiple algorithms.

      Thanks, guess I just have to decide what I want to purchase.  The H-9 is still looking very good to me.

    • #135702
      3dsman
      Member

      I'm a H9 newbie but love the pedal already after only having it for one day.   Mind blowing range of FX all on a single stomp barely bigger than my T-Rex Replica (which is most likely going up for sale now).   Given that you can 'try before you buy' the algorithms, the pricing doesn't seem that out of whack.   Some of the algo's that are loaded onto the H9 seem useless to me (insanity… mosquitos… bullfrogs…).   They're curiosities that maybe somebody would find useful, but to me they're amusing but not much use for what I play.   I'm looking forward to combing through the algo's that are available for purchase and evaluating them and only if I really like one, two, or however many I find useful, then and only then do have to plunk down the $20.   Seems reasonable to me… although like everyone else here… wish it was $10.  

    • #135777
      ericlambo
      Participant

      Algorithms are far too expensive in my opinion.

      Can someone do the math (I say "can" because I'm not even sure how many algorithms are missing from the stock H9): what would it cost to fill the H9 with all available algorithms?

    • #135780
      alexone
      Participant

      Wanting all algorithms is nonsense to me. There is a lot of redundancy or very similar things. Differences lie in the ways to achieve the same result.

      If it is fun to test some minutes, you can do it for free. Anyway, it's sure that a degressive tarif would be nice.

    • #135781
      ericlambo
      Participant

      The thread (and question) is about the cost of filling the box, not what others feel are necessary. Obviously, everyone can decide for themselves which algorithms are necessary for their purposes and which are not. Some people will prefer to have a slew of options at their disposal and the box is designed to provide it.

    • #135782
      coirbidh_99
      Participant

      Each Factor pedal contributed two of its 10 algorithms to the H9 initial load, and the TimeFactor loop algorithm is not available for purchase, so there are [3 x (10-2)] + (10-3) = 31 algorithms remaining, which would cost $20 x 31 = $620 to purchase,or about $1120 for the H9 plus all the algorithms.  Compare to purchasing each of the Factor pedals individually, which would cost ($400 + $400 + $500 +$500) = $1800 new.  The upside to getting all four Factor pedals is that you can use up to four effects simultaneously; the downside is that you have to pay for effects algorithms whether you use them or not, and you have to make room for all four pedals on your board (plus aux switches, expression pedals, and/or MIDI control), and you don't have access to the H9-specific algorithms, or to the real-time iOS control option.

    • #135788
      alexone
      Participant

      I don't think to be off topic if I say that you actually have all options without buying any algorithm.No need to full fill the box a priori : you can try all the algorithm as many times  as you want (duration limited per day) and if you need one you buy it! I insist on that becasue I think it's THE key point of the beast: flexibility!

    • #136868
      James Hamilton
      Member

      If I have 2 h9 units do I have to pay for each unit to have the new algorithms I purchase or can I upload on both units for $20.  Love the footprint of the pedal but it's mostly going to be for delay but at that price I can get a Timefactor and H9 for much cheaper.

    • #136870
      AAgnello
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      When you buy an algorithm you can run it on up to five h9s. So you only have to pay for each algorithm once.

    • #136872
      mrpollack2
      Member

      In Europe they are €18 .. which is now $ 25 !

    • #136976
      ckermo
      Participant

      Europe is far from the US, so it's more expensive to send them via the Internet cables under the Ocean :)))

      Seriously, why don't you adjust  the prices ? Very unfair.

    • #136978
      gkellum
      Member

      ckermo:

      Seriously, why don't you adjust  the prices?

      When you sell in app purchases using Apple's iTunes, you can't select a price for a particular country; you can only select a price tier for the entire world, and Apple translates that into actual prices in different countries.  I don't know why the price in Europe is so much higher. Maybe, it's b/c of exchange rates? Maybe it's because of VAT?  But in any case if you buy things on MacOSX or Windows using the Amazon Payments store, all of those prices are denominated in dollars, and that tends to be cheaper than the price tiers Apple chooses…

      Incidentally, regarding someone on this threads earlier post that algorithms for existing Factor customers should be cheaper, we thought about that but it was technically difficult to price things differently for different users based on what products they had registered, and that's why we instead decided to just give people two coupons for every Factor pedal they own that they can use to get any two H9 algorithms they'd like.

    • #126299
      Styrioci
      Member

      every new H9 exclusive algorithm was for free for limited time, so far. I think it's good strategy and can't imagine someone who wants to buy all factor algorithms – if you want some, the price isn't that high + you can get new algos for free for limited time after announcement. what more do you want? Cool

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