Are there new harmonizers on the way in the next 2 years?

[microwerx]

Well, I have convinced my wife that I need an Eventide and she even said she'd make it happen in the next 2 years.  Are there plans to release more powerful harmonizers in the near future and what might they be like?  I know the stompboxes and plugins are getting most of the attention nowadays while most of the hardware is almost 10 years old.

Thank you for any information you can provide.  I know you guys normally announce these things at NAMM, but I can't help but wonder what Eventide sees as the future of audio processing.

And yes I know that anything is possible. =D

[IDeangelis]

Hi microwerx

unfortunately, like any company in any biz, we can't provide info on possible future products and plans.

all the best

I

[microwerx]

Oh well, I had to try.  I do have some questions about your other products though and how they compare to each other.

The H7600 and H8000 I know are easy.  The H8000 is like having two H7600's in the same box.  How does the Eclipse compare to the H7600 in regards to processing power?

[IDeangelis]

It's not simple to answer as the 2 units are completely different structural platforms.

Eclipse has 2 FX engines that can load two algorithms, while the H7600 has a single (powerful) engine that loads a single algo, but this can be very large, larger than 2 on the Eclipse…and can also be modded or created from scratch by the user, using our Vsigfile algorithm editor.

So, the best answer would be….a 7600 is more powerful as it can load more coded information for the dsp.

best

I

[microwerx]

So the 7600 is capable of running an algorithm of approximately twice the capability of the Eclipse?  i.e. H7600 ~= 2 Eclipses?

[IDeangelis]

There is no exact answer to this as the algorithms can be very, very different in size or in one of the many resources the dsp needs to use. So a single algorithm in H7600 can do more of 2 in Eclipse BUT it depends on what algorithms they are.

Things here are not as square as simple definitions.

I

[microwerx]

I guess what I'm referring to is computational and memory capacity.  I remember on one of Digitech's old TSR-24 effects processor that each effect had a certain number of CPU units and a certain number of memory units.  Things like delay would use lots of memory but little CPU in comparison to a phaser which would use a lot more CPU than memory.

I guess I'm asking about how the actual DSP chips compare from unit to unit.  Is the Eclipse DSP chip roughly the same as the H7600?

[IDeangelis]

DSP power is not important because the architecture is different.

Let's just say the 7600 will give you more with its power.

I

[microwerx]

Of course.  I figure that the Eclipse dual effect architecture splits the computing resources of a single DSP processor into three parts.  Two equal parts for audio processing (the algorithms) and the third part for routing and other processing.  In comparison the H7600 uses the entire capacity of the DSP chip for audio processing.  This allows one to create algorithms that are much more complex than the Eclipse 1) because you have the entire DSP processor for the effect 2) because you don't need to be confined by a particular preset algorithm and 3) the routing and additional processing is not as intensive (or is offloaded to another component).

That being said, if you were to create algorithms with vsig for the 7600 based on the models on the Eclipse (like complex TimeFactor or ModFactor algorithms), how many of these could you fit in one algorithm on the 7600?

[IDeangelis]

The footstomps are a completely different beast and can eat up a huge amount of resources and power. Can't really give you a precise answer, sorry.

I

[microwerx]

Sorry, I think you misunderstood.  The Eclipse has these MF and TF algorithms now?  In practical terms, how many of these (or similarly complicated algs) can the 7600 run at a time? The Eclipse can do 2 (FX-A and FX-B).  The 7600 can do ______.

[IDeangelis]

I haven't misunderstood, microwerx. The pedals algorithms are big structures and complex. Eclipse can do 1, not 2, at the same time. The 7600 may or may not do 2, depending on the algorithms. Our algorithms are very different from each other. None of them uses the same resources as another. So, again, no rules here…it depends…..

best

I

[microwerx]

I understand now.  I thought the Eclipse could do 2 at a time.  This is kinda like the Monolithem Tandem feature on the H8000 where both effects are combined to make 1 large effect?  

[IDeangelis]

Not really.

Eclipse can't go monolithic. The 2 FX blocks are always alive as 2 separate units. When you load an algorithm in FX A and want to load another in B, scrolling thru the algorithms you will be prompted if they can or can't be loaded in the second block, depending on the size and resources used by the loaded one and the candidate you are looking at.

Most TF/MF algos won't allow loading of a second (=pedal) similar one.

best

I

[microwerx]

I understand now.  That makes perfect sense.  I had previously thought the Eclipse could do any two effects in FX-A and FX-B.

[IDeangelis]

One thing that I would like you to check out is the MIDI Virtual Racks presets library. It will show you the power and flexibility of the 7600. This can't be achieved on Eclipse. You way want to check the 7600 Presets Manual, in its last pages, for a detailed description on how these presets work.

best

I

[microwerx]

These presets are like small pedal boards that you can store 10 snapshots of all the settings, right?  It seems pretty cool that you could customize those presets with VSig and make your own.  How do some of the H7600 effects (the virtual pedalboard presets) compare to the algorithms in the Eclipse?

[microwerx]

Sorry, I meant MIDI Virtual Racks.  Also, I was looking through the preset library and does the Eclipse have anything like the following effects from the 7600?  These are ones I saw in the MIDI Virtual Racks presets.

2290 TT dynamic dly+pan+duck

1210 st chrs/flanger

PCM 70 Hall

Classic Verb

[IDeangelis]

A MIDI Virtual Rack is a full rack of fx. Each one has extended numbers of parameters. A 7600 can provide racks with up to 5 full blown units in a preset (Eventide/TC/Lexi) stuff with 10 snapshots you can recall with a single MIDI CC.

That isn't possible on Eclipse. A small number of "racks" have been added in the latest OS but they do not offer snapshots, nor the large variety of fx combinations like in the 7600.

There are some Lexi and Eventide verbs from the bigger units in the Eclipse. You can do ducking delay but not as in the 2290. No 1210.

best

I

[microwerx]

The 7600 does sound like it has the power.  I am seriously thinking of getting a TC Electronic G-System 1) because of the MIDI board and 2) because of the effects.  But I was also planning on getting an Eventide too.

I suppose if I get the G-System, having the virtual rack is not as extremely important, however the H7600/H8000 lets you precisely define what you want plus you can create any effect you want.  On the other hand $4000 would get you an Eclipse and 5 different Eventide Pedals, but then you have too many pedals to distract from playing the guitar…brain overload!

Thank you by the way Italo for helping with all my questions…there are a lot…

Maybe I'm a little ahead of the times with what I'm wishing for?  Here's to the H9000.  I wish that I could have an effects box that had 8 DSPs that you could edit with VSig, could route in any order, had no latency times between presets, had 8 ins and 8 outs which you could connect to any of the inputs and outputs on the DSPs, and had an insane sampler memory that you could use to record 8 channels of audio with.

I could have my guitar running into the H9000 into a couple of DSPs for effects, then out to my Mesa/Boogie Rig so I can get my Dual Rectifier on the left and my Mark 5 on the right, then have them go through a couple of DSPs for my guitar effects and back out to the power amplifiers.

Ok, so maybe 8 DSPs is a bit much for a guitar player, but I bet the studio guys would love it.  Studio guys could process their 7.1 audio with ease.  The guitar players could easily switch each DSP like they were changing out stompboxes.  =D  And if the design was ambitious, you could allow users to run their own custom software algorithms through the DSPs like custom designed compressors and limiters, reverbs, amp sims, etc.

I suppose the H7600 replacement would have 4 DSPs, the H8000 replacement would have 8 DSPs, and the Eclipse replacement would have 2 DSPs.

Alas, only computers seem to be able to do this right now, but I wish there was a hardware solution.

[IDeangelis]

Here are a number of things to seriously consider:

-The 7600 audio quality has nothing comparable to it. The sound is just……

-the future s multicore DSPs. No need for 8. A couple of tri_core chips have tons of power.

-An H8000 can already do what you describe. You can have two full independent rigs (MVRacks) at the same time, using two stereo amps setups. Easily.

-7.1 isn't really much used. Good 5.1 is what is requested.

-Having MIDI Virtual Racks means no MIDI latency, particularly on the H8000, as one could use the 2 DSPs switching audio from one to the other, while changing preset in the abandoned one. DSP power has nothing to do with presets changing times, anyway.

-Computers have a lot of power these days. Unfortunately the way OSs and audio platforms are designed limit that power a lot. DSPs can still do much more…and sound much better.

all the best

I

[microwerx]

Thank you for your help with all the questions I had back then. I feel a little bad because I seem quite pushy in my posts…so I hope ya'll will forgive my rudeness.

Well, I've been down the G-System road and decided ultimately that it wasn't for me after a year and a half. I felt a little limited with some of the ins and outs of their system, though the effects were good. I had looked at the H7600 and H8000 and decided that since the MIDI Virtual Racks seemed like all I'd use, that the G-system was going to provide that in one package.

I've been seriously considering the Eclipse now and I was curious about the preset switching latency times. I know they are there, but I was wondering if I switched between two presets that used the exact same algorithms but with different settings, if there was a delay in switching between those presets, or if the Eclipse reloads the entire algorithm all over again?

I wanted to find out because I've been thinking of building a MIDI switching system for my rack and I wanted to sort of plan out how I was going to incorporate my Eventide effects…whether or not I needed to add a separate MIDI foot controller to select different presets and then use my main foot controller to control whether it is in my FX loop.

BTW, I have been extremely happy with my Eventide Mod Factor. I replaced quite a bit of analog effects pedals with it and I've been pleased with the diversity and quality of the effects in that box. [Although I do kind of miss that Wurlitzer style vibrato from one of my old pedals…*hint*hint*]

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