Does H9000 run hot? Can it be sandwiched between other gear in a rack?

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  • This topic has 33 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 3 weeks, 6 days ago by tbskoglund
    Eventide Staff
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    • #115850
      KazRemark
      Participant

      Considering swapping out my DSP-7000 for the H9000, however the only readily accesible spot I have available would be sandwiching it underneath a Drawmer 1969 Compressor in my rack.  Alternatively, I could move some things around and put it under a half rack unit (the OG overstayer compressor) to create a little more airflow above, however those are my only options if I want to have it within reach of my seating position.  Which I do so that it’s easy to program.  How hot does the H9000 run, is it a bad idea to have it underneath another piece of gear?

    • #154502
      brysava
      Participant
      KazRemark wrote:

      Considering swapping out my DSP-7000 for the H9000, however the only readily accesible spot I have available would be sandwiching it underneath a Drawmer 1969 Compressor in my rack.  Alternatively, I could move some things around and put it under a half rack unit (the OG overstayer compressor) to create a little more airflow above, however those are my only options if I want to have it within reach of my seating position.  Which I do so that it’s easy to program.  How hot does the H9000 run, is it a bad idea to have it underneath another piece of gear?

      I’ve found my H9000 to run relatively cool (lots cooler than the H8000’s, as it has a fan), and the unit’s heat vents are on the side, anyway, so it seems to me it would be fine to have stuff on top or on the bottom.

      • #154506
        jbamberg
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        brysava wrote:

        I’ve found my H9000 to run relatively cool (lots cooler than the H8000’s, as it has a fan), and the unit’s heat vents are on the side, anyway, so it seems to me it would be fine to have stuff on top or on the bottom.

        That’s correct – the vents are on the sides so it’s a good idea to have some space on the sides of the unit, but having a piece of gear on top should be no problem.

    • #154509
      KazRemark
      Participant

      Thanks guys. How’s the fan noise if this was right in front of me in prime listening spot? Assuming it’s hopefully pretty quiet?

      • #154533
        ndoe22
        Participant
        KazRemark wrote:
        Thanks guys. How’s the fan noise if this was right in front of me in prime listening spot? Assuming it’s hopefully pretty quiet?

        If your room is pretty much quiet you’ll hear it. Can’t say for sure if it would bother you or not but it isn’t silent.

      • #154540
        macgee
        Participant
        KazRemark wrote:
        Thanks guys. How’s the fan noise if this was right in front of me in prime listening spot? Assuming it’s hopefully pretty quiet?

        when i got my H9000 i found the fan a little loud for me because it was right on my desk in front of me so I could control it from the front panel – I have super sensitive hearing though and the room is otherwise dead quiet

        so after chatting with Eventide and support folk I was able to get to get the fan slowed down a bit which made a pleasing difference.

        It’s now at the bottom of a rack with no sides on and lives below an Avalon U5 DI – I use Emote exclusively

        My H9k is about 18months old now, no issues

      • #154546
        tmoravan
        Participant
        macgee wrote:
        KazRemark wrote:
        Thanks guys. How’s the fan noise if this was right in front of me in prime listening spot? Assuming it’s hopefully pretty quiet?

        when i got my H9000 i found the fan a little loud for me because it was right on my desk in front of me so I could control it from the front panel – I have super sensitive hearing though and the room is otherwise dead quiet

        so after chatting with Eventide and support folk I was able to get to get the fan slowed down a bit which made a pleasing difference.

        It’s now at the bottom of a rack with no sides on and lives below an Avalon U5 DI – I use Emote exclusively

        My H9k is about 18months old now, no issues

         

        I know it’s probably not an authorized mod and will void your warranty, etc, etc, but was it a software controlled command to adjust the speed or was it hardware/resistor type of modifications?

         

        thanks

      • #154547
        macgee
        Participant
        tmoravan wrote:

        I know it’s probably not an authorized mod and will void your warranty, etc, etc, but was it a software controlled command to adjust the speed or was it hardware/resistor type of modifications?

        good point, i got it done by a company that is authorised in London based on feedback by Eventide – arranged through my dealer

        but also, this might not be necessary as mine was an earlier unit and also the fan might not bother you – it’s just good to know if it does bother you you have options

      • #154548
        jbamberg
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff

        Just wanted to add that we are planning to implement software control of the fan speed in the H9000.  I can’t promise a date, because it will depend on when we can organize proper thermal testing, but I’d expect it to be before the end of the year.

      • #154553
        bsfreq
        Participant
        jbamberg wrote:

        Just wanted to add that we are planning to implement software control of the fan speed in the H9000.  I can’t promise a date, because it will depend on when we can organize proper thermal testing, but I’d expect it to be before the end of the year.

        This sounds good!

        I’ve actually installed silent rack fans to keep my whole rack cool, so the H9000 fan might as well be dialled down a bit.

    • #154514
      brysava
      Participant

      Not silent, but it seems pretty quiet to me.

    • #154535
      tmoravan
      Participant

      Thaqt’s how mine is positioned.  Yes you can hear the fan noise, but I haven’t found it to be so loud that it’s distracting from editing/tweaking patches while music is playing.

      Of course I have other vintage effects in the rack with louder fans (480L, IM-90), so for me it’s fine, but it will depend on your tolerance and what you are used to in your environment.  If you have a dead quiet space, you might end up putting it down low or somewhere else and mainly using Emote.

    • #155613
      drxcm
      Participant

      Fan is loud enough to be a bit annoying for me too.

      Would love to see fan speed addressed in new firmware!

    • #155636
      ArguZ
      Participant

      There are Noctua fans in that diameter that are virtually silent.

      There is so much empty space in a H9000 that it provides excellent airflow.

      If you have a pro rack with active cooling it is more than enough.

      Compared to an UAD Apollo or TubeOpto preamp it runs totally cool.

      But the sound of the stock fans is comparable to a standard desktop PC…

      Its not something you want on the table in front of you

      • #155637
        drxcm
        Participant
        ArguZ wrote:

        There are Noctua fans in that diameter that are virtually silent.

        There is so much empty space in a H9000 that it provides excellent airflow.

        If you have a pro rack with active cooling it is more than enough.

        Compared to an UAD Apollo or TubeOpto preamp it runs totally cool.

        But the sound of the stock fans is comparable to a standard desktop PC…

        Its not something you want on the table in front of you

         

        Having just spent a small fortune on this unit, I’m not keen to void my warranty.

        Would prefer a fan control in firmware, but if I were to for example modify my unit, what would I need to do?

        Is the Noctua a plug and play kinda connection to the motherboard?

        The fan is a bit of a downer for an otherwise lovely device!

      • #155660
        jbamberg
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        drxcm wrote:

        Would prefer a fan control in firmware, but if I were to for example modify my unit, what would I need to do?

        Is the Noctua a plug and play kinda connection to the motherboard?

        We chose the H9000’s fan mainly for its quietness.  I wish my home office were quiet enough to hear it!

        Adding fan speed control to the firmware is something we’ve been meaning to do for ages, but it kept getting pushed down the priority list.  However, since you and others have brought it up, I’ll see if I can get this done in the coming weeks, after the current beta is out.

        I don’t know the specific fan you are talking about, and I’d hesitate to recommend modifying the H9000 yourself.

      • #155697
        ThreeFingersOfLove
        Participant
        jbamberg wrote:
        drxcm wrote:

        Would prefer a fan control in firmware, but if I were to for example modify my unit, what would I need to do?

        Is the Noctua a plug and play kinda connection to the motherboard?

        We chose the H9000’s fan mainly for its quietness.  I wish my home office were quiet enough to hear it!

        Adding fan speed control to the firmware is something we’ve been meaning to do for ages, but it kept getting pushed down the priority list.  However, since you and others have brought it up, I’ll see if I can get this done in the coming weeks, after the current beta is out.

        I don’t know the specific fan you are talking about, and I’d hesitate to recommend modifying the H9000 yourself.

         

        Can you modify the H9000 with a Noctua fan prior to the H9000 leaving your factory?

    • #155640
      tmoravan
      Participant

      I imagine that the amount of heat generated (and therefore cooling required) will also depend on how many expansion cards are installed in the H9000.  For those of us with stock 9000’s and no expansion cards, a lower fan speed may be fine.  People with fully loaded 9000’s may need the maximum amount of cooling possible.  That’s why I agree with drxcm and hope Eventide can provide fan speed management via the OS.

      (FWIW, I have installed quieter Noctua and similar fans in various older effects in the past and it’s been fine, but my use of the gear and how I have it racked may not be the same as you).

    • #155701
      tmoravan
      Participant

      I guess the question I’d have is — if possible, can you post the fan’s manufacturer/model number so we can at least look at the current specifications without having to open up a 9000 ourselves?

      • #155702
        jbamberg
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        tmoravan wrote:

        I guess the question I’d have is — if possible, can you post the fan’s manufacturer/model number so we can at least look at the current specifications without having to open up a 9000 ourselves?

        Here is the datasheet, so if you wanted to install a different fan yourself, you have the information you need.  This should not be construed as a recommendation to do so.

        Our fan is rated 14.3 dBA, which, according to Noctua’s specs at https://noctua.at/en/products/fan, is quieter than all their 80mm fans with PWM.  (However, making absolute measurements of acoustical levels is very dependent on setup/calibration).

        Yesterday I did some work to enable the PWM controller on the H9000 and found that reducing the speed makes a big difference to the noise, while keeping the temperature of the DSPs at a reasonable level, at least in my home office environment. This will get released soon, after we do a lot of testing to make sure we won’t overheat.

    • #155703
      tmoravan
      Participant

      Thanks.  That’s kind of what I have found out when doing work on old effects units.  The specifications of the fan are only part of the story.  How it’s mounted, the layout of cards and components inside the unit, the overall airflow through the unit, they all contribute to the perceived noise.

       

      I appreciate the spec sheet and I will keep the screwdriver away from my H9000 and wait for the OS update.  🙂

    • #155705
      drxcm
      Participant

      Awesome support from jbamberg!

      Thanks so much for the quick
      responses, updates and datasheet.

      Really looking forward to trying the firmware out when it hits!

    • #155943
      Kamurah
      Participant

      So I have a follow up question about the H9000 in a rack.

      I currently have my H9000R in a 3u rack, with nothing above (open space), however…the width of the H9000 (It is quite wide) does not allow for much open space on the sides of the unit where the fan is.

      I would estimate there is *maybe* 1/16th of an inch between the sides of the H9000 and the sides of the rack case.  I looked at another case I have by a different vendor, and if the H9000 was mounted in that case, the clearance on the sides would be the same.  When I feel the top of the unit on the side where the fan is…it does feel pretty warm to the touch…but not any hotter than the Cisco switch I am using (which does not have a fan).  I do have a Dante card installed in the first expansion slot (the slot closest to the side of the unit).

      Is this OK?  I saw where Eventide recommended some clearance on the sides…but I don’t see how to make this happen unless I was to cut a hole in the side of the rack…which sort of negates the protection the rack would provide.

      Thanks in advance.

    • #155991
      Kamurah
      Participant

      I cut a hole in both sides of the rack to allow cross-ventilation.  The unit is much cooler now.  There just was no way around it if I was going to keep the unit in a commercial, standard, non-custom rack.

      However, I am still awaiting an answer from Support on the thermal tolerances of the unit.  Is it actually safe to have it in a rack with effectively zero side clearance for ventilation?  If the answer is ‘no’….what portable racks do they recommend?  I have racks by two different manufacturers here…and both are designed so that there would be very little clearance.  Likewise…the traditional plywood-type road cases would effectively block the air intake / exit holes as well.  If the unit MUST be racked in a padded case that has extra clearance on the sides….this kind of info should be in the manual.  There is no thermal info in the manual I can find…and the only mention of ‘temperature’ I can locate is a disclaimer that the unit will not be covered under warranty if ‘exposed’ to dangerously high temperatures.  If the unit ‘generates’ excessive temperatures due to ventilation, and fails accordingly, is it not covered under warranty?  Sorry to be pedantic with the questions…but it would be helpful to get some real answers.  Thanks!

    • #156021
      Kamurah
      Participant

      Hello?  Mic check.  Is this thing on?

      Still waiting for an answer from Eventide.

      • #156023
        jbamberg
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        Kamurah wrote:

        Hello?  Mic check.  Is this thing on?

        Still waiting for an answer from Eventide.

        Yes, it’s on.

        The short answer is that there is no specific guidance on thermal limits, nor is there any thermal cut-out in the event of overheating.  We selected the case, fan and heatsink design to cope with most conditions we would anticipate for a rack unit.  I realize that’s vague, so we have been working on a more rigorous solution.

        The new beta (1.3) is able to monitor the temperature of the DSPs.  However, we still need to implement a thermal fail-safe mechanism.  We are also planning to use the same mechanism to regulate the fan speed to make it quieter in less adverse conditions.  These features will be rolled out after 1.3 hits production.

         

         

      • #156024
        Kamurah
        Participant
        jbamberg wrote:
        Kamurah wrote:

        Hello?  Mic check.  Is this thing on?

        Still waiting for an answer from Eventide.

        Yes, it’s on.

        The short answer is that there is no specific guidance on thermal limits, nor is there any thermal cut-out in the event of overheating.  We selected the case, fan and heatsink design to cope with most conditions we would anticipate for a rack unit.  I realize that’s vague, so we have been working on a more rigorous solution.

        The new beta (1.3) is able to monitor the temperature of the DSPs.  However, we still need to implement a thermal fail-safe mechanism.  We are also planning to use the same mechanism to regulate the fan speed to make it quieter in less adverse conditions.  These features will be rolled out after 1.3 hits production.

         

         

        Thank you for the honest and forthright reply.  I understand the reason behind the imprecise answer, and it is nonetheless much appreciated.  It would be helpful if the release documentation for 1.3 includes some guidelines as to safe operating temperatures for the DSP, since we will be able to monitor DSP thermals.

        Show More...

        Hope you understand….I love my baby…and don’t want to put her at risk!

        Thank you again

        Show Less...
    • #158434
      patchen
      Participant

      Is there any update on the future ability to throttle the fan?  For my work the H9K is too loud to put in a desktop rack but that is ideally where I would like to put it for easier access.  I spend a fair amount of computer off time during creation so emote + distant rack is not really a solution all of the time.  Thanks for any info!

      • #158435
        tbskoglund
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        patchen wrote:

        Is there any update on the future ability to throttle the fan?  For my work the H9K is too loud to put in a desktop rack but that is ideally where I would like to put it for easier access.  I spend a fair amount of computer off time during creation so emote + distant rack is not really a solution all of the time.  Thanks for any info!

        Sorry, no updates to provide at this time. We do realize that this is something that could be useful and I’ve bumped it up on the priority list, but I can’t provide any timeline for when this may be added. Thanks for your patience.

    • #158454
      Matthias Adloff
      Participant

      Throttling would be great. In my ACed studio, the H9000R is always somewhat cool (sic!), unlike all it’s predecessors. Just LOUD. 

    • #158503
      octatonic
      Participant

      This is why I went for the Dante expansion.

      The fan noise is too great for me to be able to have it in the machine room.

      My H9000 sits in the adjoining room with a pair of ethernet cables to the switch.

      I would rather have it in the control room but this is an acceptable compromise.

    • #166069
      Hi-fi Yeah
      Participant

      I can’t rack anything underneath the H9000, because it came with rubber feet installed which prevent the rack holes from lining up.

      Seriously? How can I remove these feet?

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      • #166146
        tbskoglund
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff

        The rubber feet should come off easily with a knife or razor blade.

    • #166144
      Jago_Marris
      Participant

      Mine came with the feet in a bag ready to be stuck on. Did not as I knew I would rack it. Can’t you peel them off?

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