Eclipse: How to set up multiple delaylines et.al

[cyberpunx]

This something to really chew on for all you Eventide Eclipse-fans out there. The Eclipse is a machine that at least I, and im sure many with me, could spend a a whole litetime with and still not master it fully! But one of the many reaccuring things that bothers me is how you set the delay-times for different kinds of effects that have multi-line delay-lines (and also equivalent for detune- and pitch-parameters). Many effects-units doesnt have the ability to set these kinds of parmaters by the users, but for better or worse the Eclipse has that fucntionality. So in short whot the f**k do you do that, how do you set these series of delay-lines and also the quivalent for detune- and pitch-parameters?

I have made a selection, since there are lods of examples on effcts that uses these kinds of settings and parameters, so i have chosen a few from all of them. I have chosen a couple of delays and also some detuners and pitch-shifters. I have also sorted the examples after what algorithms they use, since i imangine (or fool myself 😛 ) that it will somehow help along a bit with the understanding of these very complex matters. And also each example is accompanied with some questions that i just would love to have some really good and clever answers to 😀

All examples come from Eventide Eclipses fabric presets, just to keep it simple.

The different categories that i have choosen are the following:

* Delays (plex networked)

* Delays (that acts like a chorus)

* Shifters-Detuners

* Shifters-Pitch-shifters

To save som space for this allready very vast and long mass of text, i created a pdf-file with this document in its full version and glory with full exampeles including the most important parameters and so on. And that documents is therefor several pages longer 😀 And here you can access it:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w-8hZfLw_SAy7q_bH8N0ILCpwXIbdvT4/view?usp=sharing

…..in this document i only then just rerence the exampels with preset-number, name and what algorithm it uses. So you Eclipse-fans who doesnt want to read the linked pdf-file above (or if the link doesnt work!!), you can all bring out

your manuals and look it up there 😀

 

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Let us begin with our first example in the first category

140 delay8plex; Algoritm: Delay8plex

Questions:

How do you come up with these delay-values? Any pattern? Methodology? How do you think?

Are the delay-values there to create a soft of chorus-effect/sound, affect the pan-structure? Or both? Something else?
You also have to have in mind that the shorter delay-values are often used for ”chorus-sounds” and longer ones aer often used for more traditonal ”delay-bouncing” and things like that.

 

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In the example above there are the delay-values in order (from shorter to longer ms-values), But as we shall se in the next example, that is not always the case:

141 LrgDelay8Plex; Algoritm: large dly8 plex

Questions:

Why are not the delay-values in order? That is longer delayvalues comes before shorter ones.

What is the purpose and thoughts behind that or simply, how do come up with such a series of values and in that order (or lack of order if you like).

 

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Now we are moving on with the next category that is delays who acts like choruses, with settings and such that supports that. And those settings can really be quirky to say the least.

482 Chorus Room; algoritm: delay 8 plex

Questions:

How do you come up with these delay-values? Any pattern? Methodology? How do you think?

In line with the previous question, you can also ask yourself how you come up with the such an order of the delay-values and why?

The delay-lines and its ms-values are supposed to create a chorus-sound, but can they also be used for creating a differnt pan-pattern?

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We are now changing both fx-type and category to the umbrella-term that Eventide calls: Shifters. The first of them that we are going to look at is Detuners, and of course how you set the delay-values for it and also along with that how you set the values for its detune-parameters.

preset: 226 Browner; algoritm: 4Detuners

Questions and theses:

Theses:

My theory regarding detuner-effect and the like is that the detune-paramters are mostly for creating a chorus-like effect, by slightly detuning the different lines against eachother.

The delay-lines on the other hand have i always interpretated as they are mainly there to make the stereo-widh broader/wider.

 

Questions:

Are my thesis above accurate?

When it come so the Detune- and delay-paramters:

How do you come up with these values? Any pattern? Methodology? How do you think?

 

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In the following example we have a variant on how you among other things can set the detune-paramters. And I for one are more than willing to welcome clever explanations on how you think when you set those detune-paramters.

preset: 256 ToonChamber2; algoritm: 4Detuners

Questions:

When it come so the Detune- and delay-paramters:

How do you come up with these values? Any pattern? Methodology? How do you think?

(There are already patterns at least for the delay-parameters, but the question that still remeains is how do you come up with that pattern?)

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Were moving on to the last category that is Pitch-shifters. And of course as usual the how and why etc on how you set the delay-paramters. BUT not only them but in this case also the pitch-paramters!! Here we go:

493 Ballerina

A: multishift 4 B: N/A

algoritm: multishift 4

 

Questions:

When it come so the Detune- and pitch-paramters:

How do you come up with these values? Any pattern? Methodology? How do you think?

 

The question is if the delay-values for pitch-shifters contribute to the enlargen the stereo-width or are just there so the harmonics/tones should appear at different times?

In the same way are the pitch-shift-parameters/values just there for creating harmonies and such or do they also contribute to broaden the stereo-width?

 

 

[cyberpunx]

i would also be very grateful if you could also give me tips about other places and sites where i can post these eventide-questions.

thanks in advance

//cyberpunx

[dedovstas]

Hello Cyberpunx!

I‘m afraid, people are little shocked by the length of you message and number of questions 🙂 I‘ll try to give my opinion on some points. May by it could be usefull for you. If you look at the algorithm schema of e.g. DlyPlex, you‘ll see, that the dly lines are in parallel and then mixed togeter. Therefore it should not matter, in which order the numbers are. At least that is my understanding. You asked about methodology, how to set the dly lines. I think there is a lot related to real physical effects. Try to emagine your sound source and the listener in a particular space. What kind of space is it (stone chamber, soft living room)? How many obstacles are there? Which wall is the closest to the listener! Which reflection arrives him first? Etc. That should help to set the reflections (delays).

Have you already read this article? http://www.kevindoylemusic.com/education_dimension/
If not, I would highly recemmed doing that. Knowing that technik you can build a dozen of spaces using different algorithms. Don‘t forget that your ears is a fine tool that can easily recognize false spaces. So always listen, while tweaking the values.

Btw. thats the only approach that I see for tweaking the verbs in the expert mode. The dly network is not documented in the algorithm manual. Which is an issue, of course!

Speaking about detuner settings. Read the basics of making chorusing: dly+detune+lfo+panning. Start with two lines until you get close enogth to the CE-2 tone. Go on with adding more lines. Go wired! Hope it helps.

happy New Year!

 

Regards,

Stas

[cyberpunx]

hello stas!

thanks for your help and i shall read that article when i get the time.

happy new year to you too 😀

//CyberPunx

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