Eclipse Volume Issues?

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    • #107075
      dsmbennett
      Member

      Hi,

      I am running an Eclipse in a guitar rig (which replaced a H3000 and 2 Roland Delays), and it is pretty damn good at loads of stuff. Particulaly good is the abilty to use an expression pedal to alter parameters and/or volume level at the same time :o)

      The only real problem I am getting is the volume levels on certain patches I have built. Nearly all my patches are dual (A+B effects) with the B block always being Vintage Delay (189 I think). I set the delays to different lengths on left and right which replicates using 2 seperate delay units on left and right.

      Block A on my presets will be whatever effect I choose to use: Phaser, Flanger, Micropitchshift etc, and I then mix a small amount of Block B (Delay) into the signal to add some delays. This is done in the mix section of the levels, and I always run in series (block A then into block B) to get a different delay mixed into each channel.

      Problem i have is as I bring the mix on block B up, the overall volume drops. Also, if I just use block B (delay only) I also find the volume drops as the mix becomes wetter. The only way to correct this is to alter the volume of every other preset (about 100) to bring them down to the level of the lowest volume preset I am using. Real pain doing all this when I have just added 1 preset!!!

      Is there a way of altering say the new preset volume to a plus dB perhaps as they are all limited to 0dB maximum? Or any other suggestion would be great as having to alter every preset just because I altered the mix on one of them is something I do not think I can live with  :o(

      Oddly, on my old H3000 you can alter the input/output of each effect into the +dB range which is why I never had this problem on my old set-up.

      Apart from this glitch, I am blown away with the Eclipse and all the different possibilties added via an expression pedal!! Cheers  :o)

      Dave

    • #120410
      dsmbennett
      Member

      Seems I may have stumped the Eventide guys with this one  :o)

    • #121350
      bert lams
      Member

      Great question-same problem as I have. I hope the Eventide guys can suggest a good way around this.

    • #132494
      dsmbennett
      Member

      Hi Bert,

      I did manage to get some better results with this problem, as some of the effects i use in block A had the ability to raise the output level if I went deep into the parameters of the effect and edited the output levels. However, as the Eventide guys could not resolve this issue, I decided to buy a Timefactor pedal and added this after the Eclipse in the signal chain. An expensive add on really, but was the only practical way i could find sorry. Hope you have better luck :o)

    • #132503
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      You can adjust the output level and the wet/dry mix for each preset. See "Routing and Levels between Effects Blocks" on p.37 of the User Manual.

      You will have to save the preset to keep the changes.

      But, don't let me stop you from buying more pedals …

    • #132515
      dsmbennett
      Member

      Hi

      Thanks for the quick reply (7 months) 

      Obviously I have tried this, but my point beings there is not any way of altering say the new preset volume to a +dB perhaps as they are all limited to 0dB maximum? 

      Oddly, on my old H3000 you can alter the input/output of each effect into the +dB range which is why I never had this problem on my old set-up. A weak point for an otherwise fabulous Eclipse unit :o)

      As I said, I had to buy a Timefactor to get round this problem, which I was not happy about after spending just under £2000 on the Eclipse :o)

    • #132516
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Hope the response speed did not make you dizzy (i missed your initial post – sorry).

      I also did not understand your problem. You are of course correct that the preset output level can only be reduced, presumably to reduce the risk of overloads.

    • #132613
      dsmbennett
      Member

      Hi Nick

      The basic problem I am having (and i guess overall flaw) with the unit, is if I'm running block A (say phaser) into block B (say vintage delay) when increasing the wet mix on block B there is an drop in volume at the final outputs of the block A effect signal.

      I know this sort of sounds normal, but it means the overall volume output at the main outputs drops as block B gets a wetter mix. In a guitar stomp box you can alter the amount of effect depth from 0% to 100% without the volume altering at the main output, but with this set up in the Eclipse you cannot it seems.

      I think what is happening at block B mix is rather than block B effect being added to the signal passing through from block A, is that block B effect is actually replacing the signal passing through from block A.

      Any suggestions?

      Apart from this issue, I am impressed with the unit :o)

    • #132620
      nickrose
      Moderator
      Eventide Staff

      Sounds like you are maybe using a series routing when what you want is a parallel routing.

      Some effects will of course have volume changes between wet and dry, depending on effect type, settings and source material. Not much we can do about this – I accept that the preset level would be more useful if it could boost the gain.

    • #132621
      dsmbennett
      Member

      Hi Nick,

      This is true, I am running series routing as parallel routing no good for some effect set-ups as it mixes left and right somewhat (no use for micropitchshift for example or different delays on each channel when you need a clear left and right separation to get the full effect)

      On my Timefactor pedal, the mix control mixes the dry and wet signal together maintaining a stable volume which would be of great use on the Eclipse set-up I am using.

      Apart from this downfall (which I got round by adding a Timefactor pedal to the chain) the Eclipse is one awesome piece of kit indeed. Perhaps a tweek to the mix parameter on the Eclipse a thought for the next software update? (if indeed there is one?)

      Many thanks for trying to help on this issue anyway, and keep up the good work!

      Regards,

      Dave

    • #133449
      i.ak
      Member

      I have exactly the same issue as dsmbennett. I love the unit, but once again I found myself strugling with the very same volume drop issue last night and I spent approximately 6 hours trying to get the presets on approximately even level.

      My problem as such is very simpple. I have two distorted rythm and lead sounds. One rythm and one lead with delay, etc. and one rythm and lead without them. The problem is that the dry sound is at least 2dB louder which is very well reconizable. 

      In other words, how to get the wet preset loud enough? I cannot lower the dry presets level, because there is this short lack in the the preset change during which the volume is momentarily much higher being very unusable.

      By using dual mono routing I got the levels closer, but it is still not as good as I want it to be.

    • #133450
      i.ak
      Member

      Greetings from Finland!

      It seems my last reply did not get here. Is it so that the 'quick reply' is not visible in this thread or did I do something wrong?

      Back to the point…I have exactly the same problem as dsmbennett has described. Last night I found myself once again stuggling with the volume levels between few presets. I love the unit and really hope that I could be able to find solution to this problem.

      So, my problem is similar as stated above. Lets simplify this a bit:  I have two distorted rythm guitar presets and two distorted lead guitar presets. Of these four presets, one rythm and one lead preset is completely dry and two are wet with i.e. delay. The volume levels of these presets are uneven. The volume level of the dry presets are 2 – 4 dB higher than the wet presets which is not good.

      In other words, how am I able to get the volume levels even? As stated earlier in the thread, there is no way to increase the gain of the presets to +dB's. Thus, I am left with only the option of reducing the level of the dry presets, which is not an solution as there is this short lack in the preset change during which the volume level is momentarily higher. 

      My amp is Diezel VH4 and the Eclipse is connected into serial loop with XLR-to-1/4" cables. There is no other units in the chain.

      Any advices are highly appreciated. Thank you.

    • #134587
      susanscreentest
      Member

      bump !!!

    • #134590
      cyanosaurus
      Participant

      Hi!

      Which BYPASS setting are you using? Is it Relay or DSP? I was just thinking if that would alter how the volume behaves while changing between those presets.

    • #134592
      susanscreentest
      Member

      The only solution for me now is the boss ls2 line selector. Problem is that the dsp bypass is louder than many effects. When you select Bypass while Program Change you hear for a short while the louder bypassed signal. I would suggest an Update where you can select the Wet/dry Mode, like for Studio work ( the way it is now ) and for stompbox work, where the 50/50 Wet/dry keeps the Original Signal at the same volume as the 100% Dry Setting. Funky that they did it right with the stompboxex and even with the Stompbox Algos in the eclipse, where they integrated a more guitar friendly mix knob in the algorithm. 

    • #134594
      wilkinsi
      Participant

      The only time I've heard a massive jump in volume is when I use one or two of the guitar preamp/distortion presets. I'll just adjust the level of the preset itself to bring it down.

    • #134597
      i.ak
      Member

      I must say that I am very dissapointed to the activeness of this support forum as it took 12 months to get even first reply. 

      We ain't talking about massive jumps in volume, but there is a noticeable jump. This is not a problem in home nor studio use, but in live shows it is.

      One of my favourite presets is Band Taps and if I have identical presets of which one is bypass and another is the FX on, there is definitely a change in the output volume. The same applies whether I use Relay or FX Bypass. Same is also applicable to other delay presets as well. I have spent hours tweaking all of the volume setting (master and preset -wise) without solution.

      For those radical effects which are hardly even recognizeable as guitar, the Eclipse works very well, but the annoying part here is that as much as I love the delay sounds of Eclipse, using it only for delays is not that convenient due to this volume issue. There is some difference between different presets (and algos of course), but it still seems that the overal level drops roughly estimated 2 to 4 dB. This volume drop would not be a problem if the bypass level would be lower immediately, but there is approximately 1sec where the volume is higher and then drops so this is not good solution either. I think the only option to solve this would be that I would be engaging and disengaging only the delay FX on that preset (via CC), but then the amount of "tap-dancing over pedal board" would increase significantly as sometimes I need the FX be engaged immediately as some times disengaged – Not to mention if there is different settings or type of delay to be loaded.

      At home, I use TimeFactor (with another Diezel so the loop may be compared) and in this little box the levels do not jump that much. Neither on my other "gig-rig" in which I use TC D-Two for delays and there is no drop in the volume.

      In case someone has found good solution to this I would appreciate your valuable input.

    • #134603
      susanscreentest
      Member

      Hey i.ak. You can all break it down to the 50/50 behavior of the mixknob ! Almost all delay presets have no dry signal ( except some time/mod factor algos etc ), so you have to set the global/programm levels to 50/50 ( at least for Seriel and Xfade Routing ) and there it is, the volume drop. That leads to the problem, that when you switch between programs and have "Bypass while PRG CHG" on, you hear the louder 100% dry signal that causes the volume drop. You can switch it to "mute" but then there is a real drop out. Beside that, if you use the XLR Relay Bypass, there is a big loud "Crack" Sound while switching, yes with the right cables. Unacceptable on a bass amp!

      Another dirty solution, but for live maybe acceptable:

      Take the Mute X Fade Algo, set it to 50/50 and set the Routing to Xfade. This will be your new Bypass Preset.

      Now, when you only take on Algo, and save it with xfade Routing, you can adjust/even the level better, there will be no drop out ( beside sometimes crackeling 😡 but thats another story 😉 ! ), and you can create nice Morphing effects. 

      Problems there. Only one Algo, Global XFade Time and the Converting Sound+Overall Digital Volume Drop seems to cloud the sound !

      This plus a Line Selector for Seriel Routing Programs. 

      Anyone ?

      What I also don´t understand from the eventide Support ???? !!! Isn´t there anyone in your team who plays the eventide live and can answer us ?!

    • #135222
      krcassid
      Member

      Funny, I come here a year later looking for same answers and it appears there are none.  I can distill this issue further yet.  The  (front panel bypass) bypassed signal is significantly louder (I would say 5 dB) than the unbypassed signal  on every preset.   The amount by which this volume changes is dicated by the global wet mix.  Set the global wet/ dry to 0 and there is no volume change.  Set it to 100 and there is a big volume jump, simply by hitting bypass.  I have messed with this issue for several years to no avail.  The problem is, you can't bump up the levels of the presets (only down) so you can't raise their levels to equal the bypassed signal.  I think this is simply a major design flaw that has never been addressed.  Changing the global levels changes both the bypassed & unbypassed signals so there is no help there.  Using relay bypass should solve but that only works for XLR I/O and I'm using unbalanced in a rack full of guitar gear.  Bottom line: if you bypass your presets (or blocks), your going to get a BIG bump in level.  How much depends on your global wet/ dry setting.  Effectively, unless, I am missing something, this renders the Eclipse useless in a live setting unless you use it unbypassed at all times (IE it your only device).  VERY frustrating… 

      Still no answers here?

    • #135225
      i.ak
      Member

      Using balanced XLR connections does not solve the issue. Makes it a tad better though.

    • #135305
      MrClean
      Participant

      the best way to use the eclipse in a live guitar rig is with a a parallel mixer. I use a radial mix plus in the FX loop of new Vox Ac30, but any amp with a series fx loop will do. Set the wet dry to 100 %, boost the analog outs by around 3 – 4 db, reduce the inputs by approx 15 db (depending on the amp loop). Use the output level in each preset to blend the eclipse with the "dry" signal in the fx loop, cheers 

    • #135306
      i.ak
      Member

      In principle this is the same methodology I am using with my current setup, but there are presets/blocks (such as modular delays) in which you cannot even the signal enough still.  Also, I do not recommend attenuating the input signal(s) before AD-conversion too much.

    • #150679
      dmh17fx
      Member

      Did this ever get fixed?

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