H90 General Modulation Algorithm Questions

[Gunnmeet]

Hi, some general questions for Eventide staff regarding H90 modulation algorithms.  I love the algorithms but the number of options are intimidating.  If there is already a video that explains most of this from the Modfactor days, please post a link.

1) Does the ADSR modulation source work well for some effect types when playing guitar?  Or, is that modulation source primarily included for synth/key players?

2) For the 4 chorus types: Liquid, Organic, Shimmer, Classic, which one is intended to be closest to 80’s rack chorus?

3) Do all intensity/mix parameters go from 0-100% or are there are subset that always have some % of effect mixed in?  I think Instant Phaser and Flanger are effected signal only at 0% setting, but are those the only exceptions correct?

4) For phaser/flanger, the manual says intensity is ‘effect level’.  Is this still wet/dry mix?

4) When ‘manual’ is set as the modulation source for both the primary and secondary modulation, I know speed value doesn’t matter on the primary oscillator.  Depth still matters, correct?  What about on the secondary oscillator?

5) Are there any particular tricks or hacks for setting the primary and secondary modulation sources?  There are so many combinations, I am wondering if I am missing a particularly interesting combination (whether in general or on specific algorithms).

Thanks!

[brock]

There’s a lot to unpack here.  Not a staff member, but maybe I can help give Eventide a little head start.  I’ve done enough forum research on these same topics to link a few of the results below.

1. ADSR will work with guitar, sometimes better due to the sharp attack.  It has a fixed shape of short durations for each stage.  It does need fine-tuning of Sensitivity for the best results.  Try it on some type of deep effect to get a feel for it.
2. IMO, the 5th: TriceraChorus.  But also see the descriptions in the ‘link-of-links’ below.
3. The Instant rack FX do have unique Mix ranges, but also see discussions in the ‘link-of-links’ below.
4. Specific answers found in the ‘link-of-links’ below.

H90 Questions ‘Link-Of-Links’

The ‘other’ 4). and 5). – These almost need their own dedicated reply, because you’re right: there are many combinations to cover.  I’ll try to expand with more specifics later on.

• A good place to start is to set Depth & Depth Mod to median values.  If Speed is set fairly low, then dial the Mod Rate multiplier higher.  Speed fast, Mod Rate low.  It’ll be easier to hear the effects of each on the modulation, and tweak it from there.
• It also helps to start out with a predictable Shape & Mod Source (Sine, Triangle).  One method I use is to map the [P] HotKnob to Shape, then the [A] HotKnob to Mod Source.  Makes short work of trying out all of the possible combinations.
• Always map the Manual parameter to an EXP pedal (if possible), whether it’s in current use or not.  That way, it’s always active when Manual is selected for Shape and/or Mod Source.  In some effects, it’s better to ‘reverse-map’ the Manual parameter from 100-0.

[brock]

Gunnmeet wrote:

… There are so many combinations, I am wondering if I am missing a particularly interesting combination (whether in general or on specific algorithms)…

A couple more:

The Brake / Speed Performance parameter in combination with primary & secondary modulation.  SLOW drops it to 1/8 of the value shown as ‘ Slow x’.  Its position is saved as part of the Preset.  And it’s really useful with two Modulation effects – Series or Parallel – each having their own Fast/Slow toggle.

Since the secondary modulations are truly amplitude & frequency modulations, very high values in Speed, Speed Mod, Mod Rate get you into ringmod- & synth-type effects.  Use the Depth / Depth Mod controls to ‘tune’ & modify the results.  That applies in any similarly configured modulation type.

More nuanced effects with Speed, Speed Mod, Mod Rate at the lower ends, especially adding in Brake / Speed.  Use this tactic for ‘motionless’ modulations, pushing the LFO cycling well into the background.

[joecozzi]

Gunnmeet wrote:

2) For the 4 chorus types: Liquid, Organic, Shimmer, Classic, which one is intended to be closest to 80’s rack chorus?

Here’s a great thread going into depth with the Chorus modes from the engineer that designed it: https://www.eventideaudio.com/forums/topic/modfactor-fx-types-definitions

As Brock mentioned, I also recommend the newer TriceraChorus algorithm for what you’re after. The effect can give you analog-style choruses or Tri-stereo chorus like the popular rack units from that era. The factory presets are fantastic.

[Gunnmeet]

Brock & Joe, thank you very much for the replies.  I’ll pore through your info and the links, appreciate the help!  TriceraChorus indeed sounds phenomenally good. The multiple chorus lines in TriceraChorus really ‘smooth out’ the warbles and make it incredibly lush.

I hadn’t considered running 2 different modulation effects in parallel or series.  There goes my 4th of July weekend 🙂  Only 250 years to go from dumping tea in a harbor to whining about too many algorithm options!!  We are indeed blessed.

[brock]

Gunnmeet wrote:

… I hadn’t considered running 2 different modulation effects in parallel or series.  There goes my 4th of July weekend 🙂…

Not sure if this is going to make or break those BBQ plans, but I’ll provide the propane tank.

63 List PhaseFlange Sync

[apalazzolo]

Thanks for the very helpful questions and answers guys!

May I hop in with a pedestrian question?

I’ve noticed that many of the ModFactor factory presets have the secondary LFO depth and speed parameters set to “1”.  Some, of course, set these to “0”.

While the difference seems negligible, I have to believe it’s not.  I have to believe there is more than meets the eye there and, thus, that “1” makes all the difference for some reason.

Any thoughts on that?  Thanks!

 

[Gunnmeet]

Quick update: I went ‘all-in’ and created an entirely new User List dedicated to only modulation effects.  Of course, I named it ModFactor. I then proceeded to save a representative preset from each modulation algorithm in the ‘preset A’ slot of every 7th program in the ‘ModFactor’ user list.  All preset B slots were left in the ‘thru’ utility algorithm so I could focus on modulation only. The intervening 6 program slots were left open so I could save interesting combinations of primary and secondary modulation whenever I stumbled across them. Or, the open programs may be used for series/parallel modulation in A and B preset slots – once I venture that far.

Just thought I would share in case there are other H90 users who did not grow up on the ModFactor, H9, or another preceding Eventide product.  I’ve found this to be a nice way to keep sounds simple and just tweak & listen without trying to rely on a relatively weak theoretical understanding of what’s happening under the hood.

 

[Hermetech]

That’s a cool way to do it. I’ve recently been doing something similar. I have a List called “All Algos In Order” where the first 68 Programs each contain just Preset A of a single algorithm, in the order in which they are listed in the manual. Preset B is “Thru”. I am currently about half way through, trying to make a nice subtle preset that works with my guitar, with simple routing. This is similar to how I used to do things on the H9. Then if I want to play around, change the routing, add effect B etc., I have a different List that I can copy and paste to of “current” sounds I am actually using in my work. The “All Algos In Order” List gives me a perfect starting place for every algorithm.

It’s all fairly easy to do with the H90 Control app on my PC, although I do wish they’d make a phone Bluetooth version so I didn’t have to deal with the USB ground loop hum when the H90’s plugged into the computer. I also wish you could Drag & Drop Programs around in a List. The only problem with my current scheme is that when they add a new algorithm, I’m going to have to shift everything around somehow to keep the correct order, and without Drag & Drop support, it might take forever. 😉

Anyway, interesting to hear how others are doing their patch management!

[Author]

Posts