H9000 & Latency Correction in Cubase

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    • #116358
      wvought
      Participant

      For those who, like me, use the H9000 in conjunction with Cubase, how are you correcting for latency?

      In the Cubase manual it states there is a way to ping an outboard effect to determine its latency, after which Cubase will automatically correct the timing to  adjust for latency.

      But it also states the outboard effect must be set up as a “MIDI device” in order to have this “ping” option. Yet Greg Ondo, who has made YouTube videos on this subject, does not mention this requirement. Anyway, I have been unable to make heads or tails of the MIDI device thingy, nor have I been able to adjust for latency by following Greg Ondo’s directions.

      I’m using W10 and an RME Fireface UFX audio interface, and am routing signal from Cubase to the H9000 (and back to Cubase again) via ADAT, using RME’s TotalMix software.

      Anyone? Thanks.

    • #157215
      John Baylies
      Moderator

      WRT the H9000, each FX Chain's latency is variable, and depends upon a few things: https://www.eventideaudio.com/support/faq/whats-latency

      We will be implementing a "DAW mode" which will make each FX Chain's latency fixed, instead of variable, but I don't have a timeline for that yet.

      For now, a workaround would be to start with an algorithm in the 4th row of each FX Chain, and work upwards. This way the FX Chain's latency will be less variable than if you start with an algorithm in the 1st row and work downwards.

    • #157216
      wvought
      Participant

      The DAW mode would be helpful. At least then I could manually correct for latency and know that it was spot on.

      Thanks.

    • #157217
      John Baylies
      Moderator

      What happens when you click the 'ping' button mentioned in the video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=189&v=H-N-9AGlrXk&feature=youtu.be

    • #157220
      joeydego
      Participant

      What is precluding you from simply setting the H9000 up as a midi device? Seems like that’s how Cubase handles this. I’m surprised there isn’t a plugin that does this. In Studio One, there’s a plugin that pings and adjusts automatically for latency. Works great. 

    • #157224
      joeydego
      Participant

      Also even if for nothing other than exercise in the interest of learning, it’s probably a good idea to learn how to set up a midi device. Sooner or later, you’ll come across something you’ll want to use that needs to be set up. This too was an issue I had that I needed to learn.

    • #157231
      wvought
      Participant

      Yup.

    • #157218
      wvought
      Participant
      John Baylies wrote:

      What happens when you click the ‘ping’ button mentioned in the video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=189&v=H-N-9AGlrXk&feature=youtu.be

      Things look a bit different in Cubase 11 than they did in that video. The ping function is a larger button that reads Measure Delay. When I click it, it turns white for about 1 second, but after this the delay reading does not change. It still says 0.00ms.

      My guess is that this means I am not actually getting a signal into and back out of the H9000, but I followed Ondo’s directions.

      My understanding is that this method completely bypasses TotalMix. The signal flow is Cubase out to ADAT > H9000 > ADAT > Cubase. So IOW it doesn’t matter what my TotalMix settings are….Cubase has assumed control of the designated ADAT ports, and TotalMix plays no part in the process. So I don’t understand why signal would not be going through the H9000.

       

    • #157221
      wvought
      Participant
      joeydego wrote:

      What is precluding you from simply setting the H9000 up as a midi device?

      Probably nothing other than my own inability to understand the process of setting up a MIDI device in Cubase. I attempted to do this months ago, but got nowhere.

      And of course the fact that Greg Ondo is able to adjust for latency without going through the trouble of setting up the external effect as a MIDI device. The method shown in his video is straightforward and works well (for him), so I’ve been trying to get that to work for me.

      On page 37 of the Cubase Pro 11 Operation Manual, under the heading Setting up External Effects, it states:

      “Delay compensation is only applied for the effect when you use MIDI devices.” 

      But Greg Ondo would beg to differ.

      If I get time I’ll take another look at setting up a MIDI device. But if Eventide ever gets the aforementioned DAW mode working, that would do an end run around the whole issue.

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    • #157223
      joeydego
      Participant
      wvought wrote:
      joeydego wrote:

      What is precluding you from simply setting the H9000 up as a midi device?

      Probably nothing other than my own inability to understand the process of setting up a MIDI device in Cubase. I attempted to do this months ago, but got nowhere.

      And of course the fact that Greg Ondo is able to adjust for latency without going through the trouble of setting up the external effect as a MIDI device. The method shown in his video is straightforward and works well (for him), so I’ve been trying to get that to work for me.

      On page 37 of the Cubase Pro 11 Operation Manual, under the heading Setting up External Effects, it states:

      Show More...

      “Delay compensation is only applied for the effect when you use MIDI devices.” 

      But Greg Ondo would beg to differ.

      If I get time I’ll take another look at setting up a MIDI device. But if Eventide ever gets the aforementioned DAW mode working, that would do an end run around the whole issue.

      Just remember once daw mode is introduced you still need to factor in the latency introduced by the interface. I learned this was an issue when pipeline returned a negative number and asked how that can be possible.

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    • #158216
      Matthias Adloff
      Participant
      wvought wrote:

      On page 37 of the Cubase Pro 11 Operation Manual, under the heading Setting up External Effects, it states:

      “Delay compensation is only applied for the effect when you use MIDI devices.” 

      But Greg Ondo would beg to differ.

      Greg is right. You don’t need to set up a MIDI device for full latency compensation.

      First you need to measure the latency in Cubase/Nuendo. Set all Algorithms to BYPASS, hit measure and you’re fine to go. It does not work reliably (or does not work at all) with an algorithm loaded. The BYPASS will not change the latency except for algorithms that introduce pre-listening, but okay, only a few old mastering plugins in the H9000 use pre-listening. Today in 2021 with all those superior dynamic processing plugins, you will not need those anyways.

      Second select the external FX you just created as an insert.

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      That’s all. The H9000 will be in sync. The measuring from Cubase/Nuendo is obviously sample accurate. Please see the screenshot attached: The upper track is the original file, the second is a copy with “Render in place” performed and an H9000 delay inserted. As you can see, it’s perfect. The lower level is introduced by the effect itself, so please ignore that.

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