H9000 (OS 1.1) – DAW Automation, via Midi Controller, via Ableton

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    • #115251
      ssgrfk
      Participant

      hello

      i just installed the H9000 OS Beta 1.1 and am trying to get certain parameters of algorithms accessable / automated via my DAW and a USB Midi Controller (Ableton in this example)

      Previously i would connect my USB midi controller to the front USB socket of the H9000 and with the new OS Beta 1.1 right click on a parameter and edit the MAPPING options.

      this is working fine.

      Im now trying to achieve the same result but via Ableton live, so that i can record the midi control data as automation data and later edit that.

      i am able to successfully send midi CC data to the H9000 via a midi contro change envelope in an ableton clip but im not sure how to go about assigning a fader of the USB controller to control other midi control data, for the purposes of recording as ive outlined above…

      i realise this might be more of an Ableton question but if anyone has any suggestions, pls let me know.

      thanks

    • #151605
      ssgrfk
      Participant

      Hello

      i manged to get this happening via a Max4Live plugin called ControlChange8 that you can download here..

      http://www.roberthenke.com/technology/m4l.html

      that thing gives me 8 knobs which send CC data via numbered parameters that i can map into the H9000’s parameters. it does the job

      one thing, one bug perhaps, if i draw automation data / curves etc into Ableton, this data is ignored, it doesnt play back / change mapped paramters in the H9000.

      If i record myself physically editing the mapped parameters via a USB midi controller plugged into live and play back that data, things work as you would expect..

      thx

    • #151607
      ssgrfk
      Participant

      Additonal to my previous response, when i do playback any automated midi CC via this Max4Live device in Ableton, Emote (as standalone app) looses connection to the H9000.. after a second of two of playback. Midi CC automation continues to work via Ableton though.

    • #151621
      ssgrfk
      Participant

      hello

      after further testing, it appears as though any midi cc data sent via automation via Ableton can crash Emote and stop the H9000 display from refreshing / updating for a few seconds in the following circumstances – draw an automation “curve” or line between 2 points, where point one is value X and point two is value Y and some time passes between these two points. playback of this = Emote crash / H9000 screen pause.

      but automation data that is simply stepped between points without any time in between moving from values does work as you would expect. so, jumping from value X to Y instantly, then remaining static for time, then jumping from Y to Z..  ie. aliased / stepped automation curve. rather than a smooth curve..

      if anyone else is having issues or success with H9000 params automatable via DAW and Ableton i would love to hear from you

      thanks

       

      • #151622
        jbamberg
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        ssgrfk wrote:

        hello

        after further testing, it appears as though any midi cc data sent via automation via Ableton can crash Emote and stop the H9000 display from refreshing / updating for a few seconds in the following circumstances – draw an automation "curve" or line between 2 points, where point one is value X and point two is value Y and some time passes between these two points. playback of this = Emote crash / H9000 screen pause.

        but automation data that is simply stepped between points without any time in between moving from values does work as you would expect. so, jumping from value X to Y instantly, then remaining static for time, then jumping from Y to Z..  ie. aliased / stepped automation curve. rather than a smooth curve..

        It sounds like messages are getting backed up somewhere.  It is possible that the front panel UI cannot keep up with the changes.  We will look into this.  Does this slowdown happen if emote is not connected?

         

    • #151635
      ssgrfk
      Participant

      Hello

      the slowdown occurs regardless of Emote connectivity. 

      the slowdown only occurs with non stepped / non recorded automation data..  so, record some automation via a knob turn, etc. this plays back fine.

      draw in data, as described above, this causes it to slow down and misbehave

      thanks

      • #151934
        jfirlik
        Moderator
        Eventide Staff
        ssgrfk wrote:

        Hello

        the slowdown occurs regardless of Emote connectivity. 

        the slowdown only occurs with non stepped / non recorded automation data..  so, record some automation via a knob turn, etc. this plays back fine.

        draw in data, as described above, this causes it to slow down and misbehave

        thanks

        My guess is that the DAW is simply sending more messages than the UI can keep up with, if it works with recorded data but not with the drawn-in data.  The resolution of the pencil tool/curve interpolation in the DAW may be higher than what is actually needed to actually produce a smooth effect in the audio, so reducing the amount of automation points might be a solution.  Ableton 9 seems to have a hidden feature which allows you to "thin" the automation data to produce less points in between the breakpoints, but I don't know much about it, you may have better luck on the Ableton forums.

        vanceg wrote:

        Show More...

        Perhaps someday automation will be available directly from the Emote plugin. 

        The 1.1 update introduced automation natively to the Emote plug-in.  You will need to map the parameters to Functions, and then the Functions are exposed as automatable parameters in the DAW automation lanes.  I can't say for sure that the UI behavior will be better if the DAW is simply sending too many events, but this does use an entirely different control protocol from MIDI, so it may be worth a shot and seeing if it helps.

        Show Less...
    • #151852
      ssgrfk
      Participant

      hello again

      just wondering if any other users are successfully using a DAW to automate parameters of algorithms in side the H9000.. if so, i’d love to hear how you’re doing it. thanks!

    • #151910
      vanceg
      Participant

      I have only automated a few parameters at a time this way.  I use a method very similar to yours.  I haven’t run into the MIDI crashing issue you mention, perhaps becuase I’m only sending a little bit of MIDI data.  Perhaps someday automation will be available directly from the Emote plugin. 

    • #152699
      ssgrfk
      Participant

      Aha! using the plugin and the FX:1-4 Function Mappings totally solves my problems. excllent, thanks 🙂

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