October 23, 2023 at 12:21 pm #175092rskaudioParticipant
Figured I would toss this in here for whenever the dev’s have a slow day…
A chain I’ve been using a lot is the Bouquet Delay to get the tone I want on a delay and then either Vintage or Digital Delay after it to get the actual delay time I need. It works fine but uses up two slots so it would be really lovely to have a Bouquet+ that has an additional clean delay for setting those longer throws in the same Algo. Bonus points for selectable Feedback paths (I.E. to the clean delay or the tonal one).
October 23, 2023 at 5:37 pm #175138
I’m not an Eventide employee, but I’ll have a look and see what I can do.
October 24, 2023 at 5:50 am #175153
Unfortunately these delay algorithms are in the 9000 range, which means I can’t download the VSIG to modify them. This is one for Eventide to fix. I’d have to remodel these from scratch, which would be quite time consuming. Sorry I can’t help more at this stage.
October 26, 2023 at 10:09 pm #175246
I’ve been reminded that there is a bucket brigade module in VSIG, so I’ll have a go at this, but it’s still going to be a tricky build.
October 30, 2023 at 4:24 pm #175298rskaudioParticipant
Thanks a lot for taking a look, I’ll dig in myself end of the month so happy to tag up on it.
November 13, 2023 at 2:07 am #175659
Yes agree, with that price tag, its very very annoying that not all algortihms are editable, this may decide whether I want to keep it in the long run
November 13, 2023 at 8:01 pm #175706
It’s a balancing act for Eventide on letting everyone see their secret sauce v tweaking by end users.
I don’t need to see what’s in the box, but having dsp blocks available for all of the protected algorithms like they have done with the bucket brigade model would be useful.
@rskaudio, I’ve started to look into this. Do you need the Bouquet Delay performance controls? And what is the maximum delay time that you are chasing?
Could you drop me a message at https://godlike.com.au/index.php?id=contact
I’ll email you back, and it would be good if you could email me some of your chains as examples, so that I can build the range into the combined algorithm. It won’t be exactly the same because I can’t use the Vintage or Digital delay algorithms for the clean path, but I can build a clean delay line pretty easily, and/or possibly extend the BBD delay time. Multiple feedback paths is reasonably easy.
The tricky thing with this one is getting the BBD parameters correct to match the Bouquet Delay as presented in the factory defaults.
November 14, 2023 at 11:55 am #175710
They can see all that secret software sauce tweaking, in Native Instruments Reaktor 6 – nothing is hidden there 🙂
they are basically the same principle.
i dont think other companies would dare to make a similar hardware effect as H9000 – because its very expensive and time consuming to make them as a hardware effect.
But I agree, unlock dsp blocks for all algorithms
I hope they dont lock algorithms for cycling 74 RNBO, then im out
November 14, 2023 at 1:37 pm #175714jbambergModeratorEventide Staff
It is our plan to release the DSP modules for H9000/Vsig users when we’re ready to do so. Sometimes we won’t release them immediately, generally because we want to make sure they are reasonably straightforward to understand, i.e. they have a simple interface and sufficient documentation.
For RNBO, you are obviously free to share your patcher with other users who have Max/RNBO. However, you can’t export a RNBO algorithm from the H9000 into Vsig, because the RNBO system doesn’t use the Eventide DSP modules, it uses the Cycling ’74 RNBO objects instead. You can export the compiled algorithm from emote as a .9ka file, and share that with other H9000 users.
November 20, 2023 at 4:52 pm #175958studionebulaParticipant
I completely understand Eventide protecting their intellectual property by not providing completely open modules for all of their effects. Also, at an educated guess, many of the H9000 modules don’t exist as Vsig patches but instead as C/C++ source code.
That said, I’m very much looking forward to Vsig modules containing the new H9000 effects. I have some custom long-delay patches already running in my H9000 and I would love to add the character of the Head Space or Bouquet Delay effects to them.
November 21, 2023 at 2:11 pm #175984
I certainly don’t hope they are made in C/C++ source code, i hope they are made in machinecode assembly language, because that is the ultimate programming language – it requires less memory and execution time etc. ´than all other programming language.
Ok, but i was not specific talking about ´completely open the modules, I was talking about open them so, ex. Bouquet Delay, can be edited to true stereo, and such things, unlike many algorithms which are actually in mono, notice the “add” for input left and right.
here are some examples:
Swept Band Delay
welcome to correct me if im wrong 🙂
it’s not criticism, but to make it better 🙂
November 22, 2023 at 1:27 am #176020
Assembly is not inherently faster than compiled C++ code, and in fact will likely be slower due to the difficulties in optimizing assembly compared to C++. It will also make the code less portable, and far more difficult to maintain. If C++ is written and optimized properly it will run as fast as assembly and with the same efficiency.
Apart from device boot, and boot loader utilities, I am not aware of anyone coding digital effects in assembly for any hardware effects devices.
I’m working on a true stereo bucket brigade delay at the moment, but there is a lot of work involved, even with the BBD block availability in VSIG, and most of my algorithms available at https://godlike.com.au/index.php?id=420 (including delay algorithms) are true stereo as opposed to summed to mono. Sometimes stereo summing makes sense, especially for trigger/side chain signals, or where you are trying to emulate certain bits of hardware. It’s also not uncommon for a mono signal to be the source for reverb algorithms (especially the diffusion and ambience section), because if you look at large spaces in particular, any stereo source can be treated as mono because the separation of left and right in the source is very narrow compared to the size of the space. In reverb algorithms, the early reflection section is often stereo, with ambience using a summed signal as a source. This is due not only to delocalization of the sound in a real space, but also for processing requirements.
The only reverb algorithm that I know of that preserves stereo imaging is the dual mini verb algorithm on the KSP8. As Kurzweil state “With stereo material, any panning or image placement can be maintained, even in the reverb tails! This is pretty unusual behavior for a reverb, since even real halls will rapidly delocalize acoustic images in the reverberation. Since maintaining image placement in the reverberation is so unusual, you will have to carefully consider whether it is appropriate for your particular situation”
November 22, 2023 at 6:17 am #176023
In short – Its all about how good you are to program in assembly language, all other programing language have to “translate” to Assembly language and then to binary.
All other programing language is just a more easy way to program – they have to “translate” to Assembly language which takes time to do.
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